Is my builder shafting me with the AC unit he selected?

Discussion in 'Misc DIY' started by jas kim, Sep 7, 2004.

  1. jas kim

    jas kim Guest

    Hi

    I bought a new house from one of these bulk builders. THe house is a
    two story house with two separate A/C units. I have been having some
    trouble in the summer here in Florida with the unit upstairs. While
    it cools adequetely, it seems to stay on all the time. Ie it does not
    cycle on or off like a normal A/C when it is set at any temperature
    below 77 degrees. The fact that it stays on continuously concerns me
    as I suspect that this will ultimately affect its useful life.

    In either case after bringing out the A/C company three times they
    think it is quite normal and ok considering it is the summer and we
    are in Florida.

    Not being satisfied, I went down the street and noted that the A/C
    units that were used in an exact house like mine from the same builder
    were a bit bigger and more efficient. Now the house was more recently
    built so I think that may explain why they have more efficient units
    especially with the EPA continuously increasing the standard. HOwever
    I am curious to know why they installed a larger unit in the other
    house.

    My question is whether the differences in the unit are large enough to
    warrant further inquiry or if the differences are trivial. I am just
    a lay man so I dont know what is a significant btu/h difference. In
    either case, I have a regular unit and a heat pump unit whereas the
    house I am comparing had two heat pump units.

    Here are the specs of the two units in my house:

    Lennox - 10ACC-036
    10.9 Seers
    Cooling - 27,600 - 29,000 btu/h

    Lennox - 10HPB30
    10.5 Seers
    HSPF IV 6.95 / V - 5.95
    Cooling 28,000 - 29,800 btu/h
    Heating 25,400 - 26,000 btu/h

    The house I compared had two heat pump units that were the same size.
    The spec of them were as follows:

    Lennox - 12HPB30 (x 2)
    12 Seers
    HSPF IV 8.2 / V - 7.25
    Cooling 28,400 - 31,000 btu/h
    Heating 29,600 - 30,400 btu/h

    So the question is whether the differences in cooling and heating
    between my units and the units on the comparison house are significant
    enough to explain the problem I am facing.

    Any other comments appreciated.

    Thanks

    jasguild
     
    jas kim, Sep 7, 2004
    #1
    1. Advertisements

  2. "jas kim" <> wrote in message
    > While
    > it cools adequetely, it seems to stay on all the time. Ie it does not
    > cycle on or off like a normal A/C when it is set at any temperature
    > below 77 degrees. The fact that it stays on continuously concerns me
    > as I suspect that this will ultimately affect its useful life.


    >
    > Not being satisfied, I went down the street and noted that the A/C
    > units that were used in an exact house like mine from the same builder
    > were a bit bigger and more efficient.


    The slightly larger size should not make a huge difference. The upstairs
    unit will run longer as there is a greater heat load from the sun on the
    roof.

    Running longer will also dehumidify better. Thee is such a thing as having
    too large of a unit. To determine if yours is correct, you'd have to run a
    Manual J check to determine the load. The builder may have the information
    you need.

    You can also ask for information an alt.hvac ;)
     
