When to give up on the 4x6 horz'l bandsaw?

[Existential Angst]

Awl --

How do you know when to junk it, and just get another one?

I've had two main problems: Blade tracking (jumping off the wheels), and
wildly non-vertical cuts.

Now, I know the blade tracking can be adjusted by a kind of camber screw on
the top wheel, and that the blade guides can be rotated for cut
perpendicularity, but neither of these seem to be helping.

The blade wheels don't seem to be worn, altho I'm not sure if the blade
surface of those wheels is supposed to be exactly parallel to the rotation
axis, or have a slight rake toward the back flange, to help keep the blade
on the wheel.
Would it be useful to put a rake on this face, on the lathe?

Next, how much play in the blade guide bearings is acceptable? The ones I
replaced had very little play, but replacing them seemed to solve the
problem.

Now, the perspicacious amongst 4x6 owners will be asking:
Wtf did MOI get replacement parts from ????

Ahhhh, li'l Grasshoppers......
My machine tool supplier had literally dozens of these saws (and their
"sister" drill presses) in various states of return, and one month I just
scavenged zillions of parts, so that I could in fact make complete saws.
Plus I didn't sweat any of the small stuff, like those bullshit guards,
protectors, stands, wheels, I just threw alladat shit out.

If you want a nice stand, spend $50 on one of them wheeled/shelved wire
carts from Sams/Costco.... good rolling cart, with good storage. I
actually have TWO 4x6's mounted side by side on one of these carts, one for
alum, one for steel -- vastly reduced belt/blade changing, you really get
spoiled by this, AND your blades last a lot longer.

But, the Q remains: If one does not have that type of parts bonanza (which
moi no longer has), just how DO you get parts??
You can find all kinds of help/tips for these saws, but no real parts
source. Which suggests that this is, essentially, a throw-away tool, after
a while.
I wonder how many sep. factories there are for this tool, in Taiwan/China,
because some saws seem to be made a bit better than others. Is there a
known outlet for the better saws?? I can't imagine it would be
effingHF.....

I essentially gave up on these saws, let them sit for about 2 years, since I
do little steel cutting these days, and discovered the RAS for aluminum,
even 3" bar.
But, the RAS can requires some testosterone (and boucou ear plugs), and I'm
running low on the former. Plus, tough to use the RAS at 3 a.m.....

But on a massive cleanup of the shop, I decided to take care of bidness, but
still, the problems were curious in their intractability, and I don't know
if brute-force parts replacement was the best solution, altho it appears to
be A solution.

I like the tip about an oil drip, for the blade. I made a pretty
sophisticated (well, at least for THIS saw) recirculating coolant
system/stand, which eventually got stolen (a left handed compliment, if
there ever was one), but realize that the oil drip idear may be a lot more
practical. Inyone done this?

Idears, experiences, war stories on repairs??

 

[Jon Danniken]

My machine tool supplier had literally dozens of these saws (and their
"sister" drill presses) in various states of return, and one month I just
scavenged zillions of parts, so that I could in fact make complete saws.
Plus I didn't sweat any of the small stuff, like those bullshit guards,
protectors, stands, wheels, I just threw alladat shit out.

Got a gear shaft (the one between the lower pulley wheel and the brass
worm gear) you want to get rid of? Mine snapped just past the bearings.

Jon

 

[Jim Wilkins]

... Idears, experiences, war stories on repairs??
EA

I have a 1989 Delta 4x6 which was well made and cuts square. Someone
didn't like it because I bought it from a pawn shop for ~$120 in the
mid 1990's.

 

[Existential Angst]

Got a gear shaft (the one between the lower pulley wheel and the brass
worm gear) you want to get rid of? Mine snapped just past the bearings.

The worm gear/shaft attaches to the stepped belt pulley. That can't be
removed, at least not by me -- wonder how they got that in there, cuz the
worm gear is not pinned to the shaft. I don't think that worm gear is
brass.

The shaft for the blade pulley connects to a "regular" brass gear. I got a
cupla of those (shaft+brass gear) in varying conditions. Those can be
pounded out, altho in pounding them back in, not sure how that will affect
seals, etc.

