When shopping online for bearings, how do you decide on QUALITY?


D

Danny D

Q: When shopping online for bearings, how do you choose which to buy?

I've never purchased bearings before and I now need about 10 of a
specific size (17x40x12mm, 6203-2RS, double sealed, not shielded).

Googling for bearing quality standards, I find ABEC 3 & ISO P6 standards
are common for bearing *tolerances* for pool pump motors.

But the ABEC/ISO ratings don't appear to cover materials selection,
ball retainer type, grade of ball, the clearance between the balls
and the races, and other manufacturer quality standards.

Worse yet, the ABEC-3/ISO-P6 rating isn't generally listed in most
online ads for bearings when searching by trade size.

Given the same 6203-2RS bearing sells online for anywhere between
$1.21 to $18.99 per bearing, I ask those who have actually bought
motor bearings before ...

QUESTION: How do *you* choose your replacement bearings online?
 
Ad

Advertisements

D

Danny D

Given the same 6203-2RS bearing sells online for anywhere between
$1.21 to $18.99 per bearing, how do *you* choose between bearings?
As a specific example, the 6203-2RS double-sealed bearing is a common
bearing for automotive and engine use; but very few online ads state
the manufacturer, and even fewer list the ABEC/ISO quality rating.

I can call each one, but there must be a better way.

I don't know which brands are better than others, and googling shows
a plethora of manufacturers, e.g., ASK, BCA, Bearings Limited, Bones,
Fafnir Torrington, FAG, Federal, GBC, Hoover, IKO, INA, KBC, Koyo,
Nachi, New Departure, Norma Hoffman, National Precision, RHP, NTN,
NSK, MRC, RHP, SKF, Steyr, Timken, & UBC.

Do you know which of these is considered a "good brand"?

Unfortunately, price isn't all that helpful (you never get what you pay
for - you get what the market will bear - and the market is filled with
idiots as well as savants) - as the survey below shows the same size
bearing for $19 at pool supply stores, down to $15 at Granger, down to
$2 at a variety of supply houses.

Since I need about 10 of these bearings, the result ranges from $20 to
almost $200 for my bearing replacement needs.

QUESTION: How do *you* choose your replacement bearings online?

Here is a quick result of a survey of the wide range of bearing prices
for the same size and description bearing (62032rs ACA3 ISO-P6):
$1.21 Ebay ABEC3
http://compare.ebay.com/like/130843959519?var=lv&ltyp=AllFixedPriceItemTypes&var=sbar

$1.60 brandx
http://www.vxb.com/page/bearings/PROD/6203-2RS10?gclid=COWP_4yAqbcCFStyQgodc3oAZg

$1.66 brandx (stainless steel is $10.40)
https://wbcindustrial.com/search/products/62032rs

$1.75 brandx
http://www.fastenal.com/web/products/details/0474389

$1.82 Amazon
http://www.amazon.com/6203-2rs-Premium-Bearing-Bearings-ABEC3/dp/B00ALF1XMI

$1.99 Amazon vxb
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B002BBK3YY/ref=asc_df_B002BBK3YY2547988

$2.23 brandx
http://www.rcbearings.com/individual-bearings/62032rs

$2.77 brandx
http://www.vxb.com/page/bearings/PROD/6203-2RS10-1

$3.02 brandx
http://store.58cycle.com/All_Balls_6203_2RLD_483_AD_PN_62032RS_p/ad-pn-62032rs.htm

$3.95 Ebay
ebay.com/itm/6203-2RS-62032RS-6203RS-BEARING-17mm-x-40mm-x-12mm-/360259671063

$4.00 brandx
http://wetheadpumprepair.com/10-pack-6203-2rs-ll-bearings/

$4.99 brandx
http://oempumpstore.com/store/pump-...rs-c3-ll-premium-bearing-blue-seals/productld

$5.13 UBC
http://octopart.com/6203+2rs-ubc+bearing-24188456

$5.46 GBC
https://www.shopibt.com/storefront/itemdetail.do?action=prepare_detail&itm_id=877982

$5.95 brandx
http://www.vxb.com/page/bearings/PROD/Kit8194

$12.29 SKF
http://www.mscdirect.com/product/45667383

$14.27 SKF
http://www.grainger.com/Grainger/SKF-Radial-Ball-Bearing-23Y203

$14.95
http://fixthepool.com/Motor-Bearing-set-of-2-10000353-or-6203-P126918.aspx

$18.99 NSK
http://www.inyopools.com/Products/07501352012909.htm
 
D

dpb

Q: When shopping online for bearings, how do you choose which to buy?
....

