How big are surveyor pegs


M

mm

How big are surveyor pegs?

I've made arrangement to borrow a metal detector in the hope of
finding one or more surveyor pegs. I'm at the corner of the
development, so the original property was surveyed and perhaps pegged
at my corner, and the previous owner of my house had his own survey,
which might have resulted in pegs.

So it occurs to me, if and when I find the peg, how do other people
know I haven't moved it? My neighbor is suspicious enough to think I
might do that.

How long is it? Regardless, surely it can be removed with hand tools.
And replaced 6 inches away. Hey! How do I know he didn't do that
already?

There has already been one survey here. I don't want to pay for a
second.
 
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M

mm

Thanks for your good reply.
It is normal to drive the pin below grade.
Just an inch or two? So I need a good metal detector.
The pin is usually a
piece of rebar on end, so it is a fairly small target to find.
They often have a plastic cap installed on the top with the
surveyor's name on it. The pin is 2' long. I suppose someone
could move a survey pin, but it would seem extreme.
Property lines seem to bring out the extreme in some people, and some
of them are crazy already. :)
 
S

salty

How big are surveyor pegs?

I've made arrangement to borrow a metal detector in the hope of
finding one or more surveyor pegs. I'm at the corner of the
development, so the original property was surveyed and perhaps pegged
at my corner, and the previous owner of my house had his own survey,
which might have resulted in pegs.

So it occurs to me, if and when I find the peg, how do other people
know I haven't moved it? My neighbor is suspicious enough to think I
might do that.

How long is it? Regardless, surely it can be removed with hand tools.
And replaced 6 inches away. Hey! How do I know he didn't do that
already?

There has already been one survey here. I don't want to pay for a
second.
Find out who did the last survey. It will be noted on the survey.
Getting a previous survey "verified" by the same surveyor can often
save you a lot of money.
 
H

Hustlin' Hank

How big are surveyor pegs?

I've made arrangement to borrow a metal detector in the hope of
finding one or more surveyor pegs. �I'm at the corner of the
development, so the original property was surveyed and perhaps pegged
at my corner, and the previous owner of my house had his own survey,
which might have resulted in pegs.

So it occurs to me, if and when I find the peg, how do other people
know I haven't moved it? �My neighbor is suspicious enough to think I
might do that. �

How long is it? �Regardless, surely it can be removed with hand tools.
And replaced 6 inches away. � Hey! �How do I know he didn't do that
already? �

There has already been one survey here. I don't want to pay for a
second.
Pins are usually 1" metal rods that extend below the frostline so they
won't be shoved up by freezing and thawing. It could be below grade by
a foot or so, depending on your location.

Where I live (central Ohio), the property line begins in the middle of
the road and extends towards the rear of the property. There is a 30'
easement from the middle of the road. So, you may, or may not, have a
pin on the front of your lot.

Unless you're putting up a fence, building, driveway and etc., there
isn't really a need to know where the pin is. But if you are
determined to find it, you may have difficulty finding it with a cheap
metal detector. The county courthouse should have records that state
who performed the last survey. It should be on your deed also. Call
the people who last surveyed it and see what they would charge you to
find it. It is usually at most a couple hundred dollars.

Hank
 
G

George

How big are surveyor pegs?

I've made arrangement to borrow a metal detector in the hope of
finding one or more surveyor pegs. I'm at the corner of the
development, so the original property was surveyed and perhaps pegged
at my corner, and the previous owner of my house had his own survey,
which might have resulted in pegs.

So it occurs to me, if and when I find the peg, how do other people
know I haven't moved it? My neighbor is suspicious enough to think I
might do that.
If that is the case you are wasting your time.
How long is it? Regardless, surely it can be removed with hand tools.
And replaced 6 inches away. Hey! How do I know he didn't do that
already?
You bring the surveyor back and have them confirm that the pins are
correct.
There has already been one survey here. I don't want to pay for a
second.
If the neighbor doesn't trust you what do you hope to prove by declaring
"see, there's the corner pin"?
 
J

Jules Richardson

How big are surveyor pegs?

I've made arrangement to borrow a metal detector in the hope of finding
one or more surveyor pegs. I'm at the corner of the development, so the
original property was surveyed and perhaps pegged at my corner, and the
previous owner of my house had his own survey, which might have resulted
in pegs.
Doesn't the paperwork for your house state the size of the lot? Ours does
- and even if it didn't, I could presumably poke the county folk and give
them the lot number and they could tell me. Then it's just a case of
using a tape measure...
 
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D

dpb

Jules Richardson wrote:
....
Doesn't the paperwork for your house state the size of the lot? Ours does
- and even if it didn't, I could presumably poke the county folk and give
them the lot number and they could tell me. Then it's just a case of
using a tape measure...
But does one know where to start measuring from, precisely???

