Modern cars.

[Retired]

Hi,

Bron and I usually trade our car in for a brand new car once the car reaches three years old so we always have a car under warranty. We love our current car it being a Skoda Yeti 2.0L diesel SE L; it's three years old next April so I've been browsing the web but am finding it difficult to find a car we would like to replace the Yeti. the Yeti is no longer in production which is sad otherwise we would have not even had to think about this; the Yeti replacement the Karoq does nothing for me just looking like most modern cars and as I'm a member of a Skoda forum it's disturbing to find owners of a number of new Karoq's suffering "kangarooing" one already having had a new flywheel and clutch installed but the kangarooing persists? Our car is bought by us using our own money so a mistake could prove very costly indeed.

What a dilemma though; we like the Yeti so much we're considering keeping it; we could extend the warranty another two years but this is not through Skoda it's through an insurance company and to put it mildly Bron and I hate insurance companies so an extended warranty is not for us.

The biggest worry is modern cars are no longer just a means of transport; they are central mission control with all their electronics. Are cars now to be treated like washing machines; once a circuit board fails it's just as cheap to buy a new car as have the old car repaired? Our neighbour across the street recently suffered a front end shunt in his car resulting in very little bodywork damage but three air bags were activated; at £1,500 each the insurance company deemed it better to scrap an otherwise decent 6 year old low mileage car than have the car repaired?

Are cars now no longer regarded as transport but more like mobile phones with every must have gimmick added to really complicate them; the government bang on about protecting the planets resources but how many cars are being scrapped because they are now too costly to repair mostly down to failed electronics; still the government like this because they gain VAT on every new car sold so they can turn a blind eye to what is going on in fact the government never miss an opportunity to empty motorists pockets; a few years ago petrol cars were so bad that the government wanted everyone in diesel cars but now we have bought diesel these are now worse than petrol and diesel car owners are being punished? Electric cars are the way to go to save the planet; don't massive polluting power stations supply the electricity; the huge wind turbines eat up resources too. Why not use sea water for power after all H2O is a decent formula; hydrogen doesn't have the same energy as petrol or diesel but why make cars that will do 130mph when our UK top speed lmit is 70mph? Looking around at neighbours cars are cars now more of a status symbol than a means of reliable transport.

Our Yeti has so many electronics onboard that it virtually drives itself once the cruise control is activated; I just have to steer it; what would happen if cruise control was activated and the car was travelling at 70mph and the driver suffered an heart attack or stroke? We've bought SatNav and dash camera both these actually being electronic but highly useful; the dash cam is like having a police officer in the car during each journey it not only recording other drivers but importantly my driving too so being aware of the camera I behave whilst driving. It's just cost a friend £240 to have the heater blower repaired on his VW but the dealer is unable to sort out the parking radar fault so this is still out of action?

So many electronics now to distract drivers; touch screen media centres etc; complicated heater controls even heated seats all things built in to fail; switches on the steering wheel; tyre pressure sensors where an icon lights on the dash but when the tyres checked their pressures are perfect? Adblue adding further complications but meaning only £30 per year road tax; I'm now 71 and all Bron and I need is a very reliable but basic car for transport. Could there be a big market for such a car?

This morning I tried to turn on our TV; it refused to turn on but after breakfast I could concentrate on the problem; the TV was plugged in and the LED showed it had power; new batteries in the remote failed so I started playing around with the selection of remotes; our TV isn't smart but we do have it connected via Virgin Media cable and an Android with TP-Links; it proved to be the remote I use at fault; the remote Bron uses works perfectly so we don't yet need a new TV; I've gone on about complicated electronics but the picture below shows the remotes we've been using just to control our one TV set; the keypad to the right was actually an excellent buy costing only about £6 through eBay; this is brilliant for controlling the apps like YouTube.

The dilemma remains whether to buy another brand new car or keep the Yeti we love?

Just rambling on as usual.

Kind regards, Colin.

 

[Silentrunning]

Ramble on my friend. You are always interesting and educational as usual.

 

[Doghouse Riley]

I used to chage my car every three years, the last five we've had from new. I bought our first CRV when I took early retirement, in 1998. I traded it in for the present one in 2005. It's now only done 54,000 miles. I'd be daft to change it for change's sake. I've a gofing pal who' a motor mechanic. He comes and collects it each tear, services it, takes it for it's MOT and brings it back. It's till going strong and it's a nice car to drive.

i checked with the DVL the service history of the old CRV.
It last passed it's MOT in 2016, having done 134,000 miles!

