Levelling concrete floor


T

tvmo

Hello,

I've looked at several posts on this but can't find any relevant
advice.

1. I'm going to lay laminate over a concrete floor in my kitchen
2. The floor is totally uneven, the highest point being the farthest
away from the entrance to the kitchen (which adjoins to my living
room)
3. I'm struggling to see how self-levelling compound would help me as
if I bring the level of the kitchen floor up to the highest point I
will have a step down to the lounge all be it only an inch or so.
4. This means I'll have to bring the level of both my lounge and my
living room up to match the highest point in the kitchen.

Am I going to have to break the floor up in the kitchen an re-lay it?
Can anyone advise me on the best solution please?

Thanks
 
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E

EricP

Hello,

I've looked at several posts on this but can't find any relevant
advice.

1. I'm going to lay laminate over a concrete floor in my kitchen
2. The floor is totally uneven, the highest point being the farthest
away from the entrance to the kitchen (which adjoins to my living
room)
3. I'm struggling to see how self-levelling compound would help me as
if I bring the level of the kitchen floor up to the highest point I
will have a step down to the lounge all be it only an inch or so.
4. This means I'll have to bring the level of both my lounge and my
living room up to match the highest point in the kitchen.

Am I going to have to break the floor up in the kitchen an re-lay it?
Can anyone advise me on the best solution please?

Thanks
I have just seen a garage floor getting worked over by a gadget that
amazed me. It is like a traditional floor polisher used in offices but
had a large cutting disk instead of a brush under it.

A few minutes use leveled a really bad garage floor.

I was told you can hire them. The disks are very expensive but the
results are well worth it.
 
G

George

tvmo said:
Hello,

I've looked at several posts on this but can't find any relevant
advice.

1. I'm going to lay laminate over a concrete floor in my kitchen
2. The floor is totally uneven, the highest point being the farthest
away from the entrance to the kitchen (which adjoins to my living
room)
3. I'm struggling to see how self-levelling compound would help me as
if I bring the level of the kitchen floor up to the highest point I
will have a step down to the lounge all be it only an inch or so.
4. This means I'll have to bring the level of both my lounge and my
living room up to match the highest point in the kitchen.

Am I going to have to break the floor up in the kitchen an re-lay it?
Can anyone advise me on the best solution please?

Thanks
But there's no need to Level all the floor ie just to the point where it
needs leveling.
So long as it is alost level there is no need to worry about its finish as
you're laying laminate over the floor.
 
G

George

EricP said:
I have just seen a garage floor getting worked over by a gadget that
amazed me. It is like a traditional floor polisher used in offices but
had a large cutting disk instead of a brush under it.

A few minutes use leveled a really bad garage floor.

I was told you can hire them. The disks are very expensive but the
results are well worth it.
Would you use one in the kitchen though MrP? cough! cough! where's the
door..bump,ow!.
 
P

PCPaul

Hello,

I've looked at several posts on this but can't find any relevant advice.

1. I'm going to lay laminate over a concrete floor in my kitchen 2. The
floor is totally uneven, the highest point being the farthest away from
the entrance to the kitchen (which adjoins to my living room)
3. I'm struggling to see how self-levelling compound would help me as if
I bring the level of the kitchen floor up to the highest point I will
have a step down to the lounge all be it only an inch or so. 4. This
means I'll have to bring the level of both my lounge and my living room
up to match the highest point in the kitchen.

Am I going to have to break the floor up in the kitchen an re-lay it?
Can anyone advise me on the best solution please?

Thanks
Having the concrete ground smooth would be one solution - you could even
get the tools off Amazon if we were in the US.. <http://www.amazon.com/
Bosch-1773AK-Concrete-Surfacing-Grinder/dp/B0000719W8>

That would still leave you with a sloping (but smooth) floor though, if
it's an even gradient. Is it an even gradient or all over the place? What
about any existing cabinets, are they standing on the uneven floor, and
hence higher at one end than the other? sloping??

Could you do something like lay a thin foam or hardboard underlay first
to give you a good surface? You'd still have a slope and a step, but a
smaller one. Get the threshold strip right and you probably wouldn't
notice it. Having a nice wide strip tends to make people either step onto
or over it, so there wouldn't (shouldn't?) be a trip hazard.
 
