Transporting 20 gallons of gas in your trunk and storing in your back yard in the open air question


S

salty

-1 on that.

It's been PROVEN time and again that those "gasoline explosions" you
see in movies are not realistic. They are staged using pyrotechnics.

The expose of Dateline NBC's "expose" of the 73-87 GM truck tanks is a
classic example.

In a collision that breaches the fuel tank, the fuel dribbles out on
the ground and nothing happens. The fumes are too concentrated to
ignite, and they quickly dissipate to where there aren't enough fumes
to ignite.
I once witnessed a 36 foot cabin cruiser with twin gasoline inboard
engines, blow up and burn completely to the waterline in a matter of
about 10 minutes from start to finish. It exploded in a fireball
worthy of any James Bond movie.
 
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S

salty

mdouche1 has his head up his ass!

Gasoline is one of the most explosive flammables around. It will
ignite easily, it will explode violently. Hence, its overwhelming
popularity as the fuel of choice in internal combustion engines.
NOTHING does it better! (well, nitro ;)
1 ounce of gasoline vapor = 1 pound of dynamite
 
S

salty

I've never seen a direct equivalency, but as an ex-fireman, I'm well
aware of it's potency. The number of ppl who've died or suffered
horrible burns using gasoline as a cleaning solvent are legion. Bad
mojo, indeed.

nb
I've often seen it expressed as 1 ounce of gasoline vapor = 20 sticks
of dynamite, as well. I believe for gaoline to "explode" by technical
specifications, it must be compressed vapor.

If the gasoline vapor is not confined and/or compressed, it creates a
fireball, but probably not an explosion. To the person in close
proximity, that probably won't make much difference. They will be in
deep trouble.
 
R

ransley

1 ounce of gasoline vapor = 1 pound of dynamite- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -
I sure thats 1 gallon of gasolene vapor not 1 ounce
 
J

Jim Rusling

Bullshit...the neighbor has legitimate concerns. 20 gallons of
gasoline in jerry cans stored in a trunk of a car is NOT safe. If
stored in a locked garden shed isolated from all buildings or fences
it would be much safer but not ideal. Residential areas are not
designed for the storage of volatile liquids especially in the
quantities mentioned. I would not store more than 2 gallons at the
most...this would be adequate for lawnmower and weedeater usage.
People who do what THEY want and disregard OTHERS are just selfish
jerks. I have lived next to these kinds of people in the past and
believe me, it is no picnic.
My gas mowers, edger's, generator, and so on probably hold more than
30 gallons. I normally keep 15 to 25 gallons on hand all the time to
feed all of those small engines. Most of my gas engines have 2 to 5
gallon gas tanks.
 
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S

Smitty Two

HeyBub said:
Here's what we used to do to people we didn't like:

1. Turn off the lights in their office.
2. Remove the florescent bulbs
3. Drill a 1/16" hole in the end of the tube (have spares - some will
break).
4. With a funnel, dribble 1 tablespoon of gasoline into the tube.
5. Seal the hole with caulk.
6. Replace tube and leave.

Ever seen a volcano erupt downward?
Was this in your official capacity as a LEO?
 
R

Roy

My gas mowers, edger's, generator, and so on probably hold more than
30 gallons.  I normally keep 15 to 25 gallons on hand all the time to
feed all of those small engines.  Most of my gas engines have 2 to 5
gallon gas tanks.
==
An acreage or small farm will naturally require more maintenance and
of course more gasoline or diesel. I have a 300 gallon gas tank but
the average city lot isn't that large that such reserves are required.
Close neighbors have to be in the equation.
==
 
C

chuckcar

I have a typical back yard, open mostly to the sun, where I store five
5-gallon jerry jugs of gasoline for my bikes and equipment and
off-road vehicles.

I don't see that it's all that much of a danger, considering we keep
two cars in the garage with twice that much gasoline essentially
inside the house - while this is outside along the fence.

But, my neighbor noticed the four jugs recently and asked about them.
I said I never knew gas to spontaneously explode and he said the sun
could cause it to happen. He also said it's illegal to transport more
than a single five-gallon can in your trunk (is that true?).