 

[jon_banquer]

The worm gear/shaft attaches to the stepped belt pulley.  That can't be
removed, at least not by me -- wonder how they got that in there, cuz the
worm gear is not pinned to the shaft.  I don't think that worm gear is
brass.

The shaft for the blade pulley connects to a "regular" brass gear.  I got a
cupla of those (shaft+brass gear)  in varying conditions.  Those can be
pounded out, altho in pounding them back in, not sure how that will affect
seals, etc.

This guy use to be a lawyer. The detail he goes into is painful at
times to watch but if you really want a serious understanding of how
to tune and modify a bandsaw it's worth it. His DVD is almost 8 hours
of beyond anal retentive information exclusively on bandsaws.

http://www.passionforwood.com/dvds-bandsaw.htm

http://www.passionforwood.com/dvdpreview-bandsaw.html

 

[Existential Angst]

The worm gear/shaft attaches to the stepped belt pulley. That can't be
removed, at least not by me -- wonder how they got that in there, cuz the
worm gear is not pinned to the shaft. I don't think that worm gear is
brass.

The shaft for the blade pulley connects to a "regular" brass gear. I got a
cupla of those (shaft+brass gear) in varying conditions. Those can be
pounded out, altho in pounding them back in, not sure how that will affect
seals, etc.

This guy use to be a lawyer. The detail he goes into is painful at
times to watch but if you really want a serious understanding of how
to tune and modify a bandsaw it's worth it. His DVD is almost 8 hours
of beyond anal retentive information exclusively on bandsaws.

http://www.passionforwood.com/dvds-bandsaw.htm

http://www.passionforwood.com/dvdpreview-bandsaw.html

=======================================================

Nice site, guy seems to really enjoy his craft. The rec.woodworking peeple
would proly appreciate this as well. I have to post my home-moaners
travails of spray painting over there (HF pressurized paint pot), I'll give
them the link.

 

[David Billington]

Got a gear shaft (the one between the lower pulley wheel and the brass
worm gear) you want to get rid of? Mine snapped just past the bearings.

Jon

Is the spares back up from the suppliers poor in the US? When I needed a
new worm and wheel for my 4x6 here in the UK I just went and asked the
supplier MachineMart http://www.machinemart.co.uk/ and they had them in
stock and I had the new items in a couple of days for about £17 total
which I thought was very reasonable. That was about 7 years ago and the
saw was about 7 years old at the time and the parts fitted fine. When I
first got the saw the worm and wheel mesh was very tight and had to be
adjusted and at sometime subsequently moved again and eventually wore
the wheel badly, I suspect as the tops of the worm teeth were very
sharp. I fitted 4 new ball bearings to support the bits as at least one
of the originals had a bore about 0.005" over size so not a good fit
with the shaft. On the few occasions I have gone to MachineMart for
spares they have always had them in stock and delivered quickly so might
be an option although shipping to the US would add some to the final price.

 

[jon_banquer]

This guy use to be a lawyer. The detail he goes into is painful at
times to watch but if you really want a serious understanding of how
to tune and modify a bandsaw it's worth it. His DVD is almost 8 hours
of beyond anal retentive information exclusively on bandsaws.

http://www.passionforwood.com/dvds-bandsaw.htm

http://www.passionforwood.com/dvdpreview-bandsaw.html

=======================================================

Nice site, guy seems to really enjoy his craft.  The rec.woodworking peeple
would proly appreciate this as well.  I have to post my home-moaners
travails of spray painting over there (HF pressurized paint pot), I'll give
them the link.

He really understands the technical details of woodworking tools and
how to properly cut wood where I feel most don't. That he takes the
time to explain the important details in full is what I think really
sets him apart.

At first glance many people think a bandsaw is a simple piece of
equipment. In truth it's very fussy to tune and keep running right.

 

[Alphonso]

How did you fare from Sandy? I figured your basement would be completely
underwater.

