what's the point of all this DIY? (house move nightmare)

[Philipj.cosson]

Hi,

I have been a keen DIYer for several years now. I have rennovated 3
houses over 15 years. I can't see how I have caused anyone any
problems. All 3 houses are still standing and are much safer, much
prettier and much more valuable...

Recently I have tried to move to house number 4 - a dilapidated
bungalow. At £225,000 it would leave me £75,000 to do the place up. I
planned new everything and an extension.

This is now not going to happen - cos I can't get a mortgage. I've had
two surveyors round and one said 'the mortgage company would not offer
a mortgage' and the other said 'congratulations, we are pleased to
offer you a mortgage of £190,000... with a retention of £190,000 until
you do the following jobs (proceeded to list all the electics, all the
plumbing, the roof and the walls!)

As a side issue, I am being hastled by my solicitor because I told the
truth on my housemove questionaire. - two windows I had put in in 1999
- 'where is the FENSA certificate?' a steel lintle i had put in in
2000 'where is the building control notice?' a new consumer unit I had
put in by a qualified electician in 2002 'where is the electrical test
certificate'... It will cost me a packet just to get people out to
check all this... Grrr

The little old lady (in her 80's) who lives in this bungalow I was
buying is now going to be disapointed - and instead of getting
£225,000 from me, she will have to put it to auction or take offers
from a developer - which will mean she can't afford the next property
she is really wanting.

Is this really a free country? Can this really be the future? When did
we ever vote on this? Why do DIY chains exist if you can't use the
stuff they sell? How on earth do we change any of this?

Philip

 

[nog]

On 29 Jan 2007 22:28:57 -0800, (e-mail address removed) wrote:

----------------------------8><

Is this really a free country? Can this really be the future? When did
we ever vote on this? Why do DIY chains exist if you can't use the
stuff they sell? How on earth do we change any of this?

Paranoia does tend to wear you down, doesn't it?

 

[FKruger]

Hi,

I have been a keen DIYer for several years now. I have rennovated 3
houses over 15 years. I can't see how I have caused anyone any
problems. All 3 houses are still standing and are much safer, much
prettier and much more valuable...

Recently I have tried to move to house number 4 - a dilapidated
bungalow. At £225,000 it would leave me £75,000 to do the place up. I
planned new everything and an extension.

This is now not going to happen - cos I can't get a mortgage. I've had
two surveyors round and one said 'the mortgage company would not offer
a mortgage' and the other said 'congratulations, we are pleased to
offer you a mortgage of £190,000... with a retention of £190,000 until
you do the following jobs (proceeded to list all the electics, all the
plumbing, the roof and the walls!)

As a side issue, I am being hastled by my solicitor because I told the
truth on my housemove questionaire. - two windows I had put in in 1999
- 'where is the FENSA certificate?' a steel lintle i had put in in
2000 'where is the building control notice?' a new consumer unit I had
put in by a qualified electician in 2002 'where is the electrical test
certificate'... It will cost me a packet just to get people out to
check all this... Grrr

The little old lady (in her 80's) who lives in this bungalow I was
buying is now going to be disapointed - and instead of getting
£225,000 from me, she will have to put it to auction or take offers
from a developer - which will mean she can't afford the next property
she is really wanting.

Is this really a free country? Can this really be the future? When did
we ever vote on this? Why do DIY chains exist if you can't use the
stuff they sell? How on earth do we change any of this?

Philip

You dont need a FENSA certificate for a window installed in 1999, just
show them the invoice for the CU and tell them to take it or leave it.
The lintel is more problematic.

 

[Lobster]

Recently I have tried to move to house number 4 - a dilapidated
bungalow. At £225,000 it would leave me £75,000 to do the place up. I
planned new everything and an extension.

This is now not going to happen - cos I can't get a mortgage. I've had
two surveyors round and one said 'the mortgage company would not offer
a mortgage' and the other said 'congratulations, we are pleased to
offer you a mortgage of £190,000... with a retention of £190,000 until
you do the following jobs (proceeded to list all the electics, all the
plumbing, the roof and the walls!)

I've fallen foul of this myself in the past - property not inhabitable
as defined by the Housing Act therefore 100% mortgage retention, and I
had to walk away. Bloody ridiculous. I'm sure there are lenders out
there who will lend under such circumstances; the trick is to find who
they are before you've paid out on arrangement fees and surveyors etc.

I think you probably need to do it via a bank loan rather than a
mortgage; obviously much more expensive - then work like crazy on the
specific Housing Act criteria until the place can be defined as
'inhabitable' (might need a temporary kitchen sink/toilet/bath
installed; that sort of thing) then apply for a mortgage ASAP.