Given the same 6203-2RS bearing sells online for anywhere between
$1.21 to $18.99 per bearing, I ask those who have actually bought
motor bearings before ...

QUESTION: How do *you* choose your replacement bearings online?
I base on what the application is and what was the original.

Higher loadings and/or higher risk/cost of failure equates to using a
known vendor (SKF or like, say and the associated cost). For
inexpensive stuff or low loadings I've found the VXB stuff to be
adequate and good value.

--
 
D

dpb

They aren't necessarily the same; only that they fit same dimensions and
type...
As a specific example, the 6203-2RS double-sealed bearing is a common
bearing for automotive and engine use; but very few online ads state
the manufacturer, and even fewer list the ABEC/ISO quality rating.

I can call each one, but there must be a better way.

I don't know which brands are better than others, and googling shows
a plethora of manufacturers, e.g., ASK, BCA, Bearings Limited, Bones,
Fafnir Torrington, FAG, Federal, GBC, Hoover, IKO, INA, KBC, Koyo,
Nachi, New Departure, Norma Hoffman, National Precision, RHP, NTN,
NSK, MRC, RHP, SKF, Steyr, Timken,& UBC.

Do you know which of these is considered a "good brand"?
Fafnir, Federal, New Departure, Timken, SKF, NSK are some of the well known.
Unfortunately, price isn't all that helpful (you never get what you pay
for ...
Nonsense. All generalizations, are, in general, generally false...
Since I need about 10 of these bearings, the result ranges from $20 to
almost $200 for my bearing replacement needs.
....

And you've still not given any indication of service need, so the
crystal orb remains dark....

--
 
D

Danny D

They aren't necessarily the same; only that they fit same dimensions
That's exactly why I'm asking the question.

That pool pump motor bearing *size* is priced anywhere from $20 at pool
stores, down to $2 on Ebay, and every price in between.

So the question is how to best choose amongst the choices?
Fafnir, Federal, New Departure, Timken, SKF, NSK are ... well known.
That may be the simplest way to narrow the choices down.
By brand, and then by price.
Note: I called AO Smith (now Century Motors) and they said the original
bearings were NSK 6203 double sealed; so NSK may be the way to go.
Nonsense. All generalizations, are, in general, generally false...
I don't (yet) know how to choose bearings, but, having taken quite
a few economics & marketing classes, I find it hard to believe that
the pool store $18 bearing is really the best bearing.

To give an example of something that I do know - at Sears, for $75,
I can buy a US Seal PS-3868 pump seal, which I can just as well get
for $10 at a whole bunch of places online.

I find it hard to believe that Sears' pump seal is any better (or
even any different) than the same seal bought for $10. Point here
is that, price is absolutely no indication of quality. Never was.
Never will be.

(Note: Price, from Microeconomics 101, has much more to do with
Marketing, Demand, and Competition (although Chinese goods also
have a bit of Macroeconomic policy affecting prices).
you've still not given any indication of service need
Ooops. My mistake. Pool pump motors. 230v. I think they're about
4,000 rpm. Outdoor use. They run dry (if the pump seals are good).
They run for about 8 hours a day. 3/4" shaft. Original bearings
are NSK 6203 double-sealed, non shielded. Replacement bearings
currently were 6203D which is a substandard bearing, IMHO.
 
D

Danny D

Higher loadings and/or higher risk/cost of failure equates to using a
known vendor (SKF or like, say and the associated cost). For
inexpensive stuff or low loadings I've found the VXB stuff to be
adequate and good value.
Regarding the load, I'm not sure if the "load" for a pool pump motor
is high or low. What do you think? They spin at about 4K RPM and they
run for about 8 hours a day outdoors.

Is that a high load or a low load?
 
Ad

Advertisements

D

Danny D

Fafnir, Federal, New Departure, Timken, SKF, NSK
Thanks for the SKF/VXB pointer, as I need about a dozen bearings,
and all I want is to make a wise choice.

I can find VXB 6203-2RS bearings for about $2; and the SKF bearings
go for $14.27 at Grainger & $6.19 at usabearingsandbelts.com.

The $2 bearings scare me (mainly via FUD); but the $20 bearings
at the pool stores just make me mad (price gouging).

Still, I'm not sure *what* a 62032RS bearing generally goes for,
given the 10x pricing range I've found simply by googling.

Buying by brand seems reasonable, if no other factor is
available.

