Odd wiring.

  • Thread starter The Medway Handyman
  • Start date

T

The Medway Handyman

Doing various jobs at a lady's house, one of which was to replace the
pull cord switch in her en suite. Like for like, should have been simple.

Three story town house, en suite and common bathroom on the same floor.

One extractor fan vents both bathrooms via trunking.

The switch had failed mechanically as pull cords often do, but this one
was a weirdo.

Two cables coming in, both three core & earth, so red, yellow, blue.

The switch (Tenby MG888) had 4 terminals + earth.

Top left = COM, top right = N, bottom left = 1 WAY, bottom right = 2 WAY.

Never seen one of these before.

Cable 1 wired yellow to COM, red to 1 WAY, blue joined to blue in Cable 2.

Cable 2 wired yellow to COM, red to 1 WAY, blue joined to blue from Cable 1.

Terminals 1 WAY and 2 WAY are linked by a red cable.

I assume it's wired so that the switch in either bathroom triggers the
fan (which is on a timer).

Three visits to electrical wholesalers & a web search doesn't find a
Tenby MG 888 switch, so I've e mailed the manufacturers.

Not knowing how the switch 'switches' I can't figure out how it would
work or what alternative I can use if I can't locate a replacement switch.

This has even caused the knowledgeable & helpful Mr Wadsworth to scratch
his head!

Any thoughts?
 
Ad

Advertisements

R

Roger Mills

Doing various jobs at a lady's house, one of which was to replace the
pull cord switch in her en suite. Like for like, should have been simple.

Three story town house, en suite and common bathroom on the same floor.

One extractor fan vents both bathrooms via trunking.

The switch had failed mechanically as pull cords often do, but this one
was a weirdo.

Two cables coming in, both three core & earth, so red, yellow, blue.

The switch (Tenby MG888) had 4 terminals + earth.

Top left = COM, top right = N, bottom left = 1 WAY, bottom right = 2 WAY.

Never seen one of these before.

Cable 1 wired yellow to COM, red to 1 WAY, blue joined to blue in Cable 2.

Cable 2 wired yellow to COM, red to 1 WAY, blue joined to blue from
Cable 1.

Terminals 1 WAY and 2 WAY are linked by a red cable.

I assume it's wired so that the switch in either bathroom triggers the
fan (which is on a timer).

Three visits to electrical wholesalers & a web search doesn't find a
Tenby MG 888 switch, so I've e mailed the manufacturers.

Not knowing how the switch 'switches' I can't figure out how it would
work or what alternative I can use if I can't locate a replacement switch.

This has even caused the knowledgeable & helpful Mr Wadsworth to scratch
his head!

Any thoughts?
Odd! Were the two blue wires connected to the neutral terminal, or just
joined together in fresh air? Was *anything* connected to the N terminal?

Does the switch have a neon light, which glows when it's 'on'? If so,
that might account for the need for a neutral.

Having terminals marked Com, 1-way and 2-way suggests that it's a
change-over - with Com connected to 1-way in one position, changing to
Com to 2-way when you toggle it. In that case, it's *very* odd to join
1-way and 2-way together, because that means that the switch in *on* in
*both* positions, so that toggling it has now effect!

Are you sure you have reported the wiring correctly? What, according, to
the owner, is it *supposed* to do, and what is the perceived problem
which caused her to ask for it to be replaced?
--
Cheers,
Roger
____________
Please reply to Newsgroup. Whilst email address is valid, it is seldom
checked.
 
B

Brian Gaff

Two switches, take the other one that works off and test it?

Brian
 
A

ARWadsworth

Brian said:
Two switches, take the other one that works off and test it?
That is something we discussed over the phone.But Dave was not on site at
the time.
 
T

The Medway Handyman

Odd! Were the two blue wires connected to the neutral terminal, or just
joined together in fresh air? Was *anything* connected to the N terminal?
Joined as in fresh air :) Chocky block.
Does the switch have a neon light, which glows when it's 'on'? If so,
that might account for the need for a neutral.
Nope.

