Transporting 20 gallons of gas in your trunk and storing in your back yard in the open air question


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O

Oren

But I don't think we have been able to answer the second question:
Is it illegal to trasnsport more than 5 gallons (California) in a car?

I'm searching the California codes as we speak and can't find anything
telling me how many 5-gallon gas jugs we can carry in the trunk of a car:
http://law.justia.com/california/codes/veh.html
How many times in the last 20 years or so has a police officer asked
if you were carrying to many gallons of gas in the trunk?

None I bet. Cal DOT is not out there on the roads trying to capture
you.

Moonshine haulin' is another story.
 
C

chaniarts

Steve said:
In my state, and I think they quoted me federal law, you can have no
more than a 125 gallon tank within close range to a structure. That
is why the tanks are 124 gallons. I know, I went to buy one on a
kitchen remodel. That is why we did not go with the big tank -
distance. If you have that much stored that close, you are in
violation. You should check on that before a concerned neighbor does.
every house in my neighborhood has one larger than 125 quite close to the
house (there is no nat gas in the area and it's out in the sticks). i have a
500g tank buried about 20ft from my garage. it was inspected by both the
town and fire dept when the house was built.
 
J

jgar the jorrible

How many times in the last 20 years or so has a police officer asked
if you were carrying to many gallons of gas in the trunk?

None I bet. Cal DOT is not out there on the roads trying to capture
you.

Moonshine haulin' is another story.
This is the kind of thing I think of when I see Swedish police (or
whoever that was) using a harpoon into the trunk to stop cars. Oh
sorry, Finland: http://www.jewishworldreview.com/dave/barry012207.php3

During the first gas crisis, my brother bought a truckload of 6 gallon
containers, which we filled and kept for his business in a shed
attached to the back of the building. It was in a commercial building
next to an elementary school that backed up to an apartment complex
carport. A few years later, some drug dealers bombed a car in the
carport, burning down the shed. Or so I was told. I still use one.
Container that is.

When I was in college, I remember a professor died and they had to
call in a bomb squad robot when they found some old reagent grade
peroxide on a shelf. It seems some materials form long, unstable
chains when left standing for a long time, becoming extremely
explosive like the old cartoon nitroglycerin. Gas just turns to
varnish, I can tell you from experience.

jg
 
T

TimR

I'm sorry if I confused you with specific terms.

Steve

visit my blog athttp://cabgbypasssurgery.com
You didn't confuse me with specific terms.

You confused me by stating that a BLEVE is rapid combustion.

I have always believed a BLEVE does not require combustion.

The wiki article I just googled confirms my belief.

Obviously you do not agree, so perhaps you would explain why.
 
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S

Smitty Two

LM said:
Still, I can't find what the laws are for California for transportation.
The Caltrans (DOT) site was miserable.
Maybe it isn't the right place to look. The first paragraph of the
"About" page reads:

"Caltrans manages more than 50,000 miles of California's highway and
freeway lanes, provides inter-city rail services, permits more than 400
public-use airports and special-use hospital heliports, and works with
local agencies. Caltrans carries out its mission of improving mobility
across California with six primary programs: Aeronautics, Highway
Transportation, Mass Transportation, Transportation Planning,
Administration and the Equipment Service Center."

Doesn't sound to me like they make laws.
 
S

Smitty Two

Steve B said:
Then humans enter the equation, and, well, you know humans.
Yep. Unpredictable at best. OP or the neighbor is gonna be shooting at a
squirrel for dinner or a rat to dispatch it, just after dusk. Oh, shit,
I forgot about those gas cans ...
 
E

Evan

Maybe it isn't the right place to look. The first paragraph of the
"About" page reads:

"Caltrans manages more than 50,000 miles of California's highway and
freeway lanes, provides inter-city rail services, permits more than 400
public-use airports and special-use hospital heliports, and works with
local agencies. Caltrans carries out its mission of improving mobility
across California with six primary programs: Aeronautics, Highway
Transportation, Mass Transportation, Transportation Planning,
Administration and the Equipment Service Center."