I had previously somewhat narrowed the list to the following:
FAG, SKF, NSK, INA, TIMKEN, KOYO, NTN, NACHI, ZWZ, HRB, LYC, ABT

But I have *zero* experience with bearings; so that's why I
had asked.
 
D

dpb

Regarding the load, I'm not sure if the "load" for a pool pump motor
is high or low. What do you think? They spin at about 4K RPM and they
run for about 8 hours a day outdoors.

Is that a high load or a low load?
Standard electric motor rpm's are 1725 and 3450 for 60 Hz...yeah, that's
about 4k, but might as well get it right... :)

I'm assuming this is a pretty low volume pump (as compared to irrigation
or power plant applications, say); I've never had a pool so don't know
just what they are.

You're good at not providing much in the way of parameters... :)

Mostly the difference between the low-priced spread and the higher is
the static and dynamic load they're designed for--and that's the weight
applied and how much they've got to resist on shaft movement from
loading, etc.

Another key factor, is, of course, materials like SS and seals.

There certainly is some factor of which distributor you choose--most
retail places are much higher than jobbing houses but it isn't all just
gouging--it costs to keep inventory and brick and mortar and there is
something for the service of being around the corner. But, yes, there
is some but to say "never" is stretching it a lot was the point of even
responding to that point at all.

I'm curious as to how-come there are so many of these???

Are all out at one time? For that usage I'd probably give the VXB a
shot for a few and see how they hold up.

--
 
D

Danny D

Standard electric motor rpm's are 1725 and 3450 for 60 Hz...yeah, that's
about 4k, but might as well get it right...
OK. Understood.
The 1.65HP motor consumes 8.0A at 208-230VAC at 60Hz at 3450 RPM.

Of my six ~2HP motors, I'm rebuilding these two first:
AO Smith QC1102 1.65HP motor 6203 double sealed NSK 6203WC3E CLKEEMSM
AO Smith SQ1152 2.20HP motor 6203 double sealed NSK 62032RSGC3ETDEEMS9

The spec sheet is here:
http://www.lockewell.com/pdf/aosmith/aosmith_sq_qc_usq_uqc.pdf
http://www.inyopools.com/manuals/1330/QC1102.pdf
 
D

Danny D

I'm assuming this is a pretty low volume pump (as compared to irrigation
or power plant applications, say); I've never had a pool so don't know
just what they are.
The Sta-Rite System 3 Model S8M150 filter is max rated at
125 GPM (473 l/min.) at max 50 PSI (345 kPa).

http://www.pentairpool.com/pdfs/System3SMOM.pdf

Is 125 gallons per minute through 2" PVC pipe low or high volume?
 
Ad

Advertisements

D

dpb

The Sta-Rite Max-e-glas II Pool Pump says the maximum water velocity
through the main drain must be<= 6 feet per second.
http://www.pentairpool.com/pdfs/DuraGlasIIOM.pdf

Is 6 fps a low or fast velocity?
Pretty weak as far as "real" heavy...

If they were mine, I'd likely just go to the local distributor and buy
replacement for them from their inhouse stock and not worry much whether
were NSK or SFK or whatever. If were really interested in cheapest
possible route, then again, I'd probably take a chance't on the VXBs.

--
 
D

Danny D

The OP has previously stated he does not need a bearing
for his pump motors.
Hi Oren,
Sorry for not updating the team on the unrelated pump leak; that's
a separate issue which has nothing directly to do with the motors.

That old pump leak was fixed with a US Seals seal, just as you had
correctly surmised. Guess which seal I bought?

Note: This is a classic "you don't get what you pay for" example:
http://www2.picturepush.com/photo/a/13246095/img/13246095.jpeg
Source by Pentair Part Number = $75 (x four pumps = $300)
Source by US Seals Part Number = $10 (x four pumps = $40)

That old leak isn't the problem here.

The new issue is that I am rebuilding the four old pumps that I
have lying around (& thinking about rebuilding the two well pumps
plus the one pressure pump in the pump house); so I have seven
~2 HP motors running most of the time (not counting the generator).

For rebuilding the seven motors, the key thing is to source the
right bearings. Size isn't enough. Quality also matters.

Hence this quest for figuring out how to source quality bearings
on the net for the pool and fountain pumps that I already took
apart.

Sourcing bearings is something only someone who has done it will
know as there are assumptions you're forced to makethat have nothing
to do with the actual trade number of 6203-2RS (such as quality).
 
D

Danny D

not worry much whether were NSK or SFK or whatever.
If were really interested in cheapest
possible route, then again, I'd probably take a chance't on the VXBs.
Thanks. That's the kind of pragmatic advice I need.

