Boiler Mate issues

[MarineBob]

Years back I installed a Boilermate to provide hot water with my boiler. (Baseboard hot water). One of best choices I ever made. Twice I have changed out the digital controller because it was obviously messed up…..buzzing, error codes. Now I have a new issue. The controller seems fine, no errors and it seems to sort of work. Let me explain. We will go turn on the hot water and its only luke warm. If I cycle the power to the controller it appears to turn on the circulator as it should and runs until the set point for the tank is reached…125 f. If the circulator has been on for a bit, as described, then it turns off properly, if we draw more hot water, say 10-15 minutes later, the circulator won’t start. Flip off the power, and it will start only this time, having been off for only 10-15 minutes it will only run for maybe 15 seconds? Not enough to heat the tank to its temperature set point. Leave it alone for an hour or two, then it seems to work fine. One more symptom. When the circulator starts as it should, lots of gurgling and chugging for 5-10 seconds then it calms down. Never did that before. My thoughts: Motor ( circ) not up to snuff? Its 20 odd years old. But it seems to run fine once its going. Number two, this motor has a run capacitor. I am not an electric guy so I don’t really understand why a run capacitor is in the circuit. You can get a Taco for $65 or what I assume is more or less adequate generic replacement for $10, two wire hook up. Its a 5mfd 90 deg c rated unit. Some generics are slightly lower temp but for <$10, seems worth a shot. Anyway, long story and any thoughts or related experiences would be welcomed. One last thought….the thermocouple is sort of stuck in its tube, the plastic nut just crumbled and I did not want to take the time to work that issue. A rep at Taco told me its a 1/8-27 pipe, if my memory is right. I got a tap that matches the new plastic nut so I’m not too concerned about gettng a new one in place…..My point here is should an old TC have any impact on the described problem

 

[MarineBob]

Follow up. Tried a new capacitor with no different result. FWIW, new cap reads right at 5 mfd as is specified, old one 4.6 which I have no idea if that's good enough, close enough for a small motor run cap. Anyway, no change. So next move, tackle the thermocouple whose plastic jam nut crumbled in its fitting and a bugger to get out. Having the new TC I figured I'd cut the wire and figure out how to get the old stuff out. The wire is jammed into the hole with the remnants of the plastic jam nut. Problem is getting at it, underneath the bottom of the boiler mate. As I started digging it out I found the problem. The thermocouple tube is full of water so its shot. Bottom line, time for a new water heater. This boiler mate lasted 22-23 years which I guess is a good life for these tanks. Maybe this post will help someone in the future. One moral, if you ever change out the controller, change the thermocouple too, even if it doesn't seem to be necessary

 

[Shaggy]

Follow up. Tried a new capacitor with no different result. FWIW, new cap reads right at 5 mfd as is specified, old one 4.6 which I have no idea if that's good enough, close enough for a small motor run cap. Anyway, no change. So next move, tackle the thermocouple whose plastic jam nut crumbled in its fitting and a bugger to get out. Having the new TC I figured I'd cut the wire and figure out how to get the old stuff out. The wire is jammed into the hole with the remnants of the plastic jam nut. Problem is getting at it, underneath the bottom of the boiler mate. As I started digging it out I found the problem. The thermocouple tube is full of water so its shot. Bottom line, time for a new water heater. This boiler mate lasted 22-23 years which I guess is a good life for these tanks. Maybe this post will help someone in the future. One moral, if you ever change out the controller, change the thermocouple too, even if it doesn't seem to be necessary

Hey Bob, just wanted to say thanks for the detailed follow-up, it’s super helpful. That bit about the thermocouple being full of water is something I wouldn’t have thought to check. Sounds like you got a good run out of that unit. Did you end up going with another Boiler Mate, or try something different for the replacement? Curious how it’s working out.

