Police, gas utility workers entering RI homes to shut off gas (why?)

[Home Guy]

Ok, here's what I don't get:

1) It's not clear from this story why the gas company thinks there's a
problem somewhere.

2) I don't know how they do things in RI, but around here our gas meters
are outside, and there's a small lock-able valve in the gas line
entering the meter. This is so that the utility can shut the gas supply
off to a premises and LOCK the valve closed with a pad-lock. So there
would be no need to have to enter the premises like they're doing here
in Westerly RI.

====================================================

http://www.wpri.com/dpp/news/local_news/south_county/natural-gas-issue-affecting-1600-homes

Natural gas issue affecting 1,600 homes
Crews will begin to turn gas back on tonight

Updated: Thursday, 22 Dec 2011, 9:06 PM EST

WESTERLY, R.I. (WPRI/AP) - National Grid says crews are going to
door-to-door in Westerly to close off the natural gas meters of 1,600
customers as it works on a distribution problem.

Utility spokesman David Graves says crews worked through the night and
had secured about 800 meters by about 7 a.m., and the company will start
restoring service Thursday night, with the problem solved by Saturday.

Main Street and Canal Street are among the areas affected. Not only are
those streets filled with homeowners, but businesses are also impacted
by the issue.

"It’s going to be devastating to be without heat or power for this
holiday season. It’s our crunch, time," said Molly Silva, a business
owner.

If no one is home at the time, police officers along with a locksmith
are entering homes to shut the valves off.

"Thank God no snow, no frost, no freezing temperatures yet. We just hope
for the best. Hopefully we can get some things going for Christmas. I
have a meal to prepare, hopefully we are good to go by then," said
Westerly resident Mallory Carpenter.

After National Grid has checked each affected home, and the problem has
been resolved, they will return to each home and business to turn the
meters back on.

Officials said this is not an easy fix, and expect the process at least
a day or so. Right now, no homes are in danger.

Graves says more crews are expected today from around Rhode Island and
Massachusetts.

National Grid is asking that anyone in that area who does not have
natural gas, to please call 1-800-640-1595.

Emergency shelter available for affected families

Due to the natural gas service interruption in parts of Westerly, the
Westerly Police Department and the American Red Cross will be opening an
emergency overnight shelter at 6:00 p.m. Thursday.

The Shelter, at the Westerly Senior Center, 39 State Street, will
provide a meal and overnight accommodations for those families affected
by the gas service interruption.

 

[Home Guy]

Ok, here's what I don't get:

1) It's not clear from this story why the gas company thinks there's
a problem somewhere.

2) I don't know how they do things in RI, but around here our gas meters
are outside, and there's a small lock-able valve in the gas line
entering the meter. This is so that the utility can shut the gas supply
off to a premises and LOCK the valve closed with a pad-lock. So there
would be no need to have to enter the premises like they're doing here
in Westerly RI.

====================================================

http://www.wpri.com/dpp/news/local_news/south_county/natural-gas-issue-affecting-1600-homes

One of the comments:

=============
Oh wait nevermind. It's AIR in lines from a contractor hitting a main
and air got in, which can cause problems. They are purging the lines.
Its a safety issue and now its explained. THANKS CHANNEL TEN! for the
informative reporting!
==============

Still not clear why they have to enter each house when the gas supply
shut-off valve is likely on the outside at the meter.

Having to come around to each house and *go inside* as part of turning
the gas *back on* is something that I think is standard proceedure for a
gas utility (even if it doesn't make much sense).

 

[Pete C.]

One of the comments:

=============
Oh wait nevermind. It's AIR in lines from a contractor hitting a main
and air got in, which can cause problems. They are purging the lines.
Its a safety issue and now its explained. THANKS CHANNEL TEN! for the
informative reporting!
==============

Still not clear why they have to enter each house when the gas supply
shut-off valve is likely on the outside at the meter.

Having to come around to each house and *go inside* as part of turning
the gas *back on* is something that I think is standard proceedure for a
gas utility (even if it doesn't make much sense).

Many areas in RI are old city construction from the time when gas meters
located in basements was the norm.

 

[Han]

Many areas in RI are old city construction from the time when gas meters
located in basements was the norm.

My gasmeter is in my basement. Reading is a huge pain in the ,,,,,
because I'm not in favor of the guy traipsing into my house. So I tell him
the reading.

 

[Evan]

Many areas in RI are old city construction from the time when gas meters
located in basements was the norm.

+1...

Many of the older homes and buildings have meters inside...

As major remodels occur they might be moved outside if
the property owner wants to pay to have it moved, but people
in RI are notorious for being very cheap...