    Edwin Pawlowski, Sep 7, 2004
    #2
    1. Advertisements

  3. jas kim

    SQLit Guest

    "jas kim" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > Hi
    >
    > I bought a new house from one of these bulk builders. THe house is a
    > two story house with two separate A/C units. I have been having some
    > trouble in the summer here in Florida with the unit upstairs. While
    > it cools adequetely, it seems to stay on all the time. Ie it does not
    > cycle on or off like a normal A/C when it is set at any temperature
    > below 77 degrees. The fact that it stays on continuously concerns me
    > as I suspect that this will ultimately affect its useful life.
    >
    > In either case after bringing out the A/C company three times they
    > think it is quite normal and ok considering it is the summer and we
    > are in Florida.
    >
    > Not being satisfied, I went down the street and noted that the A/C
    > units that were used in an exact house like mine from the same builder
    > were a bit bigger and more efficient. Now the house was more recently
    > built so I think that may explain why they have more efficient units
    > especially with the EPA continuously increasing the standard. HOwever
    > I am curious to know why they installed a larger unit in the other
    > house.
    >
    > My question is whether the differences in the unit are large enough to
    > warrant further inquiry or if the differences are trivial. I am just
    > a lay man so I dont know what is a significant btu/h difference. In
    > either case, I have a regular unit and a heat pump unit whereas the
    > house I am comparing had two heat pump units.
    >
    > Here are the specs of the two units in my house:
    >
    > Lennox - 10ACC-036
    > 10.9 Seers
    > Cooling - 27,600 - 29,000 btu/h
    >
    > Lennox - 10HPB30
    > 10.5 Seers
    > HSPF IV 6.95 / V - 5.95
    > Cooling 28,000 - 29,800 btu/h
    > Heating 25,400 - 26,000 btu/h
    >
    > The house I compared had two heat pump units that were the same size.
    > The spec of them were as follows:
    >
    > Lennox - 12HPB30 (x 2)
    > 12 Seers
    > HSPF IV 8.2 / V - 7.25
    > Cooling 28,400 - 31,000 btu/h
    > Heating 29,600 - 30,400 btu/h
    >
    > So the question is whether the differences in cooling and heating
    > between my units and the units on the comparison house are significant
    > enough to explain the problem I am facing.
    >
    > Any other comments appreciated.
    >
    > Thanks
    >
    > jasguild


    Did the guy down the street pay for an upgraded unit? Even an 12 seer is
    no bargain in today's market. There are units getting close to 20 out there
    now.

    As for the upstairs unit running all of the time. Yeah that is what is going
    to happen when heat rises. In the winter the bottom will run longer. One of
    the biggest reasons for me not to own an 2 story home. Unless you can shut
    off the stair well your always going to have heat rising.

    I worked on an 2 story home in Arizona once had a 5 ton down and 3 ton up.
    The 3 ton never shut off during the summer months. The owner finally tired
    of the $800 a month electric bills remodeled the 6 month old home with doors
    at the top of the stairs so that the upstairs unit would cycle during the
    summer. The upstairs unit quit working on the third year.

    If you planning on staying in the home check the insulation in the attic. At
    the beginning of the summer I added R-19 to my attic, (home built in 1999)
    I am new to the home, previous owner had bills of $250 a month. My high so
    far is $154


    ---
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    SQLit, Sep 7, 2004
    #3
  4. "Edwin Pawlowski" <> wrote


    > You can also ask for information an alt.hvac ;)


    Or you could STFU and let those from that group respond here in the
    appropriate forum rather than send this person to the wrong NG.

    - Robert
     
    American Mechanical, Sep 8, 2004
    #4
  5. jas kim

    Guest

    American Mechanical <> wrote:

    >...you could STFU and let those from that group respond here in the
    >appropriate forum rather than send this person to the wrong NG.


    There's nothing wrong with asking hvac questions in hvac groups.

    Here's one for you:

    Greg <> wrote:

    >I am looking for something a little more efficient than a clothes line.
    >Has anyone seen plans for some closed loop dryer that can cope with the
    >RH you see in the sub tropics?


    How about a little greenhouse? Hang a piece of plastic over an EW line
    between two poles, then string another line below it. Leave the ends of
    the tent mostly open.

    How open? If they are completely closed, the water vapor never escapes.
    If they are completely open, the greenhouse adds nothing, compared to
    a clothesline.

    Nick
     
    , Sep 8, 2004
    #5
  6. jas kim

    Guest

    bill <> wrote:

    >> American Mechanical <> wrote:
    >>
    >> >...you could STFU and let those from that group respond here in the
    >> >appropriate forum rather than send this person to the wrong NG.

    >>
    >> There's nothing wrong with asking hvac questions in hvac groups.


    Except in the minds of the arrogant lots who wrongly claim otherwise :)

    >> Here's one for you:
    >>
    >> Greg <> wrote:
    >>
    >> >I am looking for something a little more efficient than a clothes line.
    >> >Has anyone seen plans for some closed loop dryer that can cope with the
    >> >RH you see in the sub tropics?

    >>
    >> How about a little greenhouse? Hang a piece of plastic over an EW line
    >> between two poles, then string another line below it. Leave the ends of
    >> the tent mostly open.
    >>
    >> How open? If they are completely closed, the water vapor never escapes.
    >> If they are completely open, the greenhouse adds nothing, compared to
    >> a clothesline.