R

Rod

tvmo said:
Hello,

I've looked at several posts on this but can't find any relevant
advice.

1. I'm going to lay laminate over a concrete floor in my kitchen
2. The floor is totally uneven, the highest point being the farthest
away from the entrance to the kitchen (which adjoins to my living
room)
3. I'm struggling to see how self-levelling compound would help me as
if I bring the level of the kitchen floor up to the highest point I
will have a step down to the lounge all be it only an inch or so.
4. This means I'll have to bring the level of both my lounge and my
living room up to match the highest point in the kitchen.

Am I going to have to break the floor up in the kitchen an re-lay it?
Can anyone advise me on the best solution please?

Thanks
Why is it so uneven? If it was that badly laid, then it could be argued
that it would be sensible to rip it up. That would allow a) the floor to
be laid properly; b) insulation to be incorporated.

There are so many questions before making a decision. Is it possible to
lose some or all the height difference under units where it might not
matter? Would it be difficult to re-lay the floor to line up to both the
livng room and the back door?

Of course, anything will have costs - which will probably impact your
decision.

While you are doing the work, you have the opportunity to reconsider use
of laminate flooring and choose something nicer.

--
Rod

Hypothyroidism is a seriously debilitating condition with an insidious
onset.
Although common it frequently goes undiagnosed.
<www.thyromind.info> <www.thyroiduk.org> <www.altsupportthyroid.org>
 
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B

Bruce

tvmo said:
I've looked at several posts on this but can't find any relevant
advice.

1. I'm going to lay laminate over a concrete floor in my kitchen
2. The floor is totally uneven, the highest point being the farthest
away from the entrance to the kitchen (which adjoins to my living
room)
3. I'm struggling to see how self-levelling compound would help me as
if I bring the level of the kitchen floor up to the highest point I
will have a step down to the lounge all be it only an inch or so.
4. This means I'll have to bring the level of both my lounge and my
living room up to match the highest point in the kitchen.

Am I going to have to break the floor up in the kitchen an re-lay it?
Can anyone advise me on the best solution please?

Self-levelling compound doesn't actually make the floor "level". It
makes it smoother and more even. The problem is that imprecise
terminology is used, and people confuse the terms level, smooth and
even, which can all mean very different things.

The most sensible option is to use the poorly-named "self-levelling
compound" to make the floor "even" enough to take the laminated floor.
My own kitchen floor is not level. It slopes evenly from one end to
the other, with about a 25mm fall, and this doesn't worry me.

However, if you are adamant that the floor needs to be exactly level
(all at the same elevation above Ordnance Datum) to achieve this, then
you could lay a sand/cement screed which varies from about 30mm to
5mm, adding 5mm to the highest part and 30mm to the lowest to give a
net overall levelling effect of 25mm.

Alternatively, you could use self-levelling compound to provide a
screed of zero to 5mm thickness in the areas that need only that much
uplift, with a sand and cement screed in the areas needing an uplift
of 5mm to 25mm.

I would try very hard to avoid doing either of those, simply because
of the 25mm or 35mm step you will end up with.

Others have suggested specialist tools to lower the floor. I have no
experience of these so cannot comment. But I have used a scabbling
tool, which is normally used to prepare a finished concrete pour to
accept more concrete on top, to lower a concrete slab that was poured
too high by 15-20mm at one end. That could be used to lower high part
of your floor, but it would take some time and generate a lot of
noise. The tool is either air driven (you would need to hire a
compressor), petrol driven or electric.

Here's a petrol driven scabbling tool available for hire:
http://tinyurl.com/5dw3y6

The type I have used is air powered, similar to that shown as "UV3R"
in the following catalogue:
http://www.macdonaldairtools.com/products/vr_scabblers_products.pdf
 
B

Bruce

Bruce said:
I would try very hard to avoid doing either of those, simply because
of the 25mm or 35mm step you will end up with.

Sorry, should have been 25mm or 30mm.
 
E

EricP

Would you use one in the kitchen though MrP? cough! cough! where's the
door..bump,ow!.
You wet the floor George!

There's more dust brushing it up.
 
T

tvmo

Thanks very much for the advice guys, much appreciated.

Should have explained, the kitchen is an empty shell at the moment as
I've ripped out the old kitchen with a view to replace it with new
units.