--
 
G

George

Doesn't the paperwork for your house state the size of the lot? Ours does
- and even if it didn't, I could presumably poke the county folk and give
them the lot number and they could tell me. Then it's just a case of
using a tape measure...
If you don't have a known good reference where would you place the end
of the tape measure?
 
S

salty

Jules Richardson wrote:
...


But does one know where to start measuring from, precisely???
I went to city hall and obtained a copy of the survey plot they had on
file. I was then able to measure from the sides and corners of my
house, which was on the plot print out to verify where my property
line was. The plot showed the distance from corners of the structure
to property lines. It was pretty simple.

I even learned that the driveway had been relocated from where it was
when the survey was done.
 
F

Frank

I went to city hall and obtained a copy of the survey plot they had on
file. I was then able to measure from the sides and corners of my
house, which was on the plot print out to verify where my property
line was. The plot showed the distance from corners of the structure
to property lines. It was pretty simple.

I even learned that the driveway had been relocated from where it was
when the survey was done.
This may or may not work. I had a neighbor that said his house was
off in the survey when he measured to marker.
Around here, survey is needed when property changes hands but
surveyers may not even come out and if you want markers they charge
extra as survey is just checking last survey. I've been watching my
property line change back and forth with each owner. I gained about 5
feet last time which for a 300 ft property line is 1,500 sq. ft. ;)
 
S

salty

This may or may not work. I had a neighbor that said his house was
off in the survey when he measured to marker.
Maybe he was off! LOL

I had the plot for the houses on either side of my property, and
measuring from their houses to the line came to the same place. I'm
very confident that everyting is as it is supposed to be, and so are
the neighbors.
Around here, survey is needed when property changes hands but
surveyers may not even come out and if you want markers they charge
extra as survey is just checking last survey. I've been watching my
property line change back and forth with each owner. I gained about 5
feet last time which for a 300 ft property line is 1,500 sq. ft. ;)
I think we were able to close using the original 1952 survey. It was a
while back, but I don't remember paying any surveyorsd for anything,
and the survey at City Hall is the original one from when the house
was built.
 
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D

DanG

It is normal to drive the pin below grade. The pin is usually a
piece of rebar on end, so it is a fairly small target to find.
They often have a plastic cap installed on the top with the
surveyor's name on it. The pin is 2' long. I suppose someone
could move a survey pin, but it would seem extreme. Once you've
found one, go find the next to verify the distances on the plot.
It is not unusual for two surveyors to have slightly different
answers.
 
D

dpb

Maybe he was off! LOL

I had the plot for the houses on either side of my property, and
measuring from their houses to the line came to the same place. I'm
very confident that everyting is as it is supposed to be, and so are
the neighbors.
....

IME, that'd be pretty unusual for the plats to be very accurate compared
to as builts. Not that it's impossible, but in general the surveys
don't worry about where things are _on_ the plat but only where the
boundaries are. Much will depend on age of the survey and for whom it
was done and specifically why, of course...

--
 
S

salty

...

IME, that'd be pretty unusual for the plats to be very accurate compared
to as builts. Not that it's impossible, but in general the surveys
don't worry about where things are _on_ the plat but only where the
boundaries are. Much will depend on age of the survey and for whom it
was done and specifically why, of course...
All I can tell you is that in my case, everything seems to check out.

My property is further complicated because an additional piece was
purchased separately and added on.
 
J

Joe

How big are surveyor pegs?
Old surveyors pegs in our (central Illinois) area were 2' long 1"
galvanized pipe. A problem that is common in our locale is that the
early surveyors were evidently sloppy with their magnetic North
settings. When I wanted a precise location for a fence around the
first house I bought, the surveyors discovered that the east-west line
was nearly 2' off to the east. My lawyer advised that modern
technology trumps old, and that legal descriptions must be held
intact. My neighbor to the west was elated that his structures were
well placed and the neighbor to the east was rather upset at losing a
nice fruit tree that had been planted close to the old line and was
now in my yard. Fortunately we all got along.
Later, moving to a nearby town, the same errors arose, this time both
east-west and north-south locations off by about 1 1/2' from 1890 or
so surveys. One result was when a neighbor sold her house, it was
necessary for her to have the swimming pool privacy fence moved to the
newer lot line. Encroachment rules did not permit leaving it there
since formal notification and permission had been granted and
relawyering the deal would cost more than moving the fence.
Like they say in cow country, 'good fences make good neighbors', and
that applies to valid lot lines.

