Need Help deciding on AC and Furnace


M

Michelle

I want to replace my furnace and install central air. I've had five
different companies out to give me estimates. Every one of them has
conflicting opinions. I don't know what to do. For reference, my
house is 1000 sqft and I live in southeast Wisconsin. My current
furnace is a forced air Bryant and is approx. 15-18 years old.

One says Carrier is great and Rheem is crap.
One says Rheem is great and Carrier is crap.
One loves Goodman/Janitrol, thinks Carrier is over priced and fails
often, and thinks there's typically a two week wait to get replacement
parts for a Rheem.
One quoted me on a Bryant (which I now know is Carrier).
One quoted me on Ducane.

Three think I should go with a 10 SEER AC and four think I should go
with an 80% furnace. They all think 12 SEERs break down more often
and I won't make up the price difference for at least 10 years. They
think 90% furnaces break down more often and don't heat the house as
well as an 80% does. One has said the type of Freon used in the 12
SEER Rheems have been having issues. It's more corrosive than the
stuff used in the 10 SEER unit and has been eating away at some of the
parts. Everyone else has never heard of that an thinks it's a bunch
of bull. One says 90% furnaces only benefit larger homes.

One thinks 12 SEERs break down less than 10 SEERS (this is the Carrier
dealer).

Three think I should get a 1½ ton AC and 75k BTU furnace.
One thinks I should get a 2 ton AC and 70k BTU furnace.
One thinks I should get a 2½ ton AC and 100k BTU furnace.

The one who thinks I should get the 2 ton AC showed me a sheet he uses
for judging AC size. The sheet he got that copy from was very old –
made on a mimeograph. It showed that up to 850 sqft should have a 1 ½
ton, 850-1200 sqft a 2 ton, 1200 - ? a 2½ ton. I don't remember the
rest.

Carrier has a 10 year warranty on their scroll compressor and a 20
year on the major furnace part (I don't remember what it's called)
Everyone else seems to have a 5 year on the AC and a 10 year (if I'm
lucky) on the furnace.

I can't find any information on the internet to begin to figure out
any of this. It seems I need to take these people's word for it. On
top of that, my realtor mother says she hasn't seen any new furnaces
that were less than a 90% in the homes she's been selling. She had a
90% put in her own house 6 years ago. It seems the 80% are quiet old,
as well as the 10 SEERs. Seems silly to put in old equipment.

The prices are approximatly:
$3100 for the Ducane 10 SEER, 80% furnace
$4000 for the Janitrol 10 SEER, 90% furnace, & chimney liner (this guy
thinks I may need a new liner due to the appearance of the clay part
of my chimney on the outside.)
$4000 for the Carrier 12 SEER (38TZA), 80% furnace (58STA/58STX).
$4600 for the Rheem 10 SEER, 80% furnace.
$2600 for the Bryant 12 SEER. Didn't get a furnace price from this
guy. He would suggest a 90%

The one thing I have decided is the Ducane is out of the running.
That rep was at my house for no longer than 5 minutes, recommended I
get the 2½ ton, 100k BTU setup, and commented on my not being married
at my age (29).

Other than that I am completely confused. I just don't know what to
do. Can someone please help me figure this out.
 
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P

pjm

On 15 Jul 2003 09:44:38 -0700, (e-mail address removed) (Michelle) wrote:

Oh Christ, another one.



Paul ( pjm @ pobox . com ) - remove spaces to email me
 
T

TURTLE

This is Turtle.

Seperating Answers below.



Michelle said:
I want to replace my furnace and install central air. I've had five
different companies out to give me estimates. Every one of them has
conflicting opinions. I don't know what to do. For reference, my
house is 1000 sqft and I live in southeast Wisconsin. My current
furnace is a forced air Bryant and is approx. 15-18 years old.
Pick out the one that give you a heat load calculation on your home. Now
this is not the fellow with the square foot chart that he showed you. this
will be called a Manual J calculations. This will give the exact BTU amounts
for each the heating and air conditioning. No body works for you that does
not run a manual j caculations before deciding the sizes or getting the job.
this sperates the Boys from the Adults in the profession.
One says Carrier is great and Rheem is crap. [ wrong ]


One says Rheem is great and Carrier is crap. [ wrong]


One loves Goodman/Janitrol, thinks Carrier is over priced and fails [
Close to wrong but debatiable. ]


often, and thinks there's typically a two week wait to get replacement
parts for a Rheem. [ wrong ]



