paraffin in larger than gallon cans

[CampinGazz]

I've got an eberspacher heater for my motorhome, runs on diesel, but at
almost a quid a litre i'm not happy running it on road diesel,

red diesel is apparantly not recomended for these heaters, lots of problems
running on red, and at a grand for the heater, if eberspacher say dont use
red diesel, then i'm not gonna use red.

they do say you can use paraffin tho,

however it seems no where sells paraffin from a pump anymore, all i can get
is a 4 litre bottle of the stuff for a daft price,

i'm fitting a 45 litre tank for the heater fuel, so a couple of 25 litre
drum of paraffin would do, but where do you get it from,
bulk paraffin means 500 litres or more it seems when searching for paraffin
in bulk, don't quite want that much.

i'm near nottingham, but will travel to get the tank filled if there is a
place that pumps paraffin left anywhere in the midlands, or on the way dfown
south to dover as that's where i'm going in 2 weeks.

 

[Andy]

There are various grades of diesel.



'Phone your local oil fuel distributer/supplier, who will tell you about
diesel (ask about the "char value", and tell them what you're thinking
of putting it in). You should be able to get paraffin at £0.65/L (I
enquired a month or two ago).

I've seen it sold in 20 litre blue plastic containers, at about 85p/litre in
a country sell-everything emporium, but not near Nottingham.

Andy.

 

[John Weston]

I've got an eberspacher heater for my motorhome, runs on diesel, but at
almost a quid a litre i'm not happy running it on road diesel,

red diesel is apparantly not recomended for these heaters, lots of problems
running on red, and at a grand for the heater, if eberspacher say dont use
red diesel, then i'm not gonna use red.

I've got one of these fitted in my boat and that runs on
"marine" red diesel exclusively, year in year out. I wonder
if there is anything different in the specifications? What
type do you have?

I know several boat owners have fitted the "road" types since
everything marine is more expensive. They just need to be
careful to use stainless steel fastenings in place of the road
version's cheaper plated steel ones. I'm not aware of
anything different with the burner itself.

 

[The Natural Philosopher]

www.yell.com

type in 'oil fuel' and 'nottingham' which will bring up all the oil fuel
distributors.

Paraffin is often called kerosene now or PBO (premium burning oil). I use it
in my parts cleaning tank and just take an empty 25 litre drum to the local
supplier when I need a refill. It ain't hard stuff to find.

Thats what I thought...its what I run my central heating on? Or can
do..I think its 'light fuel oil' or something like that.

 

[CampinGazz]

Thats what I thought...its what I run my central heating on? Or can do..I
think its 'light fuel oil' or something like that.

Ahha, that's what i was thinking last night, other names for the stuff,
Guess i need to pop over to chandlers oil and gas up the road and see if
they can help this time, never have been able before when i was after an
argon/co2 gas mix for the mig welder, they seemed to have every other gas
but an argon mix,

There are a few places that have the old parafin pumps on the forecourts,
but they've all been de-commsioned years ago, all these new regs mean the
old pumps arent accurate enough it seems, and it's not worth the expence for
a new pump when they can sell gallon cans of the stuff for 6 times the
price, they rekon most people want it for those garden lamps anyway, or a
little bit for the greenhouse heater, not 45 litres at a time into a tank
mounted on a vehicle.

I'm weary of running the heater on red diesel, there's lots of doccumented
problems on the canal boating forums about the problems, coking up of the
heater when run on red,
one person had a brand new boat with a D10w heater in it, his is a live
aboard and he was getting about a month of use before the thing coked up and
wouldent fire,

eberspacher came out lots of times and kept warning him that it's keep
happening if he continued to run on red,
there's even bulitens out from eberspacher saying not to use red with their
heaters, but apparantly only the boat builders get these, not the general
public.

I know canal diesel is supposed to be worse than road diesel, the red
variety that is, but when my local garage that sells red diesel dosent even
know what's at the pump nozzle, price board says gas oil, pump says red
diesel, the 2 are different oils, one's heating oil, the other's road diesel
with red dye and none of the addetives in it,

It does seem there are different internals to these heaters, i have the
D5ws, 12 volt version, the eberspacher docs that came with the heater that
specified what fuels to use (white road diesel and parafin for my heater)
say you can run the 24 volt version of this heater on bio-diesel, but not
the 12 volt version, yet no explnation why,

Which is why i'm fitting a seperate tank in the first place, as i run my
van's engine on bio-diesel for about 5 months of the year when i'm living in
it abroad,

 

[Will Dean]

I know canal diesel is supposed to be worse than road diesel, the red
variety that is, but when my local garage that sells red diesel dosent
even know what's at the pump nozzle, price board says gas oil, pump says
red diesel, the 2 are different oils, one's heating oil, the other's road
diesel with red dye and none of the addetives in it,

I don't think you'll find any clear idea of the difference between 'red
diesel' and 'gas oil' and '35 second oil', because almost everyone treats
them as synonyms. The stuff is white diesel with a red dye and another
tracer added. There is no 'road variety' of red diesel, and there is no
distinction between the 'heating fuel' (domestically, people don't tend to
heat with 35-second oil nowadays) and the 'road diesel with additives'.

At a certain point in the distribution chain (it used to be surprisingly
close to the end-user, I don't know if it still is), red diesel is made from
white diesel by adding the dye and tracer and performing the appropriate
bits of tax-related paperwork.

I would be interested to read Eberspacher's precise words on this - at first
glance, it seems a little unlikely that there would be something in red
diesel which didn't harm a modern tractor engine but did harm something as
simple as a space heater. Do you have a reference?