The problem with brining the floor level is going to be that the
kitchen floor will then be higher than the rest of the rooms in the
house, which means I'll either need a step or I'll have to raise the
other floors up.

I like the sound of the scabbing tool as opposed to digging the whole
floor up.

Cheers.
 
D

dom

How big an area is too high?

It's hard work, but I've done it over a square meter by honeycombing
the surface to the correct depth with an SDS drill and a medium size
bit (say 20mm), then removing it down to drilled depth with a chisel
bit.
 
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T

The Medway Handyman

EricP said:
I have just seen a garage floor getting worked over by a gadget that
amazed me. It is like a traditional floor polisher used in offices but
had a large cutting disk instead of a brush under it.

A few minutes use leveled a really bad garage floor.

I was told you can hire them. The disks are very expensive but the
results are well worth it.
Was it one of these or similar?
http://www.brandontoolhire.co.uk/directory/prodview.asp?idproduct=557
 
A

Andy Hall

Hello,

I've looked at several posts on this but can't find any relevant
advice.

1. I'm going to lay laminate over a concrete floor in my kitchen
2. The floor is totally uneven, the highest point being the farthest
away from the entrance to the kitchen (which adjoins to my living
room)
3. I'm struggling to see how self-levelling compound would help me as
if I bring the level of the kitchen floor up to the highest point I
will have a step down to the lounge all be it only an inch or so.
4. This means I'll have to bring the level of both my lounge and my
living room up to match the highest point in the kitchen.

Am I going to have to break the floor up in the kitchen an re-lay it?
Can anyone advise me on the best solution please?

Thanks
The best solution would be to rip up the existing floor and replace it
with a new one including insulation and a damp proof membrane.

It can then be finished with a screed to the level of the floors in the
surrounding rooms, leaving a flat surface onto which you could lay a
much nicer tiled floor rather than ghastly laminate, which isn't really
suitable for a kitchen anyway.


By the time you would otherwise tit around with the floor, then those
of the other rooms you will have created a Ben Hur scale epic. It
really isn't worth it.
 
G

George \(dicegeorge\)

i would have thought a slight slope in kitchen floor is good,
if a pipe bursts at night the water will go out of the door!

[g]
 
S

stuart noble

The best solution would be to rip up the existing floor and replace it
with a new one including insulation and a damp proof membrane.
Whatever for? There is no reason why a floor needs to be level as long
as it's flat
It can then be finished with a screed to the level of the floors in the
surrounding rooms
Exactly and, by the sound of it, that won't be level either


, leaving a flat surface

onto which you could lay a
much nicer tiled floor
Why can't you allow people to make their own decisions?

rather than ghastly laminate

I'm not a fan either but the OP's taste is nowt to do with me so I keep
my trap shut, and I suggest you do the same. "Nice" and "ghastly". You
sound like some silly old tart on a makeover show.

, which isn't really
suitable for a kitchen anyway.
There are grades that are suitable but I guess you wouldn't want to know
that.
 
A

Andy Hall

Whatever for? There is no reason why a floor needs to be level as long
as it's flat
That depends on how out of level it is. You will also note that I
didn't say that it did have to be level within itself, just that it
could be level with the floors of the surrounding rooms at the points
where it joins them.

However considering that a variation in level of an inch (25mm) is
mentioned, taken over the floor of a room that is quite a lot and may
well be noticable in regard to what is done on the walls in terms of
decoration.
Exactly and, by the sound of it, that won't be level either
It may or may not be depending on whether the other two rooms are level
with one another. Clearly if they are, the kitchen floor can be made
level with them as well as flat and level itself.

, leaving a flat surface

onto which you could lay a

Why can't you allow people to make their own decisions?
I do, even if they are the wrong ones. It can be a learning
exercise for them.
rather than ghastly laminate

I'm not a fan either but the OP's taste is nowt to do with me so I keep
my trap shut, and I suggest you do the same.
Why? Laminate does look like cheap plastic crap, it is sensitive to
water and is easily dinged and scratched. It's noisy and clicky
underfoot. Kitchens are high traffic areas that involve water.

It's quite reasonable to point out that laminate is not suitable for kitchens.

I would actually argue that it's not suitable for anywhere apart from
lining a skip, but that would be stretching this more towards an
opinion.

However, "ghastly" is a pretty good adjective to sum it up.