The fact that rewiring appears to be one of the mortgage criteria would
I have thought make this idea pretty well impossible in the case of your
property though - hard to do a quick lash-up there. :-(

David

 

[Dave Plowman (News)]

The fact that rewiring appears to be one of the mortgage criteria would
I have thought make this idea pretty well impossible in the case of your
property though - hard to do a quick lash-up there. :-(

When I bought this place in the '70s (and mortgages were *far* more
difficult to get) the building society insisted on several works *before*
completion. Rewiring. Attention to a leaking gutter. Woodworm and rot
warranty. Electricity and gas supplies to be on single meters. One kitchen
removed. (It wasn't actually two self contained flats as it was a mother
and daughter that once shared the house, but had two kitchens and metering)
My solicitor arranged for two weeks of access to the by now empty house.
before completion and I took those two weeks off work. A specialist firm
attended to the wet rot and treated all the timber. Good job too. Another
did the guttering. Cowboys. I ripped out one kitchen and did a *very*
basic re-wire onto the one meter disconnecting and removing the other
myself, as the LEB couldn't give me an appointment within the time scale.
Got the gas board to cut and cap the pipe in the cellar going to the
second gas meter and remove it.

Got the mortgage ok. Their surveyor wasn't happy about the fact that I'd
removed the ground floor (original) kitchen and left the upstairs one in
what would have been a bedroom. I explained it was temporary as I wanted
to do a new decent kitchen downstairs and having a temp working one would
be handy - and that he should have specified *exactly* what he wanted. ;-)

It's amazing what can be done in a couple of weeks if you really have to.

 

[Lobster]

Have you tried the Ecology Building Society? I've heard they'll support
projects other lenders won't touch.

http://www.ecology.co.uk/

Thanks a lot for posting this - have bookmarked it!
See http://www.ecology.co.uk/html/mortgages/whatlendon.htm

David

 

[meow2222]

The fact that rewiring appears to be one of the mortgage criteria would
I have thought make this idea pretty well impossible in the case of your
property though - hard to do a quick lash-up there. :-(

David

naa, not hard. One CU, string cable across the wall into each room,
pair of double sockets each, one ceiling light, forget about flush
mouting or neat lines, just tack it quickly to the wall and it'll
serve till a nice neat full system goes in.


NT

 

[John Rumm]

As a side issue, I am being hastled by my solicitor because I told the
truth on my housemove questionaire. - two windows I had put in in 1999
- 'where is the FENSA certificate?'

Remind him it was not a requirement at the time they were installed.

a steel lintle i had put in in
2000 'where is the building control notice?'

Tell him there is not one, and say you will arrange building regs
imdemnity insurance to cover any risk (i.e. none - hence the insurance
is cheap).

a new consumer unit I had
put in by a qualified electician in 2002 'where is the electrical test
certificate'...

Predates part P, so while it would be nice to have the cert, it is not a
requirement. For example you could have done it yourself and produced no
official paperwork and it still would be legal.

It will cost me a packet just to get people out to
check all this... Grrr

Remind you solicitor who he is working for!

The little old lady (in her 80's) who lives in this bungalow I was
buying is now going to be disapointed - and instead of getting
£225,000 from me, she will have to put it to auction or take offers
from a developer - which will mean she can't afford the next property
she is really wanting.

I am sure there will be a "sub prime" lender who specialises in these
sorts of risk (for a price). Have you tried a broker?

Is this really a free country?

nope

 

[Philipj.cosson]

Thanks for posting the link to ecology - they have said to me today
that this is a building that they woulddefinitely like to save from a
developer and would probably offer on!

Unfortunately they only operate a 3x salary multiplier, which we can't
work with on this one!

Philip

 

[Philipj.cosson]

I might be called paranoid if I were warning someone that this might
happen

Not sure I can be called paranoid if this is reallly happening!

 

[gort]

As a side issue, I am being hastled by my solicitor because I told the
truth on my housemove questionaire. - two windows I had put in in 1999
- 'where is the FENSA certificate?' a steel lintle i had put in in
2000 'where is the building control notice?' a new consumer unit I had
put in by a qualified electician in 2002 'where is the electrical test
certificate'... It will cost me a packet just to get people out to
check all this... Grrr

Tell him you will charge him £120 for each one you have to produce. That
will make him focus!

Dave

 

[The Natural Philosopher]

Tell him you will charge him £120 for each one you have to produce. That
will make him focus!

Dave

Oh..I had all this crap when selling my mothers house.

In the end I just said 'I haven't got them. What are you going to do
about it?' With another two people very interested that shut the
bastards up.

Just buy 120 quids worth of liability insurance and give it to the
purchaser.

Tell him to claim against it if there are any issues.

In the end houses are sold 'as seen' and if they don't like it they can
piss off and buy an different one.

The lawyers make money and cover their arses with all this
prevarication. Its their job to point out to their clients all the
things that MIGHT conceivably go badly wrong..like having to demolish an
extension that hasn't got planning permission etc.

 

[Philipj.cosson]

In the end houses are sold 'as seen' and if they don't like it they can
piss off and buy an different one.

Is that still true? - I suppose unless the mortgage has a retention on
it...

Phil

 

[Frank Lee Speke-King]

In the end I just said 'I haven't got them. What are you going to do
about it?' With another two people very interested that shut the
bastards up.

Just buy 120 quids worth of liability insurance and give it to the
purchaser.

Tell him to claim against it if there are any issues.

I like the sound of this approach. Does it work with Part P stuff too?