Doesn't sound to me like they make laws.

Absolutely... The make administrative laws which govern how your
car has to be inspected and what items must be inspected to get
your sticker... Also how the roadways and railways under their
jurisdiction are used... Lots of things are covered under
administrative
law...

~~ Evan
 
M

mkirsch1

But how do you get the clandestine 5 five gallon gas cans into the trunk at
the gas station without anyone seeing you?
That's not illegal, dumbass. Pay attention.

Gas must be transported in an open vehicle (i.e. pickup truck bed), or
in an enclosed area separate from the passenger compartment (i.e. a
car trunk).

It is illegal to haul gas in a vehicle that does NOT have a
compartment separate from the passengers. Vehicles like a minivan, or
SUV, or station wagon.
 
M

mkirsch1

mdouche1 has his head up his ass!
Touchy, are we?
Gasoline is one of the most explosive flammables around.  It will
ignite easily, it will explode violently.  Hence, its overwhelming
popularity as the fuel of choice in internal combustion engines.
NOTHING does it better!  (well, nitro ;)
You can drop a lit match into a bucket of liquid gasoline. It will not
explode. It will not burn. The match will go out.

Gasoline is only explosive when you spray a teeny tiny bit of it into
a chamber with a whole bunch of oxygen, squeeze the hell out of it,
and then throw in a spark.

Gasoline vapor in open air BURNS, but it has to be under the right
conditions, which are rarely present at an accident scene.

Keep watching those B-grade car chase action movies and thinking that
everything that happens is real.
 
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B

Bill Murphy

It is illegal to haul gas in a vehicle that does NOT have a
compartment separate from the passengers. Vehicles like a minivan, or
SUV, or station wagon.
Laws differ by state. I'm just trying to find the details of "that law" you
quote.

Just as leaving your vehicle for the purpose of refueling is illegal in
some states (NJ for example); or placing anything, like a GPS, on your
windshield is illegal in some states (California, for example); and having
your OBDII DTC codes scanned for free by the auto parts stores is illegal
in some states (Hawaii, for example); and using a radar detector is illegal
in some states (Virginia?) ... gasoline temporary storage and
transportation laws are certain to differ in various states.

Isn't there a single California lawyer on the USENET?

Can anyone find a California law that regulates the storage and
transportation of 5-gallon jugs of gasoline for personal use?
 
B

Bill Murphy

I doubt a copper/lead bullet piercing a gas can would ignite one.
(anyone care to experiment for the group? :cool: )

http://mythbustersresults.com/episode15

If a bullet is shot through the fuel tank of a car, it will explode.

busted

The gas tank did not explode.

(This myth was revisited in episode 38 and it was found to be plausible if
the tank is shot with a tracer round.)

http://mythbustersresults.com/episode38


REVISITED: A gas tank will explode when shot by a bullet. (From Episode 15)

busted

It has already been proven that when shot by a normal bullet a gasoline
tank will not explode. However, if a gasoline tank is shot by a tracer
round from a great enough distance so that the round can ignite with air
friction, it will cause the gasoline to catch fire. By the time this
happened the tank was so riddled with bullets (from previous tracers that
were fired too close to ignite) that there was no contained pressure, but
the MythBusters surmised that had the tank been properly enclosed, it may
have exploded; but overall it remains extremely improbable.
 
Y

yetanothermickey

http://mythbustersresults.com/episode15

If a bullet is shot through the fuel tank of a car, it will explode.

busted

The gas tank did not explode.