One quoted me on a Bryant (which I now know is Carrier). [ Correct ]



One quoted me on Ducane. [ Correct ]



Three think I should go with a 10 SEER AC [ maybe ]


and four think I should go
with an 80% furnace. [ maybe ]



They all think 12 SEERs break down more often
and I won't make up the price difference for at least 10 years. [ 2
answers No and Yes for each ]

They
think 90% furnaces break down more often and don't heat the house as
well as an 80% does.
Hog Wash


One has said the type of Freon used in the 12
SEER Rheems have been having issues. It's more corrosive than the
stuff used in the 10 SEER unit and has been eating away at some of the
parts. Everyone else has never heard of that an thinks it's a bunch
of bull. One says 90% furnaces only benefit larger homes.

Don't go with R-410-A freon but use R-22 in the system and all this above is
bull including the 90% furnaces only benefitting larger home [ hog wash ] .

One thinks 12 SEERs break down less than 10 SEERS (this is the Carrier
dealer).
Hog wash

Three think I should get a 1½ ton AC and 75k BTU furnace.
One thinks I should get a 2 ton AC and 70k BTU furnace.
One thinks I should get a 2½ ton AC and 100k BTU furnace.
Take the size that was give by doing a Manual j calculation and throw out
the other bull estimates. Get a Manual J calculation run on your home and go
by what it has to say. If you can't get a hvac conpany to run the manual j ,
go to your nearest House Drafter and have him run a Manual j for you and
then get one of the knuckle heads install that size for you. Any hvac
installer in this business is suppose to be able to give you a manual J
calculation on the spot before any bids get taken.

The one who thinks I should get the 2 ton AC showed me a sheet he uses
for judging AC size. The sheet he got that copy from was very old -
made on a mimeograph. It showed that up to 850 sqft should have a 1 ½
ton, 850-1200 sqft a 2 ton, 1200 - ? a 2½ ton. I don't remember the
rest.
Hog wash

Carrier has a 10 year warranty on their scroll compressor and a 20
year on the major furnace part (I don't remember what it's called)
Everyone else seems to have a 5 year on the AC and a 10 year (if I'm
lucky) on the furnace.
like having a scroll compressor but if the system is installed correctly
you will never need the warrety only in 1 in a 1,000 cases. Warrenty is the
last thing to look at but haing a scroll compressor is good thing to have.
All Rheem equipment have scroll compressors.

I can't find any information on the internet to begin to figure out
any of this. It seems I need to take these people's word for it. On
top of that, my realtor mother says she hasn't seen any new furnaces
that were less than a 90% in the homes she's been selling. She had a
90% put in her own house 6 years ago. It seems the 80% are quiet old,
as well as the 10 SEERs. Seems silly to put in old equipment.
Go with the 90% AFUE furnace and take the 12 seer condenser if you want to.
In your area of the country the 90% furnace is good to have and the 12 seer
condenser is not all that much needed. the 10 seer is most likely what would
be good for you and your area. The 12 seer may not pay for the extra
installation cost and get your money back in the cost of operating the
equipment through the years. Now if money is not a problem, go with the 12
seer.

The prices are approximatly:
$3100 for the Ducane 10 SEER, 80% furnace
run him off he has no business getting in your business.

$4000 for the Janitrol 10 SEER, 90% furnace, & chimney liner (this guy
thinks I may need a new liner due to the appearance of the clay part
of my chimney on the outside.)
$4000 for the Carrier 12 SEER (38TZA), 80% furnace (58STA/58STX).
$4600 for the Rheem 10 SEER, 80% furnace.
$2600 for the Bryant 12 SEER. Didn't get a furnace price from this
guy. He would suggest a 90%
You need a Manul J run and then pick out what brand / installer that fits
the calculations. You need to not look at the brand so closely but at the
installer for a good running system. I would take any of the brands above if
i knew he was a very good installer. Now here is a personal view here and
take it as personal view only. i do lean toward the Rheem but just a little
bit.

The one thing I have decided is the Ducane is out of the running.
That rep was at my house for no longer than 5 minutes, recommended I
get the 2½ ton, 100k BTU setup, and commented on my not being married
at my age (29).
Tell him to bit it.
Other than that I am completely confused. I just don't know what to
do. Can someone please help me figure this out.
Follow above here and if you have any question e-mail me or post back for
any answers. This is a everyday thing for us.