This is the first such occurrence where homes have had to
be entered in such a large area -- perhaps this event might
inspire changes in the building codes requiring the meters
to be located outside...

~~ Evan

 

[Home Guy]

Evan wrote:

+1...

Many of the older homes and buildings have meters inside...

But they don't have shut-off valves *on the outside* ???

Normally, a utility (any utility) likes to have outside access to a
shut-off mechanism so they don't have to enter the premises (or deal
with the owner) to shut off the utility in cases of non-payment, etc.

 

[Existential Angst]

Evan wrote:



But they don't have shut-off valves *on the outside* ???

Normally, a utility (any utility) likes to have outside access to a
shut-off mechanism so they don't have to enter the premises (or deal
with the owner) to shut off the utility in cases of non-payment, etc.

There are curbside street valves, but they are their own nightmare.

This RI thing is weird.... never heard of anything like that. Gas
interruptions, while not an everyday occurrence, do happen, and I never
heard of anything like this. I don't see why "air in the line" is different
from any other interruption/restoration, that doesn't seem to require this
type of invasion.

I think this is a harbinger.

Semi-related, in my neck of the woods (Yonkers, NY), they have installed
RFID meters, which can be read remotely, sposedly even by satellite.
Goodgawd, the very notion makes my fillings hurt....

 

[harry]

Ok, here's what I don't get:

1) It's not clear from this story why the gas company thinks there's a
problem somewhere.

2) I don't know how they do things in RI, but around here our gas meters
are outside, and there's a small lock-able valve in the gas line
entering the meter.  This is so that the utility can shut the gas supply
off to a premises and LOCK the valve closed with a pad-lock.  So there
would be no need to have to enter the premises like they're doing here
in Westerly RI.

====================================================

http://www.wpri.com/dpp/news/local_news/south_county/natural-gas-issu...

Natural gas issue affecting 1,600 homes
Crews will begin to turn gas back on tonight

Updated: Thursday, 22 Dec 2011, 9:06 PM EST

WESTERLY, R.I. (WPRI/AP) - National Grid says crews are going to
door-to-door in Westerly to close off the natural gas meters of 1,600
customers as it works on a distribution problem.

Utility spokesman David Graves says crews worked through the night and
had secured about 800 meters by about 7 a.m., and the company will start
restoring service Thursday night, with the problem solved by Saturday.

Main Street and Canal Street are among the areas affected. Not only are
those streets filled with homeowners, but businesses are also impacted
by the issue.

"It’s going to be devastating to be without heat or power for this
holiday season. It’s our crunch, time," said Molly Silva, a business
owner.

If no one is home at the time, police officers along with a locksmith
are entering homes to shut the valves off.

"Thank God no snow, no frost, no freezing temperatures yet. We just hope
for the best. Hopefully we can get some things going for Christmas. I
have a meal to prepare, hopefully we are good to go by then," said
Westerly resident Mallory Carpenter.

After National Grid has checked each affected home, and the problem has
been resolved, they will return to each home and business to turn the
meters back on.

Officials said this is not an easy fix, and expect the process at least
a day or so. Right now, no homes are in danger.

Graves says more crews are expected today from around Rhode Island and
Massachusetts.

National Grid is asking that anyone in that area who does not have
natural gas, to please call 1-800-640-1595.

Emergency shelter available for affected families

Due to the natural gas service interruption in parts of Westerly, the
Westerly Police Department and the American Red Cross will be opening an
emergency overnight shelter at 6:00 p.m. Thursday.

The Shelter, at the Westerly Senior Center, 39 State Street, will
provide a meal and overnight accommodations for those families affected
by the gas service interruption.

If there is a problem with the gas main (depressurised), they have to
ensure no air gets in any where and if it does, the main has to be
purged at all points before it can be put back in use.

 

[trader4]

Except for the tens of thousands of homes that have the gas meter on
the inside, usually in the basement.

In the three houses I lived in Philadelphia, the gas line came in from
underground and the meter hung on the front wall of the basement.  The
meter readers used to come once a month and knock on door to come read
the meters.

I image these houses have similar setups.

Agree.
The video in the link clearly said they were entering
SOME of the affected homes, not all. I would think
those are the homes with the meter and shutoff inside.

 

[EXT]

If there is a problem with the gas main (depressurised), they have to
ensure no air gets in any where and if it does, the main has to be
purged at all points before it can be put back in use.

That is correct. And the contractor who cut the line gets to pay for all the
gas that is released by purging the mains and to pay for the staff who have
to run around to cut off the gas and again to purge the customer's lines and
then re-light all the customer's equipment. This is going to cost him, and
probably a major lawsuit to cover any other damages caused by the outage.