(This myth was revisited in episode 38 and it was found to be plausible if
the tank is shot with a tracer round.)

http://mythbustersresults.com/episode38


REVISITED: A gas tank will explode when shot by a bullet. (From Episode 15)

busted

It has already been proven that when shot by a normal bullet a gasoline
tank will not explode. However, if a gasoline tank is shot by a tracer
round from a great enough distance so that the round can ignite with air
friction, it will cause the gasoline to catch fire. By the time this
happened the tank was so riddled with bullets (from previous tracers that
were fired too close to ignite) that there was no contained pressure, but
the MythBusters surmised that had the tank been properly enclosed, it may
have exploded; but overall it remains extremely improbable.

The site lists no details. Was the tank full, or almost empty for the
test? What was the ambient temperature?
 
B

Bill Murphy

The site lists no details. Was the tank full, or almost empty for the
test? What was the ambient temperature?
Details would have been in the MythBusters show itself. I'm sure a YouTube
exerpt might exist if you need those details.

The point is, the suggestion that a "hunter's round" will accidentally
explode plastic gas cans sitting outside is so highly unlikely, maybe even
impossible, as to not be a reasonable fear.

Gasoline is very dangerous. We all know that. A leak is not good, for
example. But we manage that danger every single day (almost all of us keep
about 40 gallons in the garage every night, for example).

To date, nobody on this planet (not even me, after extensive searches
already listed) can reference a single California law that regulates the
home storage and vehicle transporation of five gallon jugs of gasoline in a
car trunk.
 
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C

chuckcar

They are certified EPA spillproof leakproof kidproof red plastic
gasoline cans. Gas goes in. Never comes out.

The only opening is the spout. It has special "engineering" to not let
the gas out. Gas only develops about 20psi when heated under the hot
sun so that's not enough to blow up the can
(http://www.blitzusa.com/faq.htm).

There was a test of the Blitz cans on the web (gotta dig for it) which
showed absolutely zero weight loss (they measure weight not volume)
for a can out in the sun for a year IIRC. When compared to the
"vented" can, the Blitz won.

Of course, it's a B*TC* to get the gasoline OUT of the can, but that's
a whole nother topic.
Man, that must have been some lawsuit. Prime candidate for the darwin
awards I'd bet.
 
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P

Paul Robinson

I'm trying. I really am. I want to know myself what the law is.

I gave up on the California DOT (aka Caltrans) web site as its search
mechanism is a mess.

I googled for "California law gasoline portable storage container
transportation and storage"
Try "California definition "hazardous waste"

This site

http://ccelearn.csus.edu/wasteclass/mod2/mod2_01.html

gave this definition:

“waste” is a material that has been used or has otherwise served its
intended purpose and, for whatever reason, can or will no longer be
used. In the Title 22 CCR, a waste is defined as any discarded
material (in any form, such as solid, liquid, semi-solid, or contained
gas) that is not excluded by Section 66261.4(a), 66261.4(e), or
25143.2(b) or 25143.2(d).

So my prior comment was correct: as long as it is still fit for use
and is not effectively "discarded" it's not waste. Now what you have
to worry about is the limit for storing inflammables.

This search

california maximum gasoline storage limit

Produced this page from Chevron:
http://www.chevron.com/products/prodserv/fuels/technical_safety_bulletins/ltg_storage.aspx

With this quote:

One and two and five gallon containers should carry a sticker
indicating they are approved for gasoline storage by the Underwriters
Laboratories (UL). A plastic container has the advantage that it will
not rust if the gasoline is contaminated with water or if the
container is stored in a wet place.

A 60-gallon metal drum is the only container approved by the Uniform
Fire Code for the storage of more than five gallons of gasoline.

The Uniform Fire Code limits the amount of gasoline in residential
buildings to the amount "necessary for maintenance purposes and
operation of equipment," not to exceed a maximum of 25 gallons.

Note that local Fire Department regulations may supersede the Uniform
Fire Code. When storing more that five gallons of gasoline it is best
to check with your local Fire Department for local regulations.

So there is no problem for 5 gallons, you probably won't have a
problem up to 25 - which is 5 five-gallon cans - but if it's more than
that you are going to need to use a drum and probably a local permit
or ok from the Fire Marshall.
 

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