    >Nick you are a fucktard. Sci.engr heat-vent-ac. Keep your moaners shit
    >in alt.HOME.repair where it belongs.


    Who says? :)

    You are also invited to answer this hvac science and engineering question.
    Be sure to compare the drying rate to an outdoor clothesline and include
    the effects of condensation, if anticipated.

    Nick
     
    , Sep 8, 2004
    #6
  7. "tgilb" <> wrote in message
    news:YlF%c.11521$...
    >
    > "Edwin Pawlowski" <> wrote in message
    > news:pik%c.1128$9P4.905@trndny02...
    > |
    > | "jas kim" <> wrote in message
    > | > While
    > | > it cools adequetely, it seems to stay on all the time. Ie it does not
    > | > cycle on or off like a normal A/C when it is set at any temperature
    > | > below 77 degrees.
    > <snip>
    > |
    > | You can also ask for information an alt.hvac ;)
    > |
    > Best put on your asbestos suit before posting any questions to alt.hvac
    > being just a mere mortal.
    >
    >


    Why? Oh..thats right....alt.hvac is not for homeowners, and thats why many
    of us post here too..
     
    Steve@carolinabreezehvac, Sep 9, 2004
    #7
  8. "American Mechanical" <> wrote in message
    news:pVD%c.17876$...
    >
    > "Edwin Pawlowski" <> wrote
    >
    >
    >> You can also ask for information an alt.hvac ;)

    >
    > Or you could STFU and let those from that group respond here in the
    > appropriate forum rather than send this person to the wrong NG.
    >
    > - Robert


    Why? I've met a few guys from that group and they are a rather sociable
    bunch.
     
    Edwin Pawlowski, Sep 9, 2004
    #8
  9. jas kim

    CR Guest

    "Steve@carolinabreezehvac" <>
    wrote:

    >> Best put on your asbestos suit before posting any questions to alt.hvac
    >> being just a mere mortal.
    >>

    >
    >Why? Oh..thats right....alt.hvac is not for homeowners, and thats why many
    >of us post here too..


    Now how would your average newsgroup reader know this?

    Alt.hvac seems like the place to ask about hvac stuff, until they get
    flamed for asking a reasonable question,



    email to (remove the "notreal-")
     
    CR, Sep 9, 2004
    #9
  10. "CR" <> wrote in message
    > Now how would your average newsgroup reader know this?
    >
    > Alt.hvac seems like the place to ask about hvac stuff, until they get
    > flamed for asking a reasonable question,
    >


    If the hvac guys wanted to keep the group on a professional level, they
    should call the newsgroup alt.hvac.professional Instead, a few of the
    members take delight in flaming anyone from outside that asks a question,
    even it if is hvac related. Unless the group is moderated, I don't see
    how they can prevent others reading/posting to the group.
     
    Edwin Pawlowski, Sep 9, 2004
    #10
  11. jas kim

    Guest

    >>> Greg <> wrote:
    >>>
    >>> >I am looking for something a little more efficient than a clothes line.
    >>> >Has anyone seen plans for some closed loop dryer that can cope with the
    >>> >RH you see in the sub tropics?
    >>>
    >>> How about a little greenhouse? Hang a piece of plastic over an EW line
    >>> between two poles, then string another line below it. Leave the ends of
    >>> the tent mostly open.
    >>>
    >>> How open? If they are completely closed, the water vapor never escapes.
    >>> If they are completely open, the greenhouse adds nothing, compared to
    >>> a clothesline.


    Don Ocean and and PJM are also invited to answer this hvac science and
    engineering question. Please compare the drying rate to an outdoor
    clothesline and include the effects of condensation, if anticipated.

    For the sake of definiteness, if Greg wants to remove 12 pounds of water
    from 12 pounds of clothes with 400 ft^2 of surface (both sides) in minimal
    time in full sun in August in Key Largo, when it's 84 F and w = 0.0185,
    using a 16'x16' R1 greenhouse with 90% solar transmission, how many cfm
    of outdoor air should flow through the greenhouse?