 

[MarineBob]

Hey Bob, just wanted to say thanks for the detailed follow-up, it’s super helpful. That bit about the thermocouple being full of water is something I wouldn’t have thought to check. Sounds like you got a good run out of that unit. Did you end up going with another Boiler Mate, or try something different for the replacement? Curious how it’s working out.

I found a guy who works independently for a fair price so I gave him a call to see what he could do for me. He said a lot of people were using HTP indirect heaters so I went with one of those rather than a new Boiler Mate. Price might be a bit better but its 45 vs 41 gal and simple wiring although it needs its own zone controller. But I got to think there is really nothing to fail on the HTP….all there really is the TC in the side of the tank. Seems odd it takes 1” connections so a bit different. I’m not sure but I think Boiler Mate may use the separate controller approach also. Anyway seems to do the job and supposedly only loses a half degree per hour with the insulation.

 

[Shaggy]

I found a guy who works independently for a fair price so I gave him a call to see what he could do for me. He said a lot of people were using HTP indirect heaters so I went with one of those rather than a new Boiler Mate. Price might be a bit better but its 45 vs 41 gal and simple wiring although it needs its own zone controller. But I got to think there is really nothing to fail on the HTP….all there really is the TC in the side of the tank. Seems odd it takes 1” connections so a bit different. I’m not sure but I think Boiler Mate may use the separate controller approach also. Anyway seems to do the job and supposedly only loses a half degree per hour with the insulation.

Sounds like you made a solid choice switching to the HTP indirect heater, especially with fewer parts to worry about. Seems like it’s working well so far and holding temperature nicely. Just curious, how’s it performing after a few uses? No regrets, or everything running smoothly so far?

 

[MarineBob]

Ok for a couple days, then we’ve been away. See how it is when we go home

 

[Shaggy]

Ok for a couple days, then we’ve been away. See how it is when we go home

Cool. Let us know how its going.

 

[MarineBob]

Back from a few days vacationing. Tank is fine, but too hot. I believe I understand what is going on. The boiler feed has a a sweat check which is (was) necessary with the boiler mate. For those not familiar, the sweat check is needed on a hot water boiler system to prevent the water from the boiler to simply keep thermally circulating through the zone. Last spring, my valve was sticking and it was like the heat was always on. Now, with the new install of the hot water tank, the valve seems to be messed up. ( Won't open so its now in the manual open position) The result: the boiler water just keeps circulating through the tank pushing the water to about 140 deg, too hot. Anyway, this afternoon's project will be to take the valve apart. It is as simple as can be and ought to be fixable if its gunked up. We'll see. Good part is its at the high spot in the boiler feed line so not much drain is needed. One other issue. The new circulator pump is a Taco 007e. Supposedly super high efficiency with flashing lights and a PCB...... What ever happened to simple. First question that on line says no issue...with this small pump, it is enough umph to over come the weight in the check valve? On line answers say no issue. And then it is unclear if the pump comes with its own check valve. There is some reference that says they all do , other comments say for the check valve, you need to have 007e-IFC (internal flow check. ) Oh well, I keep learning. Will update later.

 

[MarineBob]

Here's the bottom line. Got my HTP tank working to a T as it were. Problem was with the SwetChek valve. I took it apart and it seemed fine but apparently after 20 years or so, there was a bit of a sticky spot that I believe was preventing it from opening, resulting in having to manually open it and leave it open to get hot water. So I changed out the guts into the old housing and presto. But then with the hot water form the boiler migrating through this hot water tank, water got too hot. I suppose the lesson is this. If you get a HTP heater or something else with a TACO circulator, get the version with the check valve although that may still allow hot water to get to the pump. So make sure the SetChek is is in good shape.

 

[MarineBob]

One more update and a change to previous notes. If I were to start over with a storage type water heater I would use a SwetChek in the boiler supply line. I would put it up high in the loop, to make servicing easier in regard to draining if it needs to be opened up for servicing. And I would put it was close as reasonable to the boiler. Why have hot water sitting in the supply line?