Is it all that dangerous to keep 20 gallons of gas in the back yard?
Is it illegal to trasnsport more than 5 gallons (California) in a car?
Do they have vent holes and/or pour spouts? If so, take the spouts out
and loosen take off the vent cap. I had a gas can (1 gallon for the
mower) that I didn't do that when I got gas at the beginning of the
year. Once it warmed up, the vapour pressure forced the gas out the top
even though it was tightly sealed. There was a gasoline smell for two
days and it could easily have lit from open flame. If your neighbour had
smelled that.. Well who wants the fire dept. and city on their tail?

BTW I live in Ontario on the other side of the border. Far farther north than
you, so less heat and different laws. We have red plastic cans here.
 
M

mm

Absolutely. AFA the neighbor and I know, these could blow up and send
shrapnel all over his yard. If that's possible, the OP should know it
too, and if it's not, the OP shoould be able to relay this info to the
neighbor. He'd be a fool not to raise the subject.
My gas mowers, edger's, generator, and so on probably hold more than
30 gallons. I normally keep 15 to 25 gallons on hand all the time to
feed all of those small engines. Most of my gas engines have 2 to 5
gallon gas tanks.
But those are are all little, separate tanks, vented gas tanks. If one
goes, it won't take the others with it (except in action movies).
 
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F

FatterDumber& Happier Moe

Bill said:
I have a typical back yard, open mostly to the sun, where I store five
5-gallon jerry jugs of gasoline for my bikes and equipment and off-road
vehicles.

I don't see that it's all that much of a danger, considering we keep two
cars in the garage with twice that much gasoline essentially inside the
house - while this is outside along the fence.

But, my neighbor noticed the four jugs recently and asked about them. I
said I never knew gas to spontaneously explode and he said the sun could
cause it to happen. He also said it's illegal to transport more than a
single five-gallon can in your trunk (is that true?).

Is it all that dangerous to keep 20 gallons of gas in the back yard?
Is it illegal to trasnsport more than 5 gallons (California) in a car?
Just how smart is this neighbor? Free gas and you ought to put a case
of beer with it.
 
S

salty

even compressed in a perfect mixture (ie gasoline engine) it STILL does
not explode. It is, however, a rapid burning action.
Rapid oxidation is the essential definition of explosion, Steve.
 
S

salty

it did not explode. Not with just gasoline. You may have witnessed a
rapid burning, but not an explosion.
Then why did the two people onboard land 30 feet away in the water
with broken bones?

(they survived)
 
J

Jim Elbrecht

Steve B said:
Strictly put, there are a lot of terms regarding "explosions".

You refer to explosive materials, such as C4. Explosives are rated at feet
per second. C4, IIRC is somewhere around 26,400 fps, which means that if
you put 26,400 feet of it out there, it takes one second to go from one end
to the other. It is not sensitive to impact or friction.
Or flame. We used to use pieces- 1/4 golf ball size?- to heat
C-rations. It has been a *very* long time- but if I remember right
a chunk would burn for 1/2 minute or so and boil a can of beans and
franks. [too hot for the spaghetti & meatballs]
And technically,
it does not explode, rather detonates is the proper term.
I never understood exactly what a detonator did -- but they scared the
crap out of me. C4 was silly putty that burned.

-snip-
I note that the Wiki page says C4 will explode if stomped on while
burning. That was 'common knowledge' in 1969 when I was a foolish
lad of 18. We tried to detonate it by stomping & by throwing large
rocks on it while burning. I never saw anything but a blasting cap
detonate C4.

-snip-
In common language, an explosion is anything that goes boom. In technical
talk, there are all sorts of levels of boom.

Conflagration would best describe the sparking off of twenty gallons of gas.
What would be the term for the 'whoosh' of the vapors that can lift
buildings off their foundations?

Gas is pretty safe-- it's the vapors that kill you.

Jim
 
E

Evan

I have a typical back yard, open mostly to the sun, where I store five
5-gallon jerry jugs of gasoline for my bikes and equipment and off-road
vehicles.

I don't see that it's all that much of a danger, considering we keep two
cars in the garage with twice that much gasoline essentially inside the
house - while this is outside along the fence.

But, my neighbor noticed the four jugs recently and asked about them. I
said I never knew gas to spontaneously explode and he said the sun could
cause it to happen. He also said it's illegal to transport more than a
single five-gallon can in your trunk (is that true?).

