Riello Burner Ignition Problems


T

Tom

I have a Bryant Oil Furnace with a Riello F5 Burner. The Furnace is
only about 3 years old, but for the last several months it has had a
intermittent problem with ignition. Thermostat ok, but burner fails to
start. The problem occurs maybe 3 time a week. My oil company has
tried all kinds of fixes. First they just replaced the nozzle, then
they added in line filters, then the replaced the control box (Box
that has the reset button integrated into it)...no luck.

Interesting enough, when the furnace fails to start it does not trip
the reset button....if you hit the reset button nothing happens. They
way you have to restart it is by turning off the main on/off switch
next to the burner. Its a red on off switch mounted on the outside of
the furnace. When the furnace fails to start you just turn the switch
to "off" and then to "on" and it fires right up and off you go. Once
it goes you have no poblems for several days.

Everything else about the furnace is fine, its clean and quiet. I have
regular services and cleanings as well.

This sure seems like an electrical problem, but they did replace the
Riello control box...what are the other components that could be
failing?

Appreciate any ideas, I had to travel for a two days last week and
returned to a 38 degree house,


Thanks!
 
P

pjm

I have a Bryant Oil Furnace with a Riello F5 Burner. The Furnace is
only about 3 years old, but for the last several months it has had a
intermittent problem with ignition. Thermostat ok, but burner fails to
start. The problem occurs maybe 3 time a week. My oil company has
tried all kinds of fixes. First they just replaced the nozzle, then
they added in line filters, then the replaced the control box (Box
that has the reset button integrated into it)...no luck.

Interesting enough, when the furnace fails to start it does not trip
the reset button....if you hit the reset button nothing happens. They
way you have to restart it is by turning off the main on/off switch
next to the burner. Its a red on off switch mounted on the outside of
the furnace. When the furnace fails to start you just turn the switch
to "off" and then to "on" and it fires right up and off you go. Once
it goes you have no poblems for several days.

Everything else about the furnace is fine, its clean and quiet. I have
regular services and cleanings as well.

This sure seems like an electrical problem, but they did replace the
Riello control box...what are the other components that could be
failing?

Appreciate any ideas, I had to travel for a two days last week and
returned to a 38 degree house,


Thanks!
Could be the fan limit.



Paul ( pjm @ pobox . com ) - remove spaces to email me
'Some days, it's just not worth chewing through the restraints,
ya know ?'

HVAC/R program for Palm PDA's
Free demo now available online !! http://pmilligan.net/palm/
Free superheat charts for 38 Ref's online at http://pmilligan.net/pmtherm/
 
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E

EricL

Tom said:
I have a Bryant Oil Furnace with a Riello F5 Burner. The Furnace is
only about 3 years old, but for the last several months it has had a
intermittent problem with ignition. Thermostat ok, but burner fails to
start. The problem occurs maybe 3 time a week. My oil company has
tried all kinds of fixes. First they just replaced the nozzle, then
they added in line filters, then the replaced the control box (Box
that has the reset button integrated into it)...no luck.

Interesting enough, when the furnace fails to start it does not trip
the reset button....if you hit the reset button nothing happens. They
way you have to restart it is by turning off the main on/off switch
next to the burner. Its a red on off switch mounted on the outside of
the furnace. When the furnace fails to start you just turn the switch
to "off" and then to "on" and it fires right up and off you go. Once
it goes you have no poblems for several days.

Everything else about the furnace is fine, its clean and quiet. I have
regular services and cleanings as well.

This sure seems like an electrical problem, but they did replace the
Riello control box...what are the other components that could be
failing?
On the F5 you apply 120V to the control box. If the 120V doesn't come to it,
the burner wont start. So using my crystal ball, i can maybe guess that you
have an open fan limit or a bad burner relay.
 
H

harry

Hi Guys:
I had a strange situation with an ignmition coil, and this is a
new one:
One: When I tip it back, the pump motor does not turn, or does the
ignition work. I don't know if there is a tilt mechanism in the
transformer or not, but it didn't do tjhis with the old transformer.
Two: A service tech just swapped this transformer out with another new
one (bill $150+) and the heater still doesn't work.

There may be some current sensing circuits in the control box, that
might sense a bad transformer, but I don't think so. Might explain
your situation..
Harry
 
P

pjm

Hi Guys:
I had a strange situation with an ignmition coil, and this is a
new one:
One: When I tip it back, the pump motor does not turn, or does the
ignition work. I don't know if there is a tilt mechanism in the
transformer or not, but it didn't do tjhis with the old transformer.
Two: A service tech just swapped this transformer out with another new
one (bill $150+) and the heater still doesn't work.
Step # 1 - get the old transformer put back in, and get your $
150 back. They are not entitled to bill you for parts or labor that
don't fix the problem.

Step # 2 - get a competent tech in to fix the thing.
There may be some current sensing circuits in the control box, that
might sense a bad transformer, but I don't think so. Might explain
your situation..
Harry

Paul ( pjm @ pobox . com ) - remove spaces to email me
'Some days, it's just not worth chewing through the restraints.'