 

[Retired]

Hi,

Thank you Silentrunning for your continuing encouragement; I try to be helpful.

Thanks also Doghouse; Bron and I are coming to the same conclusion; we've owned over the years brand new; Reliant Robin; Citroen 2CV; 9 x Nissan Micra's; 2 x Toyota Aygo's; Skoda Fabia Monte Carlo and currently our lovely Skoda Yeti. We can afford to change every two or three years but cars are now so alike each other and bristling with electronic gadgets that we don't need or want it makes sense to quit buying new cars now and like you hang onto the Yeti we now have and love.

The amount of depreciation in a new car as soon as it leaves the dealer will pay for many expensive repairs in future on the Yeti.

When we bought our new Skoda Fabia Monte Carlo in black over red we actually sat in a Skoda Roomster and Yeti but there being just Bron and I both these seemed rather big vehicles sitting in the showroom so we bought the Monte which looked wonderful and for two years enjoyed it; the Monte though had rubber band very low profile tyres and sports suspension; our cart roads and many traffic calming humps used to rattle our teeth as we drove around. The dealer invited us to a special VIP day and although the Monte was at the time only two years old we decided to visit the dealer quietly before the VIP day but the same week just to be nosy; once again we sat in a brand new Yeti in the showroom and we both liked it a great deal but thought perhaps running costs would be far higher than the Monte so I started to do homework on the web; I checked the web for value of our Monte which was a minimum £7,000 and having seen the price of the Yeti yes we could easily afford the Yeti so we decided to visit the VIP event to see what the deal would be; unfortunately Bron fell quite ill with a bad cold but still wanted me to attend the VIP day which I did.

As I entered the showroom it was like a fairground with lots of music playing together with a warm welcome and free refreshments; the deal on a new Skoda amounted to something like a £1,500 saving? This time being more streetwise I had visited "carwow" comparison website so I knew the best deal for miles around and I printed these off taking them with me.

Seated with the salesman in the corner of the showroom I was staring directly at the gorgeous black Yeti Bron and I had sat in and was keenly watching prospective customers also climbing in and out of it as we spoke; rather than waste both our time I explained I'd done my homework and produced the carwow prices handing the details over; the salesman remarked this makes a change from dancing around the handbags for a few pounds and excused himself to disappear from sight into the office; my deal was for over £2,000 discount at this time?

About ten minutes later the salesman reappeared with a smile on his face and said I think we can beat the prices I had quoted. You see this black Yeti; would you be interested if we knocked £3,500 off it and throw in paintwork/upholstery treatment; of course I would but depending on trade in value of our immaculate Monte sitting outside looking very pretty in the sunshine.

Another member of staff joined us to give a valuation on the Monte and we three went outside whilst the inspection was carried out; I already knew the minimum we would accept for the Monte and was quite open about this; a handshake made the deal and the paperwork was signed. We could collect the Yeti in a few days; the Yeti was a pre reg but with zero miles on its clock it had never been on the road. So this is how we ended up with the Yeti.

Out of interest the Yeti is the SE L with full leather; diesel 2.0L with Adblue meaning only £30 road tax; I was amazed to find the Yeti insurance to be cheaper and the Yeti easily does 60mpg compared to the Monte 40mpg; huge smile on our faces; you bet.

Kind regards, Colin.

 

[Silentrunning]

Colin, I think you and I are at the opposite ends of the spectrum when it comes to car ownership. Below is a picture of my 1950 Studebaker Champion that Was my daily driver from 1992 until I left Florida 2 years ago and sold it. I did all the maintenance on it and it ran fine when I sold it in 2016.

This is my 1993 F-250 Ford truck that I still drive today. It has made 3 trips to Florida this year hauling a 20 foot trailer full of our possessions and never gave us a bit of trouble. Again, I do all the maintenance on this vehicle.

I love working on my vehicles and do pamper them. I had a 1966 Chevrolet van that went over 250,000 miles and never had the engine touched. Isn’t it funny how we each find our enjoyment?

 

[Retired]

Hi,

Many thanks Doug for your highly interesting story and for the pictures.

Yes we are as you rightly say at the opposite ends of the spectrum regarding our cars but perhaps I can go some way to explain why?