    Nick
     
    , Sep 9, 2004
    #11
  12. jas kim

    Guest

    bill <> wrote:

    >> Don Ocean and and PJM are also invited to answer this hvac science and
    >> engineering question. Please compare the drying rate to an outdoor
    >> clothesline and include the effects of condensation, if anticipated.
    >>
    >> For the sake of definiteness, if Greg wants to remove 12 pounds of water
    >> from 12 pounds of clothes with 400 ft^2 of surface (both sides) in minimal
    >> time in full sun in August in Key Largo, when it's 84 F and w = 0.0185,
    >> using a 16'x16' R1 greenhouse with 90% solar transmission, how many cfm
    >> of outdoor air should flow through the greenhouse?


    >Just what makes you think sci.engr.heat-vent-ac is interested or the
    >appropriate place to discuss clothes drying?


    It's a matter of basic HVAC science and engineering. Chapter 28 of the
    ASHRAE Applications handbook is all about drying, drying times, and so on.
    The SCI.ENGR.heat-vent-ac group should eagerly welcome such basic questions.

    What are your answers?

    Nick
     
    , Sep 9, 2004
    #12
  13. On Thu, 09 Sep 2004 13:40:58 GMT, bill <>
    wrote:

    >In article <chpiof$>,
    > wrote:
    >
    >> Don Ocean and and PJM are also invited to answer this hvac science and
    >> engineering question. Please compare the drying rate to an outdoor
    >> clothesline and include the effects of condensation, if anticipated.
    >>
    >> For the sake of definiteness, if Greg wants to remove 12 pounds of water
    >> from 12 pounds of clothes with 400 ft^2 of surface (both sides) in minimal
    >> time in full sun in August in Key Largo, when it's 84 F and w = 0.0185,
    >> using a 16'x16' R1 greenhouse with 90% solar transmission, how many cfm
    >> of outdoor air should flow through the greenhouse?
    >>
    >> Nick


    Get help , Nick. Psychiatric help. Maybe they can help you
    do something useful with what remains of your life.


    >>

    >
    >This is for you to answer Nick.
    >Just what makes you think sci.engr.heat-vent-ac is interested or the
    >appropriate place to discuss clothes drying?
    >
    >Your mother drop you on your head or are you so desparate for attention
    >you have to post shit?



    Paul ( pjm @ pobox . com ) - remove spaces to email me
    'Some days, it's just not worth chewing through the restraints.'

    HVAC/R program for Palm PDA's
    Free demo now available online http://pmilligan.net/palm/
    Free Temperature / Pressure charts for 38 Ref's http://pmilligan.net/pmtherm/
     
    pjm@see_my_sig_for_address.com, Sep 9, 2004
    #13
  14. jas kim

    Guest

    bill <> wrote:

    >> >Don Ocean and and PJM are also invited to answer this hvac science and
    >> >engineering question. Please compare the drying rate to an outdoor
    >> >clothesline and include the effects of condensation, if anticipated.
    >> >
    >> > For the sake of definiteness, if Greg wants to remove 12 pounds of water
    >> > from 12 pounds of clothes with 400 ft^2 of surface (both sides) in minimal
    >> > time in full sun in August in Key Largo, when it's 84 F and w = 0.0185,
    >> > using a 16'x16' R1 greenhouse with 90% solar transmission, how many cfm
    >> > of outdoor air should flow through the greenhouse?

    >>
    >> >Just what makes you think sci.engr.heat-vent-ac is interested or the
    >> >appropriate place to discuss clothes drying?


    Where ELSE would we discuss this question? :)

    >> It's a matter of basic HVAC science and engineering. Chapter 28 of the
    >> ASHRAE Applications handbook is all about drying, drying times, and so on.
    >> The SCI.ENGR.heat-vent-ac group should eagerly welcome such basic questions.

    >
    >...There isn't a single mention of clothes or dryer in the 2000 version.
    >And as far as I can tell. Except for venting of a clothes dryer, there
    >is absolutely nothing on "drying, drying times, and so on" of clothes in
    >ASHRAE books anywhere.


    My 1991 Applications book has drying hygrometry and drying time calcs
    on pages 28.1 and 28.2...

