Trying to drain tank to change immersion heater element

[immersionheaternightmares]

Hi,

I am trying to drain my tank so that I can change my immersion heater element (the lower one in the picture).

I have viewed almost every video/resource i can find on this and every single one mentions a drain off valve that you can attach a hose to that allows you to drain the water from the tank (see image "tank2bottom.jpg for image of the tank). In the bottom left of that image you will see a pipe that has a tag on it labelled (drain off valve) - You can see a closer picture of this in image "drainvalve2.jpg"

The drain off valve looks to have a "tap" that should turn on the top but on closer inspection (and through many different methods) this does not seem to turn and actually seems to be part of the whole metal junction from what i can tell. (unless over time it has fused to become one piece of metal?) - i have tried WD40 to loosen it but with no luck. - Coming out of the bottom of this junction is just the end of a bolt (screw) - i assume the bolt goes all the way through the junction?.

Every video/image i can find of one of these drain off valves or of someone emptying there water tank, the drain off valve always seems to have a nozzle from which you would attach a hose but this junction labelled "drain off valve" does not seem to have this. (Is this a different type of drain off valve or has it been incorrectly labelled?) - I have looked all over this cupboard/tank and there is nowhere else that could be even remotely considered a drain off valve (and as i said, this part has a label hanging from it saying "drain off valve")

Any help on how this type of "drain off valve" works would be appreciated. or if you can let me know if its even possible to drain the tank using this "drain off valve" that i have. (please note, as far as im aware the whole system was installed in 1990 and none of it has been changed).

The only other option i have is to remove the cap/plug where the top immersion heater element would go (if i had one) and siphon the water out? however, i assume the water in the tank is above this level so as soon as i open it water will come pouring out so thats a no go i assume?

Any help/advice would be appreciated and please ask for any information/pictures you need to assist.

(Just to note: i have spoken/explained this over the phone to a plumber and he has said that if there is not a drain off valve then it would require much more work to syphon it and would cost alot and unfortunately i cannot afford anything right now (id have much rathered get someone in to do it but its just not possible at the moment money wise) which is why im trying this myself - im very confident that if i can drain the tank then i could do the rest of the work on my own). Its been 2 months without hot water now so id really love a hot shower before winter sets in fully

Many thanks in advance.

 

[piglet11]

That doesn't look like a drain cock.
Yes, a drain cock does have a hose tail and has a square spindle that you can turn with a spanner or a purpose made key, sometimes called a utility box key.
A bit of guesswork here, but in your second image on the righthand side of the tank looks like the 28-mm feed to the cylinder from the tank above.
This is normally where the drain cock should be.
On mine, it is in the elbow where the pipe connects to the cylinder.
The are many types of draincock, soldered or compression and are lettered type A, type B.
The difference is one leaks when you open it, the other doesn't.
Type B has 'O' rings on the spindle.
Both have a small rubber washer like a tap washer.
Don't try too much force on any seized spindles - it will end in tears.
Certainly don't put any stress on the connections at the cylinder surface.
I think you will have to fit a proper drain cock at some stage.
You could fit one in the 28-mm pipe as low down as possible using a reducing 28x28x15-mm or 1/2" BSP at the 15-mm position.
In the time being, to drain the cylinder, you can use the fitting in your first image by undoing one of the compression joints.
You will need to close the red handled gate valve in image 3 to isolate the tank.
These valves often seize through lack of use.
Don't use too much force on it or it will shear off, then you are in more trouble.
Yes, the water level will be above the top immersion heater.
You could drain enough from the fitting in image 1 to remove the top heater and siphon out.
Where does that fitting on the right go?
Check that it doesn't have a drain point somewhere else.
Your major problem might be getting either of the heaters out as they often seize.
Use a decent immersion heater box spanner and VERY CAREFULLY apply force
I would be really surprised if there isn't a drain valve somewhere.
Have a good look round before you start.
If there isn't one, don't use that plumber again.
Good luck

 

[immersionheaternightmares]

That doesn't look like a drain cock.
Yes, a drain cock does have a hose tail and has a square spindle that you can turn with a spanner or a purpose made key, sometimes called a utility box key.
A bit of guesswork here, but in your second image on the righthand side of the tank looks like the 28-mm feed to the cylinder from the tank above.
This is normally where the drain cock should be.
On mine, it is in the elbow where the pipe connects to the cylinder.
The are many types of draincock, soldered or compression and are lettered type A, type B.
The difference is one leaks when you open it, the other doesn't.
Type B has 'O' rings on the spindle.
Both have a small rubber washer like a tap washer.
Don't try too much force on any seized spindles - it will end in tears.
Certainly don't put any stress on the connections at the cylinder surface.
I think you will have to fit a proper drain cock at some stage.
You could fit one in the 28-mm pipe as low down as possible using a reducing 28x28x15-mm or 1/2" BSP at the 15-mm position.
In the time being, to drain the cylinder, you can use the fitting in your first image by undoing one of the compression joints.
You will need to close the red handled gate valve in image 3 to isolate the tank.
These valves often seize through lack of use.
Don't use too much force on it or it will shear off, then you are in more trouble.
Yes, the water level will be above the top immersion heater.
You could drain enough from the fitting in image 1 to remove the top heater and siphon out.
Where does that fitting on the right go?
Check that it doesn't have a drain point somewhere else.
Your major problem might be getting either of the heaters out as they often seize.
Use a decent immersion heater box spanner and VERY CAREFULLY apply force
I would be really surprised if there isn't a drain valve somewhere.
Have a good look round before you start.
If there isn't one, don't use that plumber again.
Good luck

Hey, really appreciate the detailed response. I’ve not had a chance to look into the suggestions yet but just wanted to say thanks For taking the time to help!

 

[Dekzion]

That's a puzzler! A hot water tank just has cold coming in from the storage tank and the top connection goes to your hot taps, so when you open the tap it comes out due to gravity . What's that connection on the bottom left doing? where does it go to ? Why would you want to tap into luke warm water? someone has had some crazy idea there because that's where the drain cock should be. Follow where it goes because that will drain the tank . I'd get a spanner on that valve head and see if it undoes, is there a ball valve inside so you can turn it off and disconnect the far side to put a hose on it? Love to be there to sort that out! I'd have a big wet n dry vacuum running next to me .
are you sure it's the element and not the thermostat gone?

 

[immersionheaternightmares]

First off thank you both for taking the time to reply, I really appreciate it.
Just thought I'd come back and update now that its fixed.

So i ended up having to get a plumber in (luckily i did because it ended up being a bit trickier that I thought).
So turns out the red valve handles were broken so those needed replaced (which meant the top tank needed to be syphoned out as the valves were broken shut).

The small valve thing turned out to be exactly that, a drain valve which drained to the overflow pipe on the side of the house (however over the years it appears that the drain valve had seized up so took a bit of "persuading" to get it to actually open. Plumber said its an old style of valve which he doesnt see much of these days but he knew exactly what he was doing with it).

So eventually both tanks were drained, red handled valves were changed, immersion heater and thermostat replaced (this was definitely the initial issue with the hot water) - although the immersion heater also took a bit of persuading to get it loose without damaging the tank.
Then refilled the tanks and we were good to go.

All in all, it probably took less than 2 hours but was definitely beyond my comfort zone to do with all the issues so im glad i finally ended up getting someone in. Although I would say, if it had been a newer system i think I mightve been able to give it a better go.

So thats the story, 2 months without hot water finally ended just in time for it getting colder and also a few lessons learned.
Thanks again folks!