HVAC/R program for Palm PDA's
Free demo now available online !! http://pmilligan.net/palm/
Free superheat charts for 38 Ref's online at http://pmilligan.net/pmtherm/
 
S

Steve Scott

Hi Guys:
I had a strange situation with an ignmition coil, and this is a
new one:
One: When I tip it back, the pump motor does not turn, or does the
ignition work. I don't know if there is a tilt mechanism in the
transformer or not, but it didn't do tjhis with the old transformer.
The circuitry in the cad cell relay (primary control) prevents power
to the orange lead if the cad cell "sees" light.
Two: A service tech just swapped this transformer out with another new
one (bill $150+) and the heater still doesn't work.
Did he test the transformer with a tester, with a screwdriver or not
at all. In any case what was the problem?
 
C

CBhvac

Could be the fan limit.
Had a cad today like that...and then I had a damn old Suntek that was 1750
RPM CCW and be damned if I had one on the van...but the cad thought that
after shutdown, there was flame, and would not allow the box to
fire...replaced it, and bingo..back in biz..
 
S

Steve Scott

I wasn't sure if you meant you didn't have a 1725 SunTec pump or the
primary control. But, FWIW, we just carry 1725 pumps. They will work
fine on a 1725 or 3450 motor. Just can't use a 3450 with a 1725
motor.
 
S

Steve Scott

Remember one when I first got in a service truck. Couldn't get the blame thing
to do anything. The service manager came over and turned off my light and the
thing started fine. I had the thing opened up with a drop light hanging there
trying to check the transformer.
We pull the eye to test the transformer. Several years back my son
and I were servicing a unit. He was fairly new to service work and we
were testing a transformer's output. I had him hook the tester up
while I went to the panel to turn the power on when he was ready. He
gave me the okay and I turned the power on whereupon he yelped. Seems
he'd gotten a none too gentle reminder about how close you don't want
to keep your hands near a transformer.

You know it seems it doesn't matter how often dad tells them
something. Some times they just have to learn on their own. :)
 
P

pjm

We pull the eye to test the transformer. Several years back my son
and I were servicing a unit. He was fairly new to service work and we
were testing a transformer's output. I had him hook the tester up
while I went to the panel to turn the power on when he was ready. He
gave me the okay and I turned the power on whereupon he yelped. Seems
he'd gotten a none too gentle reminder about how close you don't want
to keep your hands near a transformer.

You know it seems it doesn't matter how often dad tells them
something. Some times they just have to learn on their own. :)
I think that 'hands too close to the transformer' lesson is
one of those 'only needs one class, knowledge lasts a lifetime' things
:)




Paul ( pjm @ pobox . com ) - remove spaces to email me
'Some days, it's just not worth chewing through the restraints.'

HVAC/R program for Palm PDA's
Free demo now available online !! http://pmilligan.net/palm/
Free superheat charts for 38 Ref's online at http://pmilligan.net/pmtherm/
 
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C

CBhvac

Steve Scott said:
I wasn't sure if you meant you didn't have a 1725 SunTec pump or the
primary control. But, FWIW, we just carry 1725 pumps. They will work
fine on a 1725 or 3450 motor. Just can't use a 3450 with a 1725
motor.
Damn..I just re-read that and thought...

Never post after a long day...

WTF is that mess? Ok..translated...was out of one pump for ONE call, and had
another that would not start that turned out to be the cad thinking the box
was hot, and such. Two dino burners, two different problems..
 
C

CBhvac

BGBevill said:
Hey CB,
Thanks for the translation....lol. You all running calls today? The boss
has shut us down completely since Sunday. Nothing is moving at all around
here. I was in Tenn with a church youth group when all this started and made
it home just fine, but you could tell a real difference when you crossed the SC
line. Appears we don't have much salt and sand around here.

Bobby
Yup..I figured it was better not to send out the vans in this mess, and was
better if I was out in it, so I gave the guys the next couple of days off,
and jusst been running a few little calls...another pump this morning, by
lunch a walk in cooler compressor and TEV, and one rough in. Not a big day,
but the thing thats pissing me off the most is that the last two little
storms we had, the state was out using that new slurry mix (for this area)
like it was the greatest thing...this time..nada.
Now, its in the teens and the salt that they DID put down finally this
morning wont work, so you have a solid sheet of ice on the roads. Tomorrow
till about noon its gonna be a bitch.
Calling for more on Thursday.

Oh....on a related note, if you are needing new tires for a van..we put new
Firestone Steeltex R4S's on two of the trucks and you could not ask for a
better performing tire in this mess, short of a set of chains or a true snow
tire. Its a funny sight when you have a van pulling out 4X4s wiht only two
wheel drive..
 
S

Steve Scott

Oh....on a related note, if you are needing new tires for a van..we put new
Firestone Steeltex R4S's on two of the trucks and you could not ask for a
better performing tire in this mess, short of a set of chains or a true snow
tire. Its a funny sight when you have a van pulling out 4X4s wiht only two
wheel drive..
We're running studded snows all the way around. Makes a world of
difference.
 