 

[Mark Lloyd]

But they don't have shut-off valves *on the outside* ???

Normally, a utility (any utility) likes to have outside access to a
shut-off mechanism so they don't have to enter the premises (or deal
with the owner) to shut off the utility in cases of non-payment, etc.

If the problem is air in the lines, wouldn't they have to pretty much
bleed not only the mains but also get air out of all pipes inside the
house?
[/QUOTE]

A couple of years ago, I had a problem with my gas regulator (outside).
The gas company replaced it. They had to purge the line to my water
heater. When the gas started coming through, it made a very loud noise
like a steam whistle.

--
2 days until The winter celebration (Sunday December 25 2011 12:00 AM).

Mark Lloyd
http://notstupid.us

"Commonly, those who have professed the strongest motives of love of a
God have demonstrated the deepest hatred toward human joy and liberty."
-- E. Haldeman-Julius

 

[joevan]

My gasmeter is in my basement. Reading is a huge pain in the ,,,,,
because I'm not in favor of the guy traipsing into my house. So I tell him
the reading.

Mine is in my basement too, but a number of years ago the gas company
was overestimating my usage as though I was heating with gas. At one
point they claimed I was using 50 times more gas than I was using and
I had to read it and call in the reading for them. I heat with oil
and it suits this big old house fine.

I got tired of arguing with the idiot at the gas company here in
Philadelphia so I sent a letter or email to the commissioner ahead of
such in Pa and the gas company had to install a unit so they could
read it from the street, from the truck. There is a shutoff in the
sidewalk for the gas.

While I am on this gas subject I will tell you a short story that
happened.
I was taking down some bricks that were blocking the under sidewalk
vault. I had to use a flashlight to see inside when I got the hold big
enough. I looked up and saw the gas line and immediately called the
gas company and told them about the condition of the pipe which had
been exposed to extreme humidity for maybe a hundred years. They came
the same day and put an inner tube inside the metal pipe with a
coupling to join the rusted pipe, I guess to protect somewhat the new
tube made of some sort of gas proof fiber.
A bunch of dirt had been piled up by the electric company in a poor
attempt to fill the underground vault but all they did was create a
bad and dangerous condition for the gas pipe. I guess they were
trying to protect the 10,000 volt line out front.
I saved a small piece of the old pipe they cut off to get to solid
parts of the pipe. Some areas of that piece are as thin as a regular
typewriter paper. That was 15 to 25 years ago, don't remember but it
is fine now.

 

[Han]

Mine is in my basement too, but a number of years ago the gas company
was overestimating my usage as though I was heating with gas. At one
point they claimed I was using 50 times more gas than I was using and
I had to read it and call in the reading for them. I heat with oil
and it suits this big old house fine.

I am heating with NG, and glad I don't have the oil anymore as I had in the
last house. I pay every month, no yearly plan. I read the meter myself
and make sure PSE&G gets it right. I relish the idea that now I pay for
the gas I consumed last month, rather than pay ahead for 275 gal of heating
oil sitting in my basement.

 

[dennisgauge]

Still not clear why they have to enter each house when the gas supply
shut-off valve is likely on the outside at the meter.

Your meter's on the outside, therefore EVERYBODY's meter is on the
outside, huh?

Not necessarily. I've been in a lot of houses where the meters are
inside. Both water and gas.

Having to come around to each house and *go inside* as part of turning
the gas *back on* is something that I think is standard proceedure for a
gas utility (even if it doesn't make much sense).

It only doesn't make sense when you close your mind off to the
possibility that maybe, just maybe, you don't know it all.

 

[Existential Angst]

Ok, here's what I don't get:

1) It's not clear from this story why the gas company thinks there's a
problem somewhere.

2) I don't know how they do things in RI, but around here our gas meters
are outside, and there's a small lock-able valve in the gas line
entering the meter. This is so that the utility can shut the gas supply
off to a premises and LOCK the valve closed with a pad-lock. So there
would be no need to have to enter the premises like they're doing here
in Westerly RI.

====================================================

http://www.wpri.com/dpp/news/local_news/south_county/natural-gas-issue-affecting-1600-homes

Natural gas issue affecting 1,600 homes
Crews will begin to turn gas back on tonight

Updated: Thursday, 22 Dec 2011, 9:06 PM EST

WESTERLY, R.I. (WPRI/AP) - National Grid says crews are going to
door-to-door in Westerly to close off the natural gas meters of 1,600
customers as it works on a distribution problem.