Having terminals marked Com, 1-way and 2-way suggests that it's a
change-over - with Com connected to 1-way in one position, changing to
Com to 2-way when you toggle it. In that case, it's *very* odd to join
1-way and 2-way together, because that means that the switch in *on* in
*both* positions, so that toggling it has now effect!
My thoughts exactly!
Are you sure you have reported the wiring correctly? What, according, to
the owner, is it *supposed* to do, and what is the perceived problem
which caused her to ask for it to be replaced?
Pretty sure - I'll post a photo somewhere. The switch failed
mechanically & the light wouldn't come on - or the fan.
 
A

ARWadsworth

The said:
Doing various jobs at a lady's house, one of which was to replace the
pull cord switch in her en suite. Like for like, should have been
simple.
Three story town house, en suite and common bathroom on the same
floor.
One extractor fan vents both bathrooms via trunking.

The switch had failed mechanically as pull cords often do, but this
one was a weirdo.

Two cables coming in, both three core & earth, so red, yellow, blue.

The switch (Tenby MG888) had 4 terminals + earth.

Top left = COM, top right = N, bottom left = 1 WAY, bottom right = 2
WAY.
Never seen one of these before.

Cable 1 wired yellow to COM, red to 1 WAY, blue joined to blue in
Cable 2.
Cable 2 wired yellow to COM, red to 1 WAY, blue joined to blue from
Cable 1.
Terminals 1 WAY and 2 WAY are linked by a red cable.

I assume it's wired so that the switch in either bathroom triggers the
fan (which is on a timer).

Three visits to electrical wholesalers & a web search doesn't find a
Tenby MG 888 switch, so I've e mailed the manufacturers.

Not knowing how the switch 'switches' I can't figure out how it would
work or what alternative I can use if I can't locate a replacement
switch.
This has even caused the knowledgeable & helpful Mr Wadsworth to
scratch his head!

Any thoughts?
I have to say that I still believe it is what I suggested when you phoned
me. It's a double pole pullcord switch. The reds have been linked up to give
a permanent live to the fan (not that that link is needed), the yellows are
the switched live and the blues in the strip connector are the neutrals.

http://s428.photobucket.com/albums/qq6/adamko2020/?action=view&current=TMHpullswitch.jpg.
 
Ad

Advertisements

O

Owain

O

Owain

Should be wired using a double pole switch.

http://groups.google.com/group/uk.d-i-y/browse_thread/thread/98f7dd24...

LIVE -------------- SWa Pole 1----------- LIGHT -- Neutral
                 |
                 |-- SWa Pole 2-----
                                   |
                                   |
                                   --SHARED -- Neutral
                                   --FAN
                                   |
                                   |
                 |-- SWb Pole 2-----
                 |
 LIVE -------------- SWb Pole 1 ---------- LIGHT  -- Neutral

if a timer fan then you will have an unswitched live to the fan as
well.

Owain
Double pole pull switch MK 3151 requires mounting block
http://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Products/MK3151.html

Owain
 
O

Owain

I have to say that I still believe it is what I suggested when you phoned
me. It's a double pole pullcord switch. The reds have been linked up to give
a permanent live to the fan (not that that link is needed), the yellows are
the switched live and the blues in the strip connector are the neutrals.

http://s428.photobucket.com/albums/qq6/adamko2020/?action=view¤....
I agree. And the link between the two poles is needed to provide a
live to the right-hand yellow switched live.

Owain
 
R

Roger Mills

Should be wired using a double pole switch.

http://groups.google.com/group/uk.d-i-y/browse_thread/thread/98f7dd24859ce778/59046c4bcfbf94e1

LIVE -------------- SWa Pole 1----------- LIGHT -- Neutral
|
|-- SWa Pole 2-----
|
|
-- SHARED -- Neutral
-- FAN
|
|
|-- SWb Pole 2-----
|
LIVE -------------- SWb Pole 1 ---------- LIGHT -- Neutral

if a timer fan then you will have an unswitched live to the fan as
well.

Owain
That makes perfect sense! But, in that case, I wouldn't expect the 4
poles to be labelled Com, 1-way, 2-way and N [1]. Has TMH misead them?