, which isn't really

There are grades that are suitable but I guess you wouldn't want to know that.
Suitable for what? You mean that they don't swell and buckle quite
so much when they get wet?
 
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S

stuart noble

Andy said:
However considering that a variation in level of an inch (25mm) is
mentioned, taken over the floor of a room that is quite a lot and may
well be noticable in regard to what is done on the walls in terms of
decoration.
I certainly wouldn't dig up a floor for the sake of an inch
I do, even if they are the wrong ones. It can be a learning exercise
for them.
Patronising as ever.
Laminate does look like cheap plastic crap
It has its place. If I had a young family I might well consider it in
certain areas.

, it is sensitive to
water and is easily dinged and scratched.
There are water resistant grades, just as there is waterproof chipboard,
and it most certainly isn't easily damaged. It happens to be the chosen
flooring for a number of recital rooms where grand pianos weighing well
over half a ton with metal castors are wheeled about on a daily basis.

It's noisy and clicky
underfoot.
Not on a solid floor it isn't.
I would actually argue that it's not suitable for anywhere apart from
lining a skip, but that would be stretching this more towards an opinion.
Just spare us your elitist ranting. Laminate is an inexpensive way for a
lot of people to have low maintenance, practical flooring. Strange
concept I know but maybe they regard their houses are somewhere to live
while they get on with more interesting things.
 
A

Andy Hall

I certainly wouldn't dig up a floor for the sake of an inch
So you think it's acceptable for things to be rolling around on the floor?

Here we have a situation where the floor is a mess and the discussion
has been around complicated and messy scraping techniques that probably
won't work for this degree of problem and then other rooms are going to
have to be disrupted to fix it as well.

It's simply not worth it. Replacing the floor is the quickest, most
cost effective and best way to achieve the required result and is doing
the job properly as opposed to bodging.

Patronising as ever.
Hardly. All I have said is that the use of laminate in a kitchen is
a really bad idea, which it is. If somebody would like to spend the
money on demonstrating that for themselves they can do so, I'm not
stopping them. Fortunately laminate is sufficiently cheap that the
cost of learning won't be very high. I don't think that it's
patronising to point out to somebody that they would be making a
mistake.

It has its place. If I had a young family I might well consider it in
certain areas.
Where? It's difficult to see any places where there isn't a much
better solution.

, it is sensitive to

There are water resistant grades, just as there is waterproof
chipboard, and it most certainly isn't easily damaged. It happens to be
the chosen flooring for a number of recital rooms where grand pianos
weighing well over half a ton with metal castors are wheeled about on a
daily basis.
I've seen rooms like this. With scratches all over them and grit
pushed into the surface.

It's noisy and clicky

Not on a solid floor it isn't.
I beg to differ. It is.

Just spare us your elitist ranting.
What on earth are you burbling about now?
Laminate is an inexpensive way for a lot of people to have low
maintenance, practical flooring.
It's about the worst way to have low maintenance, practical flooring -
even worse than carpet if used in kitchens and bathrooms.

Strange concept I know but maybe they regard their houses are somewhere
to live while they get on with more interesting things.
The strange concept is why anybody would want to cover their floor in
clicky plastic.
 
S

stuart noble

So you think it's acceptable for things to be rolling around on the floor?
Who plays ball games in the kitchen? What things are going to roll about?
Replacing the floor is the quickest, most
cost effective and best way to achieve the required result and is doing
the job properly as opposed to bodging.
Unless you change the levels in the other rooms, all you can do is
flatten the floor with the existing slope. What precisely would digging
up the floor achieve?
All I have said is that the use of laminate in a kitchen is a
really bad idea, which it is.
You've said that *it* (regardless of the grade or quality) *is* crap and
fit only to line a skip. I call that pompous, arrogant, and elitist.

Where? It's difficult to see any places where there isn't a much
better solution.
If you can't see why a this is a practical floor covering with kids
around then I give up. It seems to work well for a lot of people, but I
guess they're all wrong
I've seen rooms like this. With scratches all over them and grit
pushed into the surface.
I think you see what you want to see.
 
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T

tvmo

Thanks for all opinions.

The reason for the laminate, I've got experience of laying it and I
haven't found a tile that I like (within my budget).

If I were to rip up the floor, waht would be involved?

Thanks
 

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