The adverse effects of legislating efficiency:

[recyclebinned]

One could argue that the legislation that raised the minimum efficiency of air conditioners and heat pumps to 13 SEER resulted in thinner tubing walls, more evaporator coils leaks, and, as a result, more ozone-damaging freon released into the atmosphere.

http://www.watkinsheating.com/blog/the_cause_of_freon_leaks/

 

[Dan Espen]

One could argue that the legislation that raised the minimum efficiency of air conditioners and heat pumps to 13 SEER resulted in thinner tubing walls, more evaporator coils leaks, and, as a result, more ozone-damaging freon released into the atmosphere.

http://www.watkinsheating.com/blog/the_cause_of_freon_leaks/

Freon used in air conditioners is no longer the ozone-damaging kind:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freon

(another effect of legislation)

 

[Tegger]

wrote in

One could argue that the legislation that raised the minimum efficiency of air conditioners and heat pumps to 13 SEER resulted in thinner tubing walls, more evaporator coils leaks, and, as a result, more ozone-damaging freon released into the atmosphere.

http://www.watkinsheating.com/blog/the_cause_of_freon_leaks/

You're posting the comment above as though you wrote it yourself. It is in fact a quote from the page you referenced aftwards. There is a correct way to quote excerpts from a reference, and what you did isn't it.

I find it odd that the article talks repeatedly about formaldehyde corrosion, but then includes a photograph of corrosion caused by salt- spray. Huh?

 

[Frank (archive)]

Netpick!

Freon is a brand name, a company that makes (or
used to make) refrigerants. The same refrigerants
were made by Genetron, Isotron, Forane, and
perhaps other companies.

Saying "Freon" is like saying Sunoco, or saying
Tylenol, or Kleenex. It's a brand name.

Further, there are several different types of
Freon, like there are different types of Sunoco,
or of Tylenol.

.
Christopher A. Young
Learn about Jesus
www.lds.org
.

Freon is DuPont's trade name for their refrigerants:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freon

Chloro fluoro carbon compounds were banned as ozone depleting substances and replaced by fluoro carbons without chlorine. Chloro carbons like carbon tet also fell under the ban.

 

[trader4]

Which had its own unintended consequences. I used to do fire

investigations in a heavily Amish area right about the time the Carbon

tet ban was taking effect. The Amish, among others, used it heavily in

their chimney fires.

So, we rolled up on this pretty well gutted house and found 2-3

regular fire extinguishers just sitting there full loaded in the

fireplace. The chief told us that he was going to have a couple of fire

extinguisher sessions at the local Amish hall to let them know that you

couldn't just throw them into the fireplace, have them bust open and

take care of the fire.

--

I'm not sure I get this.... I remember the old carbon tetrachloride fire extinguishers that you pumped to squirt it on the fire. You're saying the Amish would just throw the whole thing in a fire to put it out? And that they then thought it would work with other fire extinguishers too? Even with carbon tet, it would take a while for the heat to cause it to finally burst. In the meantime, the fire spreads. Not a very effective way of using it. And throwing the fire extinguisher in the fire would destroy a perfectly good extinguisher that could be refilled.
Really dumb.

 

[Oren]

I think you could toss a glass bottle of carbon tet and have it break open. I recall glass "bombs" in holders for that purpose.

Pawn Stars had an episode when a customer brought some of these in. Very old but not practical to use today

ISTR the pawn shop bought them for vintage historical reasons.

Seems they hung on a wall and tossed when needed for a fire.

Called a glass ball fire extinguisher grenade.

Sample:

<http://cdn2.armslist.com/sites/arms...531_01_2_vintage_red_comet_glass_fire_640.jpg>

 

[bud--]

Netpick!

Freon is a brand name, a company that makes (or
used to make) refrigerants. The same refrigerants
were made by Genetron, Isotron, Forane, and
perhaps other companies.

Saying "Freon" is like saying Sunoco, or saying
Tylenol, or Kleenex. It's a brand name.

"Freon" is pretty much like aspirin, xerox copy, kleenex, BX, Romex, ... All are brand names that are effectively generic now.

Further, there are several different types of
Freon, like there are different types of Sunoco,
or of Tylenol.

"Freon" can apply to all of them.

 

[bud--]

That's a real shame. To lose a house, cause no one
showed them how a fire extinguisher of that design
works.