    >Care to explain that?


    Chapter 28 applies to all kinds of drying, as we can see from some of
    the references, eg

    Bell, J. R., and P. Grosberg. 1962. The movement of vapor and moisture
    during the falling rate period of drying of thick textile materials.
    Journal of the Textile Institute, Transactions 53(5):T250; ABIPC 33: 72, and

    Nissan, AH. 1968. Drying of sheet materials. Textile Research Journal 38:447.

    Now then, got any answers?

    Nick
     
    , Sep 9, 2004
    #14
  15. jas kim

    jas kim Guest

    Ahh. Now I see what the problem is. Some fool who thinks this forum
    belongs to him got his panties in a wad because a lay person (that
    would be me) posted a lay question (that would be mine) on this site.

    Let me explain. I am the original poster. I know nothing about A/c
    except that mine was not blowing to my expectation. I came online
    like I normally do and read a bit before I posted. Then I looked at
    the newsgroup that have discussions about a/c. Then I posted on such
    newsgroup asking some non technical questions but after some research.
    (I can only imagine what the reaction would have been if I had not
    done a bit of research before I asked my question).

    I apologize for not being an expert and hurting anyone's feeling for
    posting on "their" newsgroup. My intent was just to get some answers.

    jasguild

    "Edwin Pawlowski" <> wrote in message news:<R5W%c.9188$>...
    > "CR" <> wrote in message
    > > Now how would your average newsgroup reader know this?
    > >
    > > Alt.hvac seems like the place to ask about hvac stuff, until they get
    > > flamed for asking a reasonable question,
    > >

    >
    > If the hvac guys wanted to keep the group on a professional level, they
    > should call the newsgroup alt.hvac.professional Instead, a few of the
    > members take delight in flaming anyone from outside that asks a question,
    > even it if is hvac related. Unless the group is moderated, I don't see
    > how they can prevent others reading/posting to the group.
     
    jas kim, Sep 9, 2004
    #15
  16. jas kim

    Guest

    <pjm@see_my_sig_for_address.com> wrote:

    >>> Don Ocean and and PJM are also invited to answer this hvac science and
    >>> engineering question. Please compare the drying rate to an outdoor
    >>> clothesline and include the effects of condensation, if anticipated.
    >>>
    >>> For the sake of definiteness, if Greg wants to remove 12 pounds of water
    >>> from 12 pounds of clothes with 400 ft^2 of surface (both sides) in minimal
    >>> time in full sun in August in Key Largo, when it's 84 F and w = 0.0185,
    >>> using a 16'x16' R1 greenhouse with 90% solar transmission, how many cfm
    >>> of outdoor air should flow through the greenhouse?


    > Get help , Nick. Psychiatric help...


    Do I play gatekeeper in unmoderated newsgroups? :)

    Nick
     
    , Sep 9, 2004
    #16
  17. jas kim

    Guest

    bill <> wrote:

    >> Where ELSE would we discuss this question? :)

    >
    >Alt.clothes, alt.clothing for starters.


    I disagree. What do they know of I. S. Bowen's 1926 equation?

    >> >>It's a matter of basic HVAC science and engineering. Chapter 28 of the
    >> >>ASHRAE Applications handbook is all about drying, drying times, and so on.
    >> >>The SCI.ENGR.heat-vent-ac group should eagerly welcome such basic
    >> >>questions.
    >> >
    >> >...There isn't a single mention of clothes or dryer in the 2000 version.
    >> >And as far as I can tell. Except for venting of a clothes dryer, there
    >> >is absolutely nothing on "drying, drying times, and so on" of clothes in
    >> >ASHRAE books anywhere.

    >>
    >> My 1991 Applications book has drying hygrometry and drying time calcs
    >> on pages 28.1 and 28.2...
    >>
    >> >Care to explain that?

    >>
    >> Chapter 28 applies to all kinds of drying, as we can see from some of
    >> the references, eg
    >>
    >> Bell, J. R., and P. Grosberg. 1962. The movement of vapor and moisture
    >> during the falling rate period of drying of thick textile materials.
    >> Journal of the Textile Institute, Transactions 53(5):T250; ABIPC 33: 72
    >> and Nissan, AH. 1968. Drying of sheet materials. Textile Research Journal
    >> 38:447.