 

[Jon Danniken]

"Jon Danniken" wrote in message


The worm gear/shaft attaches to the stepped belt pulley. That can't be
removed, at least not by me -- wonder how they got that in there, cuz the
worm gear is not pinned to the shaft. I don't think that worm gear is
brass.

The shaft for the blade pulley connects to a "regular" brass gear. I got a
cupla of those (shaft+brass gear) in varying conditions. Those can be
pounded out, altho in pounding them back in, not sure how that will affect
seals, etc.

Ah, you are correct, it has been a few months since mine went south.

Funny thing about it is that the hole drilled for the pin is off-center;
I don't know if they are all off center, or if it just depends on who is
running the drill press that day:

http://i.imgur.com/eilkZ.jpg

Jon

 

[Jon Danniken]

Is the spares back up from the suppliers poor in the US? When I needed a
new worm and wheel for my 4x6 here in the UK I just went and asked the
supplier MachineMart http://www.machinemart.co.uk/ and they had them in
stock and I had the new items in a couple of days for about £17 total
which I thought was very reasonable. That was about 7 years ago and the
saw was about 7 years old at the time and the parts fitted fine. When I
first got the saw the worm and wheel mesh was very tight and had to be
adjusted and at sometime subsequently moved again and eventually wore
the wheel badly, I suspect as the tops of the worm teeth were very
sharp. I fitted 4 new ball bearings to support the bits as at least one
of the originals had a bore about 0.005" over size so not a good fit
with the shaft. On the few occasions I have gone to MachineMart for
spares they have always had them in stock and delivered quickly so might
be an option although shipping to the US would add some to the final price.

Thanks for the tip, David. I bought mine from an outfit called Harbor
Freight, and I'm pretty sure they don't have parts available.

Nice to know there is at least one place that still does that!

Jon

 

[Existential Angst]

How did you fare from Sandy? I figured your basement would be completely
underwater.

Hey, nice of you to ask, but no, I'm on a hill, bone dry. I lose power all
the time, which is why I'm x'ing off the days on my calendar until my 15,000
W nat gas genset arrives....
Didn't lose power during Sandy, but since I bit my fingernails to the quick,
I figger next time, with a genset, I at least won't have to bandage all 10
digits... LOL

Said hill, however, means I can't get to my house when it snows....

 

[Existential Angst]

Is the spares back up from the suppliers poor in the US? When I needed a
new worm and wheel for my 4x6 here in the UK I just went and asked the
supplier MachineMart http://www.machinemart.co.uk/ and they had them in
stock and I had the new items in a couple of days for about £17 total
which I thought was very reasonable. That was about 7 years ago and the
saw was about 7 years old at the time and the parts fitted fine. When I
first got the saw the worm and wheel mesh was very tight and had to be
adjusted and at sometime subsequently moved again and eventually wore the
wheel badly, I suspect as the tops of the worm teeth were very sharp. I
fitted 4 new ball bearings to support the bits as at least one of the
originals had a bore about 0.005" over size so not a good fit with the
shaft. On the few occasions I have gone to MachineMart for spares they
have always had them in stock and delivered quickly so might be an option
although shipping to the US would add some to the final price.

Indeed, under Customer Svc, they have a Parts Dept.... what a revolutionary
concept.... altho over here, Sears always had a good parts network, for
their stuff.

In terms of wear in the gearbox, sometimes these saws are shipped almost
bone-dry, with a shitty li'l dollop of grease, that can't poss. get to the
gear teeth or bearings.

So what I do -- which may not be the best application of lubrication
science, but it beats a dry gear box -- I put in gobs of axle grease, a gob
of lithium grease, and *fill* the box with 20W-50 or gear oil.

Filling the whole box with oil also makes sure the bearings stay lubed, as
well.
Everyone with a 4x6 should pop the cover off, and fill up that gear box.

 

[bob haller]

So what I do -- which may not be the best application of lubrication
science, but it beats a dry gear box -- I put in gobs of axle grease, a gob
of lithium grease, and *fill* the box with 20W-50 or gear oil.