RTFM?

 

[The Daring Dufas]

One could argue that the legislation that raised the minimum efficiency of air conditioners and heat pumps to 13 SEER resulted in thinner tubing walls, more evaporator coils leaks, and, as a result, more ozone-damaging freon released into the atmosphere.

http://www.watkinsheating.com/blog/the_cause_of_freon_leaks/

The "Law Of Unintended Results" always applies to anything Congress gets involved with.

TDD

 

[Generic Person]

I'm not normally on the computer at 6:23 AM but
I had to take a sudafed for my congestion.
Except that my sudafed was store brand. Sigh.

The daytime cough and cold mixture has a couple
milligrams of freon mixed in, Tylenol you know.

This is a fun email. Might print it out, and make
a couple freons. Before I blow my nose on a freon.

Yo bro, try mixing in some Skittles and iced tea with your Freon Sudafed cocktail. ;-)

 

[trader4]

Yep. It has been awhile and I forgot to make the distinctions.

--

K, I never saw one of those, only the carbon tet ones that were cylinders with a pump handle on the end. Makes more sense now. But... man you'd have to be really, really dumb to not realize the difference between a glass bottle type intended to shatter and steel cylinders with a trigger, hose, etc. I guess if a fire truck were available, they'd drive that into the fire too.

 

[krw]

"Freon" is pretty much like aspirin, xerox copy, kleenex, BX, Romex, ... All are brand names that are effectively generic now.

"Freon" gets the pedantophiles all lathered up, though.

 

[recyclebinned]

wrote in

You're posting the comment above as though you wrote it yourself. It is in

fact a quote from the page you referenced aftwards. There is a correct way

to quote excerpts from a reference, and what you did isn't it.

I find it odd that the article talks repeatedly about formaldehyde

corrosion, but then includes a photograph of corrosion caused by salt-

spray. Huh?

What makes you think I didn't write it?

 

[Tegger]

wrote in

What makes you think I didn't write it?

If you did, then can you explain why you'd illustrate a story having to do with formaldehyde corrosion with a picture of salt-water corrosion?

 

[harryagain]

One could argue that the legislation that raised the minimum efficiency of air conditioners and heat pumps to 13 SEER resulted in thinner tubing walls, more evaporator coils leaks, and, as a result, more ozone-damaging freon released into the atmosphere.

http://www.watkinsheating.com/blog/the_cause_of_freon_leaks/

The term "efficiency" is not applicable to heat pumps.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coefficient_of_performance

The Ceofficient of performance is unrelated toany of the things you mention.

If there are leaks, it is down to poor design/assembly.

 

[The Daring Dufas]

The term "efficiency" is not applicable to heat pumps.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coefficient_of_performance

The Ceofficient of performance is unrelated toany of the things you mention.

If there are leaks, it is down to poor design/assembly.

Yea, the leaking units are probably designed and manufactured by drunk Limeys in The U.K. ^_^

TDD

 

[krw]

The term "efficiency" is not applicable to heat pumps.

As usual, you're full of shit, harry.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coefficient_of_performance

Q/W sure sounds like "efficiency" to me, harry. The units for 'Q' and 'W' commonly used may not be the same but they drop out in the arithmetic.

The Ceofficient of performance is unrelated toany of the things you mention.

More bullshit from harry.

 

[trader4]

The term "efficiency" is not applicable to heat pumps.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coefficient_of_performance

What do you think one of the E's in SEER stands for? Look it up.

The Ceofficient of performance is unrelated toany of the things you mention.

More nonsense. If you use thinner tubing, then for the same size heat exchanger you can transfer more heat which effect the COP.

 

[bob haller]

that increased efficeny benefits everyone

for the user of the AC, or any appliance it saves money for electricity

even people that havent purchased a new higher efficency whatever benefit, the lower energy use saves electricity, which helps to prevent more power plants building which costs very big bucks...

 

[recyclebinned]

that increased efficeny benefits everyone

for the user of the AC, or any appliance it saves money for electricity

even people that havent purchased a new higher efficency whatever benefit, the lower energy use saves electricity, which helps to prevent more power plants building which costs very big bucks...

The money you save on electricity is paid to me in big bucks to repair, add or replace, THANK YOU VERY MUCH.