Sometimes it matters to go name brand; sometimes it doesn't.
Only the experienced will know.

For example, I learned that the Craftsman chain saw (actually
Poulan) sucked; it died at just over a year. So, in that case,
I learned the hard way to go name brand (Stihl or Husky).

Yet, going name brand on pump seals (as I showed earlier) gets
me a $75 pump seal (which, for four pumps, is $300). Going
trade size US Seal (which is the same seal!), is $10 a seal,
for a savings equal to the price of an entire new pump! :)

So, the experienced person (which I am now on pump seals)
would never go to a pool store (or Sears) for a name brand
pump seal by pool equipment part number.

It may be either way with bearings:
a. Name brand rules?
b. Trade size rules?

I'm just not an experienced person on bearings yet; so,
I don't know which sourcing algorithm is the one you guys
use.

Note: It may be helpful to note that I've had my pumps
rebuilt before; and, for $150, they put in the *wrong*
bearings! (they put in the 6203D bearings!) That might
indicate that it doesn't matter all that much. :)
 
D

dpb

On 6/7/2013 4:13 PM, Danny D wrote:
....
I'm just not an experienced person on bearings yet; so,
I don't know which sourcing algorithm is the one you guys
use.
....

Experience, mostly, combined w/ purpose.

If it's a piece that isn't of any particular importance as far as either
safety or income I'll take a "whatever" choice that meets minimum
requirements of function. Like a pool pump--what's the worst if it
doesn't last--a little time w/o it and replacing it again? I'll take
the chance occasionally if it is a large price differential.

OTOH, on the air seeder there are about 120 of a given style but I buy
the JD-green replacement w/o even thinking about it because when I need
to be planting I can't afford downtime.

If your application were a critical component such as, perhaps, a sump
pump that is necessary for routine rainwater in a sump I'd not have
suggested the VXB as I really don't know much about 'em other than I've
used a few as replacement pilot bearings on a couple laminate trimmer
router bits. But, that was a deal where could buy 10 of theirs at not
much more than half-again over the NSK (and the local distributor didn't
have it in stock, anyway) so rather than pay $8-10 shipping for a single
$5 item I spent a couple more $$ and got the 10 on a flyer. If it craps
after 30 minutes, well I can go through 9 more before I'm down and since
that's never anything that is going to be a critical operation any more,
it's a chance I'll take.

Those are the general ideas behind how I pick/choose.

BTW, in my earlier response that I don't care about NSK, SFK, ..., etc.,
I meant I don't care amongst the well-known names. I'd not put VXB on
that list nor some of the others I've never heard of.

Who knows, some of those others may actually be manufacturing for the
big boys, but ya' just don't know if they are or not or even if they are
that these aren't seconds or somesuch at the bargain rates. Or, they
may just be fly-by-night knockoffs...no way to really tell that I know of.

--
 
Ad

Advertisements

D

DD_BobK

Q: When shopping online for bearings, how do you choose which to buy?

I've never purchased bearings before and I now need about 10 of a
specific size (17x40x12mm, 6203-2RS, double sealed, not shielded).

Googling for bearing quality standards, I find ABEC 3 & ISO P6 standards
are common for bearing *tolerances* for pool pump motors.

But the ABEC/ISO ratings don't appear to cover materials selection,
ball retainer type, grade of ball, the clearance between the balls
and the races, and other manufacturer quality standards.

Worse yet, the ABEC-3/ISO-P6 rating isn't generally listed in most
online ads for bearings when searching by trade size.

Given the same 6203-2RS bearing sells online for anywhere between
$1.21 to $18.99 per bearing, I ask those who have actually bought
motor bearings before ...

QUESTION: How do *you* choose your replacement bearings online?
I just buy the cheapest ones... cuz price the only thing that matters.
 
D

DD_BobK

for - you get what the market will bear - and the market is filled
with
idiots as well as savants)<<<

More wisdom from DADD ...or perhaps his father?
 
D

DD_BobK

Thanks. That's the kind of pragmatic advice I need.

Sometimes it matters to go name brand; sometimes it doesn't.
Only the experienced will know.

For example, I learned that the Craftsman chain saw (actually
Poulan) sucked; it died at just over a year. So, in that case,
I learned the hard way to go name brand (Stihl or Husky).

Yet, going name brand on pump seals (as I showed earlier) gets
me a $75 pump seal (which, for four pumps, is $300). Going
trade size US Seal (which is the same seal!), is $10 a seal,
for a savings equal to the price of an entire new pump! :)

So, the experienced person (which I am now on pump seals)
would never go to a pool store (or Sears) for a name brand
pump seal by pool equipment part number.