TURTLE
 
B

Bubba

I want to replace my furnace and install central air. I've had five
different companies out to give me estimates. Every one of them has
conflicting opinions. I don't know what to do. For reference, my
house is 1000 sqft and I live in southeast Wisconsin. My current
furnace is a forced air Bryant and is approx. 15-18 years old.

One says Carrier is great and Rheem is crap.
One says Rheem is great and Carrier is crap.
One loves Goodman/Janitrol, thinks Carrier is over priced and fails
often, and thinks there's typically a two week wait to get replacement
parts for a Rheem.
One quoted me on a Bryant (which I now know is Carrier).
One quoted me on Ducane.

Three think I should go with a 10 SEER AC and four think I should go
with an 80% furnace. They all think 12 SEERs break down more often
and I won't make up the price difference for at least 10 years. They
think 90% furnaces break down more often and don't heat the house as
well as an 80% does. One has said the type of Freon used in the 12
SEER Rheems have been having issues. It's more corrosive than the
stuff used in the 10 SEER unit and has been eating away at some of the
parts. Everyone else has never heard of that an thinks it's a bunch
of bull. One says 90% furnaces only benefit larger homes.

One thinks 12 SEERs break down less than 10 SEERS (this is the Carrier
dealer).

Three think I should get a 1½ ton AC and 75k BTU furnace.
One thinks I should get a 2 ton AC and 70k BTU furnace.
One thinks I should get a 2½ ton AC and 100k BTU furnace.

The one who thinks I should get the 2 ton AC showed me a sheet he uses
for judging AC size. The sheet he got that copy from was very old –
made on a mimeograph. It showed that up to 850 sqft should have a 1 ½
ton, 850-1200 sqft a 2 ton, 1200 - ? a 2½ ton. I don't remember the
rest.

Carrier has a 10 year warranty on their scroll compressor and a 20
year on the major furnace part (I don't remember what it's called)
Everyone else seems to have a 5 year on the AC and a 10 year (if I'm
lucky) on the furnace.

I can't find any information on the internet to begin to figure out
any of this. It seems I need to take these people's word for it. On
top of that, my realtor mother says she hasn't seen any new furnaces
that were less than a 90% in the homes she's been selling. She had a
90% put in her own house 6 years ago. It seems the 80% are quiet old,
as well as the 10 SEERs. Seems silly to put in old equipment.

The prices are approximatly:
$3100 for the Ducane 10 SEER, 80% furnace
$4000 for the Janitrol 10 SEER, 90% furnace, & chimney liner (this guy
thinks I may need a new liner due to the appearance of the clay part
of my chimney on the outside.)
$4000 for the Carrier 12 SEER (38TZA), 80% furnace (58STA/58STX).
$4600 for the Rheem 10 SEER, 80% furnace.
$2600 for the Bryant 12 SEER. Didn't get a furnace price from this
guy. He would suggest a 90%

The one thing I have decided is the Ducane is out of the running.
That rep was at my house for no longer than 5 minutes, recommended I
get the 2½ ton, 100k BTU setup, and commented on my not being married
at my age (29).

Other than that I am completely confused. I just don't know what to
do. Can someone please help me figure this out.
Well, Sorry. I cant help you with the 29 thing or the not being
married thing.
Your confusion comes in part from all the estimates. Where do you
stop? 3 estimates?, 5? 10?
All youve done is confuse yourself more on a subject you obviously
know nothing about. Thats ok. Many homeowners dont.
You've obviously seen that they all have opinions and they all like
certain brands. You need to look at a couple other issues and dont
just let the cheapest price make your decision. You will most
assureadly regret that decision.
Find out information on the company that you are going to select. Are
they local? Do they do good work? Will they be back when you have a
problem? Ask your friends, neighbors, co-workers who they have and if
they are satisfied. How long you stay where you are will effect the
choice of equipment (standard stuff or premium equipment). Are you
worried about the repair prices down the road? Get a 5 yr parts and
labor warranty.......or a 10 yr.
Im afraid you'll need to do a little homework to acheive your best
decision. I cant select a brand of equipment for you because they dont
pay me to endorse their product. :)
Bubba ( See, no yelling, bitchin or screaming from me that time)
 
N

Noon-Air

Michelle said:
I want to replace my furnace and install central air. I've had five
different companies out to give me estimates. Every one of them has
conflicting opinions. I don't know what to do. For reference, my
house is 1000 sqft and I live in southeast Wisconsin. My current
furnace is a forced air Bryant and is approx. 15-18 years old.