Utility spokesman David Graves says crews worked through the night and
had secured about 800 meters by about 7 a.m., and the company will start
restoring service Thursday night, with the problem solved by Saturday.

Main Street and Canal Street are among the areas affected. Not only are
those streets filled with homeowners, but businesses are also impacted
by the issue.

"It's going to be devastating to be without heat or power for this
holiday season. It's our crunch, time," said Molly Silva, a business
owner.

If no one is home at the time, police officers along with a locksmith
are entering homes to shut the valves off.

"Thank God no snow, no frost, no freezing temperatures yet. We just hope
for the best. Hopefully we can get some things going for Christmas. I
have a meal to prepare, hopefully we are good to go by then," said
Westerly resident Mallory Carpenter.

After National Grid has checked each affected home, and the problem has
been resolved, they will return to each home and business to turn the
meters back on.

Officials said this is not an easy fix, and expect the process at least
a day or so. Right now, no homes are in danger.

Graves says more crews are expected today from around Rhode Island and
Massachusetts.

National Grid is asking that anyone in that area who does not have
natural gas, to please call 1-800-640-1595.

Emergency shelter available for affected families

Due to the natural gas service interruption in parts of Westerly, the
Westerly Police Department and the American Red Cross will be opening an
emergency overnight shelter at 6:00 p.m. Thursday.

The Shelter, at the Westerly Senior Center, 39 State Street, will
provide a meal and overnight accommodations for those families affected
by the gas service interruption.

I wonder if all the people whose houses were entered by police/locksmith
were notified in advance?
If not, this sets a VERY bad precedence.
Did the locksmiths replace/fix any damage?

 

[Oren]

I wonder if all the people whose houses were entered by police/locksmith
were notified in advance?

Good point. And by what "authority" did they enter the homes?

 

[Han]

Good point. And by what "authority" did they enter the homes?

Public safety seems to me a good reason. I have a waterheater with a
pilot light. It doesn't need electricity to keep the water hot, which is
a distinct advantage during a power outage (DAMHIKT). If there were air
introduced in the municipal gas system that blew out the pilot, existing
safeties may or may not prevent gas from flowing out the pilot into the
basement. At a certain concentration that could becpome a definite
explosion hazard. Homes here are close together, and if my home blew up,
the homes on either side would be severely damaged. Enough reason for
emergency personnel to service my gas lines in a bona fide gas emergency.

 

[Evan]

But they don't have shut-off valves *on the outside* ???

Normally, a utility (any utility) likes to have outside access to a
shut-off mechanism so they don't have to enter the premises (or deal
with the owner) to shut off the utility in cases of non-payment, etc.

Nope, no outside access, some of the older street taps off the main
line don't even have shut-offs -- so entire streets would have to be
shut down where the street mains branch off from the larger mains
feeding from the gas compressor plants...

LOL, they would do the same thing they are doing in the emergency,
go in with a sheriff or police officer to cut the service off, with a
locksmith if need be...

~~ Evan

 

[Existential Angst]

Public safety seems to me a good reason. I have a waterheater with a
pilot light. It doesn't need electricity to keep the water hot, which is
a distinct advantage during a power outage (DAMHIKT). If there were air
introduced in the municipal gas system that blew out the pilot, existing
safeties may or may not prevent gas from flowing out the pilot into the
basement. At a certain concentration that could becpome a definite
explosion hazard. Homes here are close together, and if my home blew up,
the homes on either side would be severely damaged. Enough reason for
emergency personnel to service my gas lines in a bona fide gas emergency.

Except this wasn't an emergency per se, afaict. Presumably there was a main
valve that shut off gas to the area.
So THAT takes care of any blow-up type emergency.

Next, the gas meters need to be closed, OK, but there is now time for
notice.

Was notice given?

Not arguing that the powers-dat-be could or should be refused access, just
wondering about the procedure by which they GOT access.

Recall how the law of eminent domain has been badly abused lately, for the
private sector -- which then can presumably be taxed to benefit the People,
but what a stretch.
And not a goddamm thing you can do about it, with the current paradigm of
"legislation".

 

[Evan]

Good point.  And by what "authority" did they enter the homes?

Under the authority of the state DPU (Department of Public Utilities)
and the State Fire Marshal who is interested in not having dozens of
homes explode all around the same time as the gas service is
restored...

Your home is only private in so far as the police department can not
enter it and search for evidence to use against you in criminal court
proceedings without a search or arrest warrant, there are many
"authorities" which are civil or administrative in nature that can and
will
enter your home at any time they need to in order to do their jobs,
with
or without notice and above and beyond your objection...

~~ Evan