I love your F-250 and can well understand you doing all the maintenance on it yourself which is a credit to you. I used to own my own garage business in my twenties and in those days a handful of spanners and sockets would see a car in pieces; absolutely no electronics even the flasher unit was a very basic bi-metal strip with contacts in a metal enclosure but fast forward to now when cars are like mission control with endless electronics; no way can I service a modern car at home; how many electronic items has your F-250 built into it? I think you'd be very surprised to try to service a modern car now Doug at home and yes I'm definitely at the other end of the spectrum and I definitely do not like it here; Bron and I are very aware just how expensive modern cars cost to repair especially when one of the electronic items fails; lots of these electronics are inter-connected and a simple poor solder joint or connection can cost a great deal of money to put right; in my experience though when something develops a fault other items then start to fail too.

Recently though I've been giving this a great deal of thought; our car is three years old next April and it's warranty expires; normally we would trade in at three years old or before just to keep a car under manufacturers warranty but it's all spiralling out of control; our Yeti being a high spec SE L already has lots of electronics and it will soon be three years old; during the three years even more and more complicated electronics have been added to cars so buying another new car it would be even more prone to electronic failure; I'm not totally against electronics I simply don't trust them; we already scrap our washing machine once it breaks down because it's electronic circuit board fails and a new circuit board costs half the price of a new washing machine but now modern cars are heading the same way.

Bron and I have discussed buying another new car but enough is enough; we're going to keep the Yeti which we both love. This decision is based on a number of things; we don't particularly like the look of the Yeti replacement the Karoq and the Karoq already attracts poor reviews; we love the Yeti it being a brilliant car for us that turns into a decent sized van if required; it's very economical with an easy 60mpg; it's delightful to own and drive. To buy a new car trading the Yeti in would mean spending something like £12,000 cash then in another three years perhaps £14,000 cash; the car manufacturers I think are trying to lock us into trading in every three years by making their cars so impossibly expensive to repair once the warranty expires but time now to say enough is enough.

When the Yeti is due for its first MOT next April; we'll have it fitted with "All year" tyres and pay subscription to a breakdown company like the AA or RAC; £12,000 will cover a lot of repairs?

Our Yeti is the "Adblue" model meaning only £30 per year road tax and comprehensive insurance is about £340 for me; the Yeti also has a lifetime paintwork warranty; we fully own the Yeti so we'll see how we get on owning it in the future?

I'd like your F-250 though Doug it looks a beauty. I've been looking at Toyota pickups;

https://www.toyota.co.uk/new-cars/hilux/

Kind regards, Colin.

 

[Retired]

Hi,

I'm not even looking at Toyota pickups any longer; even these indestructible vehicles now succumb to dreaded electronics;

https://www.driving.co.uk/car-reviews/clarkson/jeremy-clarkson-review-2018-toyota-hilux-pick/

Jeremy Clarkson and his team couldn't kill an old model but electronics can sure stop a new model; for those who have never watched the videos here's how tough the old Toyota pickups really were;

Kind regards, Colin.

 

[Silentrunning]

Colin, my truck has a few sensors and EFI. There are truck sites that have the electronics at a fraction of dealer costs. As a sidebar - my wife had a Cadillac SRX that burned outa rear blinker light. The cost to replace the light was $800 US. Needless to say we got rid of that car immediately.

 

[Retired]

Hi,

$800 to sort a blinker light out Silentrunning is robbery but explains why I'm against modern cars relying more and more on electronics; it would worry me to play around with the Yeti electronics because a great deal of damage could be caused; how many understand that just touching an electronic circuit board could destroy the board; working on circuit boards in my workshop I used to wear a wrist strap that was connected to earth; wearing a wooly jumper can create a great deal of static electricity which easily destroys many sensitive electronic components.

$800 for a light though when my first car cost an whole £5? I've been wondering if its possible to isolate lots of the electronics in the Yeti I never use but it's a dangerous game and could even result in an electrical fire?

Kind regards, Colin.

 

[Silentrunning]

Colin, let’s see if I can give you food for thought. Let’s assume you are going to trade in the Yeti on a new car. How much cash will you have to put with the Yeti for the purchase? Let’s call this $X. Now figure out what the new car will depreciate in three years. We will call this amount $Y. Now add $X + $Y = $Z. Now will the cost of repairs on the Yeti over the next 3 years equal or exceed $Z? Very unlikely. The only thing you would miss out on is the thrill of owning a new car. That usually lasts about 2 weeks.

 

[Retired]

Hi,

Many thanks Doug for your thoughts; I couldn't agree with you more.