Is it all that dangerous to keep 20 gallons of gas in the back yard?
Is it illegal to trasnsport more than 5 gallons (California) in a car?


Yes it is dangerous to keep that much gasoline stored in your
backyard... Especially in gas cans... You never know what
is going to happen to it, rather than it falling prey to some sort
of spontaneous combustion, it is more likely that it will get
spilled by someone creating a hazardous materials incident,
or that it will be stolen, tampered with by someone adding
something which will hurt your engines to it, or it could be
set on fire as an act of arson/vandalism... You would be
liable for leaving this gasoline out as at "attractive nuisance"
if someone were to spill it or make use of it for arson...

If you want to store and haul more than 20 gallons of fuel at
a time -- here is a question: I assume that you have some
sort of a pick up truck to haul around your bikes and off-road
vehicles... Yes ?

Purchase a "fuel transfer tank" for the bed of your pick-up
truck... Like one of these:

http://www.nextag.com/pickup-bed-fuel-tank/products-html

You will need to obtain a permit for it and have it inspected
periodically to transport that much fuel outside of the
vehicles actual fuel tank...

That is the best way to go... Rather than having a collection
of gasoline containers just hanging around in your yard...

~~ Evan
 
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B

Bill Murphy

I'd try to make a shaded location ... to minimize the chances of
lifting the safety relief on a hot day of a full can
These are the new Blitz enviroflow cans. I don't think they have a safety
release.

I guess they must, but they've been tested to not leak one bit subject to
the hottest temperatures possible out in the sun for a year and they didn't
lose an ounce (they measure gas loss by weight, not volume since it expands
so much).

I always fill to the fill line and no more so I think there is no release
(which I know is contrarian thinking) engineered into these cans.

I guess if someone artificially heats them to something over 200 degrees,
they might have a release, but as far as I know, the tests show they hold
their gas (the problem is getting it out, not keeping it in).
 
O

Orak Listalavostok

It's been PROVEN time and again that those "gasoline explosions" you
see in movies are not realistic. They are staged using pyrotechnics.
I'm sure fuel ignites, eventually, but I remember a MythBusters episode
where they just couldn't get gasoline to light from a cigarette (IIRC).

OK. I looked it up. MythBusters Holleywood on Trial #7:
It is possible to ignite a pool of gasoline using only a cigarette.

partly plausible

A cigarette has the potential to light a pool of gasoline but just doesn¢t
have enough sustained heat. Gas ignites between 500 °F and 540 °F, the
cigarette at its hottest was between 450 °F and 500 °F but only when it was
actually being smoked. An ignition is very improbable.
 
B

Bill Murphy

Do they have vent holes and/or pour spouts?
They are certified EPA spillproof leakproof kidproof red plastic gasoline
cans. Gas goes in. Never comes out.

The only opening is the spout. It has special "engineering" to not let the
gas out. Gas only develops about 20psi when heated under the hot sun so
that's not enough to blow up the can (http://www.blitzusa.com/faq.htm).

There was a test of the Blitz cans on the web (gotta dig for it) which
showed absolutely zero weight loss (they measure weight not volume) for a
can out in the sun for a year IIRC. When compared to the "vented" can, the
Blitz won.

Of course, it's a B*TC* to get the gasoline OUT of the can, but that's a
whole nother topic.
 
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S

salty

I sure thats 1 gallon of gasolene vapor not 1 ounce

reply: He's obviously not stating correct information. To say that a car
cannot ignite from the force of a collision is plain ignorant. I saved a
guy's life one time on the freeway. His car stalled, and he was rear-ended
and boom, a fireball. We pulled him out through the driver's window.

I wish he would post the site where the equivalent of gasoline vapor to
dynamite is stated by a professional.

I googled "gasoline vapor equals dynamite" and got this very knowledgeable
answer that explains it all.

http://forums.howwhatwhy.com/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=weapons&Number=-277570

Too bad the other poster already knows everything, and won't allow any new
information in, or information that is different than what he "thinks" he
knows.

Steve
The NFPA says gasoline vapor can explode. They also say that sugar
dust can explode, as can sawdust.

Go argue with THEM.
 

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