    >Clothes drying references? Where are they?


    See above, at the end of Chapter 28. Perhaps it's time to stop your silly
    gatekeeper games and answer the question, if you can. If not, your silence
    will suffice.

    If Greg wants to remove 12 pounds of water from 12 pounds of clothes with
    400 ft^2 of surface (both sides) in minimal time in full sun in August in
    Key Largo, when it's 84 F and w = 0.0185, using a 16'x16' R1 greenhouse with
    90% solar transmission, how many cfm of outdoor air need flow through the
    greenhouse? With no ventilation, the water vapor never escapes. Too much,
    and the greenhouse adds nothing, compared to a clothesline.

    Please compare the drying rate to an outdoor clothesline and include
    the effects of condensation, if anticipated.

    Nick
     
    , Sep 9, 2004
    #17
  18. jas kim

    Guest

    bill <> wrote:

    >> ...Perhaps it's time to stop your silly gatekeeper games and answer
    >> the question, if you can. If not, your silence will suffice.


    >> If Greg wants to remove 12 pounds of water from 12 pounds of clothes with
    >> 400 ft^2 of surface (both sides) in minimal time in full sun in August in
    >> Key Largo, when it's 84 F and w = 0.0185, using a 16'x16' R1 greenhouse with
    >> 90% solar transmission, how many cfm of outdoor air need flow through the
    >> greenhouse? With no ventilation, the water vapor never escapes. Too much,
    >> and the greenhouse adds nothing, compared to a clothesline.
    >>
    >> Please compare the drying rate to an outdoor clothesline and include
    >> the effects of condensation, if anticipated.


    >You are posting to alt.solar.thermal and alt.home.repair
    >Leave sci.engr.heat-vent-ac off your fucking clothesline bullshit.


    No thanks. It's entirely on-topic. What isn't on-topic is personal attacks,
    laughable bullying wrongful attempts to control an ummoderated newsgroup,
    and amusing credential wars in which guys with wrenches in hand and grease
    on their faces attempt to construe real engineers as "unprofessional" :)

    Nick
     
    , Sep 10, 2004
    #18
  19. jas kim

    Nick Pine Guest

    Don Ocean <> wrote:
    >
    > wrote:
    >
    >> bill <> wrote:
    >>
    >>>>Where ELSE would we discuss this question? :)
    >>>
    >>>Alt.clothes, alt.clothing for starters.

    >>
    >> I disagree. What do they know of I. S. Bowen's 1926 equation?
    >>
    >>>>>>It's a matter of basic HVAC science and engineering. Chapter 28 of the
    >>>>>>ASHRAE Applications book is all about drying, drying times, and so on.
    >>>>>>The SCI.ENGR.heat-vent-ac group should eagerly welcome such basic
    >>>>>>questions.
    >>>>>
    >>>>>...There isn't a single mention of clothes or dryer in the 2000 version.
    >>>>>And as far as I can tell. Except for venting of a clothes dryer, there
    >>>>>is absolutely nothing on "drying, drying times, and so on" of clothes in
    >>>>>ASHRAE books anywhere.
    >>>>
    >>>>My 1991 Applications book has drying hygrometry and drying time calcs
    >>>>on pages 28.1 and 28.2...
    >>>>
    >>>>>Care to explain that?
    >>>>
    >>>>Chapter 28 applies to all kinds of drying, as we can see from some of
    >>>>the references, eg
    >>>>
    >>>>Bell, J. R., and P. Grosberg. 1962. The movement of vapor and moisture
    >>>>during the falling rate period of drying of thick textile materials.
    >>>>Journal of the Textile Institute, Transactions 53(5):T250; ABIPC 33: 72
    >>>>and Nissan, AH. 1968. Drying of sheet materials. Textile Research Journal
    >>>>38:447.

    >>
    >>>Clothes drying references? Where are they?