I've been giving serious thought to exactly as you say and below is part of the post I added on just that subject. I can state quite accurately what the costs of a new car would be to us to keep a similar level of car; next year we'd expect to hand over around £12,000 cash plus our Yeti as trade in against the new car then say in another three years with inflation the trade in would also require say another £14,000 cash; at this rate the simple maths work out about £4,000 per year to keep trading in?

Hi,

Recently though I've been giving this a great deal of thought; our car is three years old next April and it's warranty expires; normally we would trade in at three years old or before just to keep a car under manufacturers warranty but it's all spiralling out of control; our Yeti being a high spec SE L already has lots of electronics and it will soon be three years old; during the three years even more and more complicated electronics have been added to cars so buying another new car it would be even more prone to electronic failure; I'm not totally against electronics I simply don't trust them; we already scrap our washing machine once it breaks down because it's electronic circuit board fails and a new circuit board costs half the price of a new washing machine but now modern cars are heading the same way.

Bron and I have discussed buying another new car but enough is enough; we're going to keep the Yeti which we both love. This decision is based on a number of things; we don't particularly like the look of the Yeti replacement the Karoq and the Karoq already attracts poor reviews; we love the Yeti it being a brilliant car for us that turns into a decent sized van if required; it's very economical with an easy 60mpg; it's delightful to own and drive. To buy a new car trading the Yeti in would mean spending something like £12,000 cash then in another three years perhaps £14,000 cash; the car manufacturers I think are trying to lock us into trading in every three years by making their cars so impossibly expensive to repair once the warranty expires but time now to say enough is enough.

When the Yeti is due for its first MOT next April; we'll have it fitted with "All year" tyres and pay subscription to a breakdown company like the AA or RAC; £12,000 will cover a lot of repairs?

Our Yeti is the "Adblue" model meaning only £30 per year road tax and comprehensive insurance is about £340 for me; the Yeti also has a lifetime paintwork warranty; we fully own the Yeti so we'll see how we get on owning it in the future?

Kind regards, Colin.

The money though is only part of the whole picture; we can afford the money but we can't seem to find a car to suit us better than the Yeti; as I stated earlier all modern cars are now becoming clones of each other but during each three year period manufacturers are losing sight that a car is basically only transport and there are many of us who don't want our car bogged down with complicated electronics just waiting to go wrong; some electronics I like but I don't need a huge touch screen for media or phone or switches on the steering wheel etc; the more electronics added to a car to play with to me equals more road accidents?

We could of course simply buy the basic car available like a Dacia but we'd love another Yeti so the choice is taken away from us; how long before cars have vertical take off to deal with parking?

https://www.mytyres.co.uk/cgi-bin/r...LL&Label=E-B-72-2&details=Ordern&typ=R-378529

Our Yeti has covered around 16,000 miles to date and it's still like new and immaculate; next year we could spend say £1,000 maximum fitting a set of all season tyres even covering the service and MOT with some change? The tyres are just an example and with winter upon us I'm considering replacing the tyres now; these original tyres still with plenty of mileage left and one almost new all could be sold as spares?

We're pretty sure we'll be keeping the Yeti for some time yet? There does reach a point when a car no longer depreciates and actually start to increase in value depending on the car and model? Our neighbours across the street are still running a small Vauxhall it being 28 years old and used every day?

Kind regards, Colin.

 

[Silentrunning]

Colin, what is MOT?

 

[Retired]

Hi,

Thanks for asking Doug. The dreaded MOT is a government test of vehicle roadworthiness; the first MOT is carried out when a vehicle reaches three years old from the date of first registration then annually thereafter.

https://www.gov.uk/getting-an-mot/the-mot-test

Vehicle owners tend to dread the MOT because the test can throw up very expensive repairs/replacements needed to the vehicle; exhaust; tyres; emissions brakes etc plus many other items are thoroughly inspected and a fail means the vehicle becomes illegal to drive on the public highway. Years ago a friend had to pay £700 just because of a single airbag fault. Prices for the test vary so it pays to shop around and it can be cheaper if included in a service.

I'm now shopping around for a set of four all season tyres because we've decided to keep the Yeti; the tyres already fitted are still very good but they are summer tyres; if we replace the tyres now we can relax knowing we'll get home in bad weather conditions with winter upon us; money is of little use after an accident? With the new tyres fitted then next April the Yeti should go through its first MOT without the slightest problem.

Kind regards, Colin.