NEVER MIX different types of grease!

lithium added too most others equals crud / rock that jams whatever
you were trying to lube

For many years I had a customer with a machine I serviced in their
lab.. they had a large chart on the wall with details of whats
compatible.

lithium isnt compatible with much of anything,,,,,,

 

[Jon Danniken]

Regarding parts from Harbor Freight:
I have never been disappointed when I needed parts from them.
-Simply go to their website.
-Search for the item you have
-Somewhere on that page will be a link to the "Manual".
-Open it up and you will find the parts list toward the back of the manual
-Locate and write down the numbers of the parts you need.
-Write down the model number of the product.
-Call Harbor Freight tech support (or customer service if you can't find
the tech support number) and tell them what you want to order.

You will be surprised at the wide variety of parts that they do have in
stock. Sometimes, though, I have had to wait several weeks for a part,
but they tell you that up front. This can happen when you need a part
that isn't normally called for.

[snip]

Thanks for that information, Pete, I wouldn't have guessed that they
were able to order parts. I'll give them a jingle tomorrow and see what
they have to say.

Jon

 

[Existential Angst]

Regarding parts from Harbor Freight:
I have never been disappointed when I needed parts from them.
-Simply go to their website.
-Search for the item you have
-Somewhere on that page will be a link to the "Manual".
-Open it up and you will find the parts list toward the back of the manual
-Locate and write down the numbers of the parts you need.
-Write down the model number of the product.
-Call Harbor Freight tech support (or customer service if you can't find
the tech support number) and tell them what you want to order.

You will be surprised at the wide variety of parts that they do have in
stock. Sometimes, though, I have had to wait several weeks for a part,
but they tell you that up front. This can happen when you need a part
that isn't normally called for.

I don't work for HF, and I do realize that you get what you pay for.
HF works for me, with the above in mind.

Now, here's my dirty little HF-as-a-parts-source secret:
Since the Chinese rip off many, many tool designs, the parts they use are
often exact copies of the original designs. I go there to get parts for
the original machines when the price for a "real one" is 'way too high for
me.
Example:
I needed a 12" long tool rest for an old Delta wood lathe. Ebay price for
a used one was about $50, if you could find one.
HF has a similar size lathe, obviously very cheaply made, but with a cast
iron tool rest, just like the original. I copied down the model number,
went home and looked up the manual. Price brand new: $7.00!

Great info.

 

[Existential Angst]

NEVER MIX different types of grease!

lithium added too most others equals crud / rock that jams whatever
you were trying to lube

For many years I had a customer with a machine I serviced in their
lab.. they had a large chart on the wall with details of whats
compatible.

lithium isnt compatible with much of anything,,,,,,

Hmmm.... I'll check the box in a cupla days, report back.
Fort'ly, the dollop of lithium grease wadn't as big as any of the other
dollops.... lol

 

[Too_Many_Tools]

Regarding parts from Harbor Freight:
  I have never been disappointed when I needed parts from them.
-Simply go to their website.
-Search for the item you have
-Somewhere on that page will be a link to the "Manual".
-Open it up and you will find the parts list toward the back of the manual
-Locate and write down the numbers of the parts you need.
-Write down the model number of the product.
-Call Harbor Freight tech support (or customer service if you can't find the
tech support number) and tell them what you want to order.

You will be surprised at the wide variety of parts that they do have in
stock.  Sometimes, though, I have had to wait several weeks for a part,but
they tell you that up front.  This can happen when you need a part that
isn't normally called for.

I don't work for HF, and I do realize that you get what you pay for.
HF works for me, with the above in mind.

Now, here's my dirty little HF-as-a-parts-source secret:
Since the Chinese rip off many, many tool designs, the parts they use are
often exact copies of the original designs.  I go there to get parts for the
original machines when the price for a "real one" is 'way too high for me..
Example:
I needed a 12" long tool rest for an old Delta wood lathe.  Ebay price for a
used one was about $50, if you could find one.
HF has a similar size lathe, obviously very cheaply made, but with a cast
iron tool rest, just like the original.  I copied down the model number,
went home and looked up the manual.  Price brand new: $7.00!

Pete Stanaitis
---------------






- Show quoted text -

I use HF for a parts source for other non-HF tools also.