But if it burns kerosene (28-second oil, burning oil), then I'm sure you'll
find that cleaner - and if nothing else you'll be saving a few pence per
litre in duty. It still has the tracer additive, and I think it's dyed
nowadays - just not red)

Basically:

"Gas oil" is "35 second oil" is "red diesel"
"Burning oil" is "28 second oil" is "kerosene"

Will

 

[AJH]

At a certain point in the distribution chain (it used to be surprisingly
close to the end-user, I don't know if it still is), red diesel is made from
white diesel by adding the dye and tracer and performing the appropriate
bits of tax-related paperwork.

Will posted what I understood to be the case and the delivery lorry
driver said the dye and tracer were only added at the point the fuel
left the bonded depot and was injected into the line as the tanker
filled. So if it's designed to run on 35 sec gasoil it should make
little difference it run on DERV or rebated red gasoil.

AJH

 

[The Natural Philosopher]

Paraffin is not the same as domestic heating oil.

well, I run an Aga, and that needs the lighter grade - 28sec? something
like that..and its a lot better in a wick/vaporizer burner than standard
CH 'diesel'; and is noticeably different.

Doesn't coke up so much.
Jet fuel is pretty much similar too..paraffin as such is a very vague term.

Its all various mixes of long chain hydrocarbons anyway.

 

[Grimly Curmudgeon]

We were somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert, when the

i'm fitting a 45 litre tank for the heater fuel, so a couple of 25 litre
drum of paraffin would do, but where do you get it from,
bulk paraffin means 500 litres or more it seems when searching for paraffin
in bulk, don't quite want that much.

i'm near nottingham, but will travel to get the tank filled if there is a
place that pumps paraffin left anywhere in the midlands, or on the way dfown
south to dover as that's where i'm going in 2 weeks.

Why not pay someone to allow you to siphon off a few gallons of heating
kerosene?

 

[CampinGazz]

The £0.65/L is based on filling up your own container which you
take along to a proper oil distributor (who delivers domestic
fuel, etc.).

If i wasnt so busy today i'd have niped upto chandlers oil and gas in town
and seen what they do, as they do heating oil in bulk deliveries, so they
must do parafin, kerosene, 28 sec oil or what ever it's called,

i wonder how they'll be with me wanting to fill a tank that's fitted to the
motorhome, i guess a diesel engine wont run on 28 sec oil, so hopefully they
wont refuse because they think i'm running the engine on it, 45 litres wont
get me very far anyway, the engine tanks take 140 litres, and the parafin
tank will be right at the back of the van, on the oposite side to the engine
fuel tanks.

But i guess if they do get stroppy, i'll have to buy a 25 litre jerry can,
park up outside the dopot, walk in and fill it, walk out and empty it into
the tank, walk back in and fill it once more, and that's my onboard tank
filled (well, overflowed if i empty all of the last can in)

 

[Dave Liquorice]

I would be interested to read Eberspacher's precise words on this - at
first glance, it seems a little unlikely that there would be something
in red diesel which didn't harm a modern tractor engine but did harm
something as simple as a space heater. Do you have a reference?

Agreed, if it runs fine on road duty paid "white" diesel it should run
fine on rebated red diesel.

But if it burns kerosene (28-second oil, burning oil), then I'm sure
you'll find that cleaner -

And I can see if the heater is designed to run on 28 sec (domestic
heating oil, kerosene) that running it on 35sec may well cause problems
with coking up. I suspect it that a simple adjustment and/or a different
jet is all that would be required to change the fuel requirement.

It still has the tracer additive, and I think it's dyed nowadays - just
not red)

28sec is now yellow and also has "invisible" tracers as well like red.

"Gas oil" is "35 second oil" is "red diesel"

and is road diesel when the duty has been applied but not the dye and
tracers.

"Burning oil" is "28 second oil" is "kerosene"

and is parafin. Though stuff for lamps/room heaters etc might be better
refined and have a perfume added.

The "28 second" and "35 second" refer to a viscosity test, how long it
takes a standard quantity of the oil to flow through a standard hole in a
standard container.

 

[The Natural Philosopher]

It depends on the "char value" - fuels with a higher value will
clog wicks faster. Paraffin has a lower char value than central
heating fuel. Is your Aga one designed for heating oil, or a
converted one with a wick?

I haven't a clue. Like all oil burning agas it has a wick to start it,
but works by vaporising the oil once its actually hot.
Its brand new - well 4 years old..
I do know that I have to burn a slightly lighter grade of oil than the
boiler would otherwise tolerate/

Paraffin is only a vague term now that terminology is being abused.



Longer than some, shorter than others!
Exactly.


P.S. I thought you said I was in your killfile? Perhaps it was
someone else.

No, only Drivel

 

[The Natural Philosopher]

i guess a diesel engine wont run on 28 sec oil,

Diesels run on almost anything. In the paraffin/kerosene/central heating
oil/JP-whatever military fuel for everything-that-moves-in-NATO etc etc.

I certainly have a friend who regularly tops up his car from his central
heating tank...

 

[The Natural Philosopher]

Agreed, if it runs fine on road duty paid "white" diesel it should run
fine on rebated red diesel.


And I can see if the heater is designed to run on 28 sec (domestic
heating oil, kerosene) that running it on 35sec may well cause problems
with coking up. I suspect it that a simple adjustment and/or a different
jet is all that would be required to change the fuel requirement.


28sec is now yellow and also has "invisible" tracers as well like red.


and is road diesel when the duty has been applied but not the dye and
tracers.


and is parafin. Though stuff for lamps/room heaters etc might be better
refined and have a perfume added.

The "28 second" and "35 second" refer to a viscosity test, how long it
takes a standard quantity of the oil to flow through a standard hole in a
standard container.

Right. Useful explanation of the nomenclature.

Agas coke up anyway, even on 28sec, bit they coke up faster on 35 sec,
and may run into problems with gravity feed on cold weather.