It may be either way with bearings:
a. Name brand rules?
b. Trade size rules?

I'm just not an experienced person on bearings yet; so,
I don't know which sourcing algorithm is the one you guys
use.

Note: It may be helpful to note that I've had my pumps
rebuilt before; and, for $150, they put in the *wrong*
bearings! (they put in the 6203D bearings!) That might
indicate that it doesn't matter all that much. :)
DADD-

Here's some sage advice (I'm not the author, merely the messenger)
Use this to help make better decisions...

"Cost of quality vs cost of non-conformance."

Some potentially extreme & trivial but telling examples.....sourcing
parachute..
seat belt replacement
kitchen trash bags
disposable diapers
infantry combat rifle
combat ammunition
lawn fertilizer
baby food
pool motor bearings


btw dpb's advice is worth more than you can probably know
 
Ad

Advertisements

R

Robert Green

Danny D said:
I don't (yet) know how to choose bearings, but, having taken quite
a few economics & marketing classes, I find it hard to believe that
the pool store $18 bearing is really the best bearing.
It's probably the highest price the market will 'bear.' (Sorry, too hard to
resist!)

As you have indicated, you find all the information you can about what you
need, search and then evaluate the options.

Ebay's cheap but there's a lot of junk being sold on Ebay that's mislabeled,
misrepresented or worse. Some 2500mAH AA NiMHs I bought from Ebay measured
out to be 500mAH batteries. A Formula One bracelet charm I got for my wife
had an "authenticity certificate" but it was hilariously fraudulent and the
item was not licensed by F1. CCTV cameras that say "Sony" in the listing
heading actually (if you're lucky) merely contain a Sony DSP chip but are
made by some fly-by-night company.

The problem I would have buying bearings from Ebay is that you really don't
know if they are counterfeit and made from metal that will not stand up to
prolonged use. The AA batteries were a real eye-opener for me. They were
deliberately marked fraudulenty with a clear intent to deceive. But they
were cheap. Too cheap. That should have been the tip-off.

The latest example of Ebay fraud at work was a Kree flashlight they
advertised on their Daily Deals page that wasn't a Kree but a cheap
knock-off that didn't even work. There was no way, without destroying the
unit, to even verify that there was at least a Kree LED in the flashlight.
So in such cases you have to depend on the honor of the seller. That mostly
rules out Ebay. (-:

So I am not surprised that they list your bearing for $2. I would be
surprised if it's any good.

I have to agree with Trader about Amazon. If I get something counterfeit or
misrepresented by the seller, Amazon makes good on it right away and sends a
postage-paid return label. Amazon really laced into the vendor selling 18
gauge speaker wire as 14 gauge and gave me full credit for the item. Their
customer service is astounding, especially compared to Ebay. Prices are
generally higher, as vendors obviously factor in the cost of providing the
level of support Amazon demands, but as they say, you get what you pay for.
For anything serious, I tend to shy away from Ebay.

Recently I needed a locator "beeper" for my keys and my two Roombas that
tend to die under beds and in other hard-to-find places. The major
difference between Amazon and Ebay became clear to me. Amazon lists product
reviews alongside the item. I could quickly tell that the cheap locators
had no range and that buyers were generally unhappy with them so I went for
a more expensive item that had much more positive reviews. Works great!
You can sort of do the same thing combing through Ebay's feedback, but it's
not nearly as simple or useful.

Oh, I forgot the wheelchair lift I bought from Ebay that was infested with
bugs. Apparently it was sitting in someone's damp, moldy garage for years
and remained unopened before being shipped to me. The infestation was SO
bad the item was ruined. And yet Ebay wanted me to pay for return shipping
of a very heavy item.

I countered saying if it was a brick and mortar sale, I would have inspected
the package, found the damage to the box and insisted on opening it before
paying for it. Eventually, they gave me a gift certificate equal to the
return shipping, but not until I wasted a lot of time photographing the
damage, writing up the issue and saying I was going to post it to a consumer
website. The seller *had* to have seen the insect damage to the box and
shipped it anyway. So if it's a bearing whose failure could cause serious
collateral damage, I'd go somewhere other than Ebay and choose a vendor with
a reputation for quality and good customer service.
 

Ask a Question

Want to reply to this thread or ask your own question?

You'll need to choose a username for the site, which only take a couple of moments. After that, you can post your question and our members will help you out.

Ask a Question

Top