Great prices.

As for your example of a tool rest, HF is a great source for
accessories that other manufacturers either do not carry or will rape
you for the honor of buying from them.

TMT

 

[Too_Many_Tools]

Awl --

How do you know when to junk it, and just get another one?

I've had two main problems:  Blade tracking (jumping off the wheels), and
wildly non-vertical cuts.

Now, I know the blade tracking can be adjusted by a kind of camber screw on
the top wheel, and that the blade guides can be rotated for cut
perpendicularity, but neither of these seem to be helping.

The blade wheels don't seem to be worn, altho I'm not sure if the blade
surface of those wheels is supposed to be exactly parallel to the rotation
axis, or have a slight rake toward the back flange, to help keep the blade
on the wheel.
Would it be useful to put a rake on this face, on the lathe?

Next, how much play in the blade guide bearings is acceptable?  The ones I
replaced had very little play, but replacing them seemed to solve the
problem.

Now, the perspicacious amongst 4x6 owners will be asking:
   Wtf  did MOI get replacement parts from ????

Ahhhh, li'l Grasshoppers......
   My machine tool supplier had literally dozens of these saws (and their
"sister" drill presses) in various states of return, and one month I just
scavenged zillions of parts,  so that I could in fact make complete saws.
Plus I didn't sweat any of the small stuff, like those bullshit guards,
protectors, stands, wheels, I just threw alladat shit out.

If you want a nice stand, spend $50 on one of them wheeled/shelved wire
carts from Sams/Costco....  good rolling cart, with good storage.  I
actually have TWO  4x6's mounted side by side on one of these carts, one for
alum, one for steel -- vastly reduced belt/blade changing, you really get
spoiled by this, AND your blades last a lot longer.

But, the Q remains:  If one does not have that type of parts bonanza (which
moi no longer has), just how DO you get parts??
You can find all kinds of help/tips for these saws, but no real parts
source.  Which suggests that this is, essentially, a throw-away tool, after
a while.
I wonder how many sep. factories there are for this tool, in Taiwan/China,
because some saws seem to be made a bit better than others.  Is there a
known outlet for the better saws??  I can't imagine it would be
effingHF.....

I essentially gave up on these saws, let them sit for about 2 years, since I
do little steel cutting these days, and discovered the RAS for aluminum,
even 3" bar.
But, the RAS can requires some testosterone (and boucou ear plugs), and I'm
running low on the former.  Plus, tough to use the RAS at 3 a.m.....

But on a massive cleanup of the shop, I decided to take care of bidness, but
still, the problems were curious in their intractability, and I don't know
if brute-force parts replacement was the best solution, altho it appears to
be A solution.

I like the tip about an oil drip, for the blade.  I made a pretty
sophisticated (well, at least for THIS saw) recirculating coolant
system/stand, which eventually got stolen (a left handed compliment, if
there ever was one), but realize that the oil drip idear may be a lot more
practical.  Inyone done this?

Idears, experiences, war stories on repairs??

Your setup with a saw per specific blade is a great idea...of which I
will implement in my own shops.

I have many grinders with wheels per specific job...for a bit of floor
space you get significant convenience.

The cart for a stand is another great idea.

FYI...the retail chain is setup to sell "a box" and is not equipped
for even the slightest repair/adjustment job on any item.

For your tracking problem...make sure your blades are properly
tensioned...which means in this case to tighten the crap out of the
saw...proper tensioning really can't be done with the saw as it
is..the handle is too small..but having it as tight as you can do goes
a long ways. Also buy good blades...as with most machine tools today
the magic is in the cutting tool not the machine. Poorly made blades
will never track and will drive you crazy. I have had good luck with
Lenox and Morse brands.

TMT

 

[Jon Danniken]

Actually Harbor Freight is pretty good about supplying parts. They
have been known to strip parts from a brand new good machine to make
sure the customer is taken care of. Parts that make the brand new
machine no longer usable to any degree.

http://www.harborfreight.com/contact-customer-service

Even easier; thanks Gunner!

Jon