    >>
    >> See above, at the end of Chapter 28. Perhaps it's time to stop your silly
    >> gatekeeper games and answer the question, if you can. If not, your silence
    >> will suffice.
    >>
    >> If Greg wants to remove 12 pounds of water from 12 pounds of clothes with
    >> 400 ft^2 of surface (both sides) in minimal time in full sun in August in
    >> Key Largo, when it's 84 F and w = 0.0185, using a 16'x16' R1 greenhouse with
    >> 90% solar transmission, how many cfm of outdoor air need flow through the
    >> greenhouse? With no ventilation, the water vapor never escapes. Too much,
    >> and the greenhouse adds nothing, compared to a clothesline.
    >>
    >> Please compare the drying rate to an outdoor clothesline and include
    >> the effects of condensation, if anticipated.

    >
    >I have a better question: How many liberal assholes like you blowing
    >smoke can dry those same clothes in one-half hour? ;-p
    >
    >***Please note that I delete all but the pertinent news group!***


    I'm happy to repost this to display your good will and erudition.

    Nick
     
    Nick Pine, Sep 10, 2004
    #19
  20. jas kim

    Noon-Air Guest

    fuckin idiot

    *PLONK*

    "Nick Pine" <> wrote in message
    news:chqogk$...
    > Don Ocean <> wrote:
    >>
    >> wrote:
    >>
    >>> bill <> wrote:
    >>>
    >>>>>Where ELSE would we discuss this question? :)
    >>>>
    >>>>Alt.clothes, alt.clothing for starters.
    >>>
    >>> I disagree. What do they know of I. S. Bowen's 1926 equation?
    >>>
    >>>>>>>It's a matter of basic HVAC science and engineering. Chapter 28 of
    >>>>>>>the
    >>>>>>>ASHRAE Applications book is all about drying, drying times, and so
    >>>>>>>on.
    >>>>>>>The SCI.ENGR.heat-vent-ac group should eagerly welcome such basic
    >>>>>>>questions.
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>>...There isn't a single mention of clothes or dryer in the 2000
    >>>>>>version.
    >>>>>>And as far as I can tell. Except for venting of a clothes dryer, there
    >>>>>>is absolutely nothing on "drying, drying times, and so on" of clothes
    >>>>>>in
    >>>>>>ASHRAE books anywhere.
    >>>>>
    >>>>>My 1991 Applications book has drying hygrometry and drying time calcs
    >>>>>on pages 28.1 and 28.2...
    >>>>>
    >>>>>>Care to explain that?
    >>>>>
    >>>>>Chapter 28 applies to all kinds of drying, as we can see from some of
    >>>>>the references, eg
    >>>>>
    >>>>>Bell, J. R., and P. Grosberg. 1962. The movement of vapor and moisture
    >>>>>during the falling rate period of drying of thick textile materials.
    >>>>>Journal of the Textile Institute, Transactions 53(5):T250; ABIPC 33: 72
    >>>>>and Nissan, AH. 1968. Drying of sheet materials. Textile Research
    >>>>>Journal
    >>>>>38:447.
    >>>
    >>>>Clothes drying references? Where are they?
    >>>
    >>> See above, at the end of Chapter 28. Perhaps it's time to stop your
    >>> silly
    >>> gatekeeper games and answer the question, if you can. If not, your
    >>> silence
    >>> will suffice.
    >>>
    >>> If Greg wants to remove 12 pounds of water from 12 pounds of clothes
    >>> with
    >>> 400 ft^2 of surface (both sides) in minimal time in full sun in August
    >>> in
    >>> Key Largo, when it's 84 F and w = 0.0185, using a 16'x16' R1 greenhouse
    >>> with
    >>> 90% solar transmission, how many cfm of outdoor air need flow through
    >>> the
    >>> greenhouse? With no ventilation, the water vapor never escapes. Too
    >>> much,
    >>> and the greenhouse adds nothing, compared to a clothesline.
    >>>
    >>> Please compare the drying rate to an outdoor clothesline and include
    >>> the effects of condensation, if anticipated.

    >>
    >>I have a better question: How many liberal assholes like you blowing
    >>smoke can dry those same clothes in one-half hour? ;-p
    >>
    >>***Please note that I delete all but the pertinent news group!***

    >
    > I'm happy to repost this to display your good will and erudition.
    >
    > Nick
    >
     
    Noon-Air, Sep 10, 2004
    #20
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