One says Carrier is great and Rheem is crap.
One says Rheem is great and Carrier is crap.
One loves Goodman/Janitrol, thinks Carrier is over priced and fails
often, and thinks there's typically a two week wait to get replacement
parts for a Rheem.
One quoted me on a Bryant (which I now know is Carrier).
One quoted me on Ducane.

Three think I should go with a 10 SEER AC and four think I should go
with an 80% furnace. They all think 12 SEERs break down more often
and I won't make up the price difference for at least 10 years. They
think 90% furnaces break down more often and don't heat the house as
well as an 80% does. One has said the type of Freon used in the 12
SEER Rheems have been having issues. It's more corrosive than the
stuff used in the 10 SEER unit and has been eating away at some of the
parts. Everyone else has never heard of that an thinks it's a bunch
of bull. One says 90% furnaces only benefit larger homes.

One thinks 12 SEERs break down less than 10 SEERS (this is the Carrier
dealer).

Three think I should get a 1½ ton AC and 75k BTU furnace.
One thinks I should get a 2 ton AC and 70k BTU furnace.
One thinks I should get a 2½ ton AC and 100k BTU furnace.

The one who thinks I should get the 2 ton AC showed me a sheet he uses
for judging AC size. The sheet he got that copy from was very old -
made on a mimeograph. It showed that up to 850 sqft should have a 1 ½
ton, 850-1200 sqft a 2 ton, 1200 - ? a 2½ ton. I don't remember the
rest.

Carrier has a 10 year warranty on their scroll compressor and a 20
year on the major furnace part (I don't remember what it's called)
Everyone else seems to have a 5 year on the AC and a 10 year (if I'm
lucky) on the furnace.

I can't find any information on the internet to begin to figure out
any of this. It seems I need to take these people's word for it. On
top of that, my realtor mother says she hasn't seen any new furnaces
that were less than a 90% in the homes she's been selling. She had a
90% put in her own house 6 years ago. It seems the 80% are quiet old,
as well as the 10 SEERs. Seems silly to put in old equipment.

The prices are approximatly:
$3100 for the Ducane 10 SEER, 80% furnace
$4000 for the Janitrol 10 SEER, 90% furnace, & chimney liner (this guy
thinks I may need a new liner due to the appearance of the clay part
of my chimney on the outside.)
$4000 for the Carrier 12 SEER (38TZA), 80% furnace (58STA/58STX).
$4600 for the Rheem 10 SEER, 80% furnace.
$2600 for the Bryant 12 SEER. Didn't get a furnace price from this
guy. He would suggest a 90%

The one thing I have decided is the Ducane is out of the running.
That rep was at my house for no longer than 5 minutes, recommended I
get the 2½ ton, 100k BTU setup, and commented on my not being married
at my age (29).

Other than that I am completely confused. I just don't know what to
do. Can someone please help me figure this out.
Personally I perfer Rheem equipment, but.... any brand when correctly
installed will give you a good servicable system. Its all in the quality of
the installation. Think of it like this... a great florist can make weeds
look good.... a bad one can destroy roses. its the same with HVAC, a great
installation will give you a good servicable system, a bad installation and
you have very expensive junk.

If none of the contractors actually did a "Manual J" heat load/loss
calculation, find one who will. If you have any doubt of any of the BS and
these guys are trying to feed you a shit filled twinky, don't bite..... call
the local wholesale supply houses for the brands you are interested in and
ask them "Who's the best they got?" ( who would they call to do the work in
their family's home} then call these folks and get it done right.
 
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M

Michelle

Thank you all for your help. Whenever I spend a large amount of
money, I need to understand the work being done and the quality of the
equipment. I do quite a bit of research to find this out but I've
been having a difficult time finding information on this subject.
(That's why I've posted here.) I guess I'm used to equipment having
different levels of quality and that being the most important. It
sounds like with heating and AC it's the quality of the installer that
is important. The equipment is secondary. Thank you for helping me
understand that.

I definatly won't be going with the cheapest price. I know that cheap
usually means crap.

I have been asking around. In fact, one of the people I got a quote
from is one of my closest friend's brother. Another is a company a
different friend used to work for. They've just added to the
confusion. The rest were refered by family and friends of family.

Going off of all the responses I received, I called a company
yesterday and asked on the phone if he will be doing a Manual J heat
loss/gain calculation when he comes out. He said yes so I scheduled
an appointment for Monday. The company is also a BBB member. (So were
some of the other companies I had out). And he sell Trane equipment.

Thanks everyone for your help.
 
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