[1] I'm not sure what I *would* expect to see, but not that!
--
Cheers,
Roger
____________
Please reply to Newsgroup. Whilst email address is valid, it is seldom
checked.
 
T

The Medway Handyman

Ad

Advertisements

O

Owain

Ta.  So how does that translate to wiring colours?

Red - perm live in, perm live to fan
Yellow - switched live to light, switched live to fan
Blue - neutral in, neutral to fan




RED -------------- SWa Pole 1-------YLW1---- LIGHT -- (neutral not
present at switch)
|
|-- SWa Pole 2----YLW2-----| (sw live to trigger)
| |
|-----------------RED----SHARED (perm live to
fan)
FAN
|
BLUE ------------------CHOCKY-------BLUE-----| (neutral to fan)


Owain
 
O

Owain

Ta.  So how does that translate to wiring colours?
Slightly amended so as not to linewrap. Still requires fixed font.
Note the N to the light is not present at the switch


RED ----------- SWa Pole 1----YLW1---LIGHT--> N.
|
|-- SWa Pole 2----YLW2-----| (sw live to trigger)
| |
|-----------------RED----SHARED (perm L to fan)
FAN
|
BLUE-------------CHOCKY-------BLUE-----| (neutral to fan)

Owain
 
J

jgharston

(snip Owain's diagram)

This is exactly why I wire up so there's exactly one
unambiguous cable at each switch/outlet/whatever
and do all the voodoo in junction boxes. Even
tho' it's depreciated, I've had too many calls
from people who've taken a switch or ceiling
rose off and can't get any further.

Or worse, "I joined all the reds, and all the blacks,
and all the greens, but when I try to turn the light
off the fuse blows"

JGH
 
A

ARWadsworth

The said:
Doing various jobs at a lady's house, one of which was to replace the
pull cord switch in her en suite. Like for like, should have been
simple.
Three story town house, en suite and common bathroom on the same
floor.
One extractor fan vents both bathrooms via trunking.

The switch had failed mechanically as pull cords often do, but this
one was a weirdo.

Two cables coming in, both three core & earth, so red, yellow, blue.

The switch (Tenby MG888) had 4 terminals + earth.

Top left = COM, top right = N, bottom left = 1 WAY, bottom right = 2
WAY.
Never seen one of these before.

Cable 1 wired yellow to COM, red to 1 WAY, blue joined to blue in
Cable 2.
Cable 2 wired yellow to COM, red to 1 WAY, blue joined to blue from
Cable 1.
Terminals 1 WAY and 2 WAY are linked by a red cable.

I assume it's wired so that the switch in either bathroom triggers the
fan (which is on a timer).

Three visits to electrical wholesalers & a web search doesn't find a
Tenby MG 888 switch, so I've e mailed the manufacturers.

Not knowing how the switch 'switches' I can't figure out how it would
work or what alternative I can use if I can't locate a replacement
switch.
This has even caused the knowledgeable & helpful Mr Wadsworth to
scratch his head!

Any thoughts?
http://www.electrika.com/f/0550-legrand-w-10-11/#/182/

part number 0611 30
 
Ad

Advertisements

Ad

Advertisements

O

Owain

OK, I have located the switch Owain suggested.
It has L & N Supply at the top and L & N Load at the bottom.
So, do I wire it;

2 x reds to L Load, link to N Load, blues together, yellows to L & N Supply?

No, you put the supply in the Supply side and the load in the Load
side :)


RED ---------|--SUPPLY 1 LOAD---YLW1
|
RED ---------|--SUPPLY 2 LOAD---YLW2


BLUE --------|
|
BLEU --------|


Owain
 

Ask a Question

Want to reply to this thread or ask your own question?

You'll need to choose a username for the site, which only take a couple of moments. After that, you can post your question and our members will help you out.

Ask a Question

Similar Threads

Odd wiring? 18
Odd lighting circuit wiring 11
Ceiling light - Odd wire 9
Please ID another odd wire! 1
Odd question... 30
Odd taps 7
Odd question. 13
Odd project 13

Top