C

CBhvac

Steve Scott said:
We're running studded snows all the way around. Makes a world of
difference.
Be nice if we could, but its illegal here now.
 
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Riello Burner Problems

I have a Bryant Oil Furnace with a Riello F5 Burner. The Furnace is
only about 3 years old, but for the last several months it has had a
intermittent problem with ignition. Thermostat ok, but burner fails to
start. The problem occurs maybe 3 time a week. My oil company has
tried all kinds of fixes. First they just replaced the nozzle, then
they added in line filters, then the replaced the control box (Box
that has the reset button integrated into it)...no luck.

Interesting enough, when the furnace fails to start it does not trip
the reset button....if you hit the reset button nothing happens. They
way you have to restart it is by turning off the main on/off switch
next to the burner. Its a red on off switch mounted on the outside of
the furnace. When the furnace fails to start you just turn the switch
to "off" and then to "on" and it fires right up and off you go. Once
it goes you have no poblems for several days.

Everything else about the furnace is fine, its clean and quiet. I have
regular services and cleanings as well.

This sure seems like an electrical problem, but they did replace the
Riello control box...what are the other components that could be
failing?

Appreciate any ideas, I had to travel for a two days last week and
returned to a 38 degree house,


Thanks!
We have had problems with our burner on and off since it was put in about 2 years ago.
The last technician told me that the relay that comes with the burner is not adequate. We should have a larger one. This also is the reason why we always smell fumes outside when the burner goes on. Also, the reason for the start problems which happend every so often. Another technician said that the burner has the one Riello wants it to have. The system runs for about a month and then we have problems.
 
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Messages
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Burner problems

I have a Bryant Oil Furnace with a Riello F5 Burner. The Furnace is
only about 3 years old, but for the last several months it has had a
intermittent problem with ignition. Thermostat ok, but burner fails to
start. The problem occurs maybe 3 time a week. My oil company has
tried all kinds of fixes. First they just replaced the nozzle, then
they added in line filters, then the replaced the control box (Box
that has the reset button integrated into it)...no luck.

Interesting enough, when the furnace fails to start it does not trip
the reset button....if you hit the reset button nothing happens. They
way you have to restart it is by turning off the main on/off switch
next to the burner. Its a red on off switch mounted on the outside of
the furnace. When the furnace fails to start you just turn the switch
to "off" and then to "on" and it fires right up and off you go. Once
it goes you have no poblems for several days.

Everything else about the furnace is fine, its clean and quiet. I have
regular services and cleanings as well.

This sure seems like an electrical problem, but they did replace the
Riello control box...what are the other components that could be
failing?

Appreciate any ideas, I had to travel for a two days last week and
returned to a 38 degree house,


Thanks!
I was told by a burner technician that the relay that came with the burner is not adequate and that is why people are having problems with this burner.
 
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Riello burner problems

I was told recently by a technician who came out to fix our Riello burner that the relay is not adequate for the system and we should have a larger one. That is also the reason why we smell fumes outside when the furnace goes on. We have also had a problem on and off with this burner since we put it in about 2 1/2 years ago.
Another technician told us that this is not the case. I am beginning to believe the first technician since the burner just went off again. At least it started up with the reset button.
 
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I have a Bryant Oil Furnace with a Riello F5 Burner. The Furnace is
only about 3 years old, but for the last several months it has had a
intermittent problem with ignition. Thermostat ok, but burner fails to
start. The problem occurs maybe 3 time a week. My oil company has
tried all kinds of fixes. First they just replaced the nozzle, then
they added in line filters, then the replaced the control box (Box
that has the reset button integrated into it)...no luck.

Interesting enough, when the furnace fails to start it does not trip
the reset button....if you hit the reset button nothing happens. They
way you have to restart it is by turning off the main on/off switch
next to the burner. Its a red on off switch mounted on the outside of
the furnace. When the furnace fails to start you just turn the switch
to "off" and then to "on" and it fires right up and off you go. Once
it goes you have no poblems for several days.

Everything else about the furnace is fine, its clean and quiet. I have
regular services and cleanings as well.

This sure seems like an electrical problem, but they did replace the
Riello control box...what are the other components that could be
failing?

Appreciate any ideas, I had to travel for a two days last week and
returned to a 38 degree house,


Thanks!
Tom,
I know this problem was a few years ago, but I'm having the exact same problem with my riello burner. My burner will not ignite intermittently, once or twice a day or not for a few days and the pre purge motor runs for 15 minutes and then finally it ignites. Like yours the burner doesn't lock out. My boiler guy thinks its the primary control box, but before I go dumping money on not returnable parts I was wondering what fixed your issue, since you said the control box was replaced. Thanks for the Help!
 
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I know this is an old Post, but my rieollo f3 does the same on a boiler. It ended up that I had to turn pump pressure up to 190 and change to a .65 60 solid nozzle. After calculation the burner burns at .90 which is what the buderus g115/28 boiler calls for in overfire mode. Which also by the way saves me fuel by overfire g this boiler.
 
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