Joe
 
D

Dan Lanciani

| How big are surveyor pegs?
|
| I've made arrangement to borrow a metal detector in the hope of
| finding one or more surveyor pegs. I'm at the corner of the
| development, so the original property was surveyed and perhaps pegged
| at my corner, and the previous owner of my house had his own survey,
| which might have resulted in pegs.
|
| So it occurs to me, if and when I find the peg, how do other people
| know I haven't moved it? My neighbor is suspicious enough to think I
| might do that.
|
| How long is it? Regardless, surely it can be removed with hand tools.
| And replaced 6 inches away. Hey! How do I know he didn't do that
| already?
|
| There has already been one survey here. I don't want to pay for a
| second.

There's another problem even if you find some pegs. Without a survey
that references them you don't really know what they mean. For example,
I have a peg that could very well be the lot corner but is actually about
six inches off (funny you should mention that number). The last time I
had a survey done they mentioned this but the scale of their drawing was
such that the displacement was invisible. (I asked for and received a
detail drawing that makes it clear.) There is another peg that you might
think was on the rear lot line but is actually a few feet off. N.B. I
don't think these pegs were errors nor has the line moved due to better
technology; they just weren't being used for the obvious purpose.

I believe it's bad form (perhaps even illegal) to remove pegs even if
they are confusing, so they tend to accumulate. I don't think a survey
becomes public record unless it is recorded. If you are lucky the caps
indicate which surveyor drove the pegs, but I don't know that they would
tell you about the related survey if somebody else paid for it. At least
if you can match the caps you might be able to figure out which pegs were
driven at the same time.

Dan Lanciani
[email protected]*com
 
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E

EXT

mm said:
How big are surveyor pegs?

I've made arrangement to borrow a metal detector in the hope of
finding one or more surveyor pegs. I'm at the corner of the
development, so the original property was surveyed and perhaps pegged
at my corner, and the previous owner of my house had his own survey,
which might have resulted in pegs.

So it occurs to me, if and when I find the peg, how do other people
know I haven't moved it? My neighbor is suspicious enough to think I
might do that.

How long is it? Regardless, surely it can be removed with hand tools.
And replaced 6 inches away. Hey! How do I know he didn't do that
already?

There has already been one survey here. I don't want to pay for a
second.
I have seen everything from a wooden 2" x 2", rebar, 1/2" x 1/2" square bar,
to 1" pipe. Around here they are only 2 to 3 feet long. I found one old
stake that had a hand forged point on one end and the remains of threads on
the other, it was 3/4" in diameter. I have never seen a brass stake as they
are called here.
 
B

bud--

Joe said:
Old surveyors pegs in our (central Illinois) area were 2' long 1"
galvanized pipe. A problem that is common in our locale is that the
early surveyors were evidently sloppy with their magnetic North
settings. When I wanted a precise location for a fence around the
first house I bought, the surveyors discovered that the east-west line
was nearly 2' off to the east.
I used to have high regard for surveyors. I have done some CAD drafting
of old commercial and industrial buildings and had the current surveys
of them - about 5 years ago.

One building had both property long dimensions about 5 FEET to far to
the west. One of the surveyed property lines went through a loading dock.

One building had a parcel included that was not part of the property.
The same building had a physical description of the building that had an
error (not major).

Another building had a major error in the description of the building
(number of floors). (Location on the survey was OK.)

Another building had a vacated street that had been added. Using the
description in the survey there was about a 5 foot closure error when
you drafted the street (about 450 feet long).
My lawyer advised that modern
technology trumps old, and that legal descriptions must be held
intact. My neighbor to the west was elated that his structures were
well placed and the neighbor to the east was rather upset at losing a
nice fruit tree that had been planted close to the old line and was
now in my yard. Fortunately we all got along.
Later, moving to a nearby town, the same errors arose, this time both
east-west and north-south locations off by about 1 1/2' from 1890 or
so surveys. One result was when a neighbor sold her house, it was
necessary for her to have the swimming pool privacy fence moved to the
newer lot line. Encroachment rules did not permit leaving it there
since formal notification and permission had been granted and
relawyering the deal would cost more than moving the fence.
Like they say in cow country, 'good fences make good neighbors', and
that applies to valid lot lines.
If someone uses your property as their own for a period of time you can
loose it through "adverse possession". Would think you might be able to
avoid that by renting the property for $1 a year, with paperwork. Moving
the fence is a cleaner fix.
 
J

Jim Elbrecht

bud-- said:
Joe wrote:
-snip-
-snip-

If someone uses your property as their own for a period of time you can
loose it through "adverse possession".
-snip-

'Formal notification and permission' removes the 'adverse' part of
possession.

My lawyer suggested I fence across the neighbor's driveway when I
bought this property. It had been in use for 40 years across an
unusable part of my property. We had met the 80 yr old couple who
lived there & had already assured them we wouldn't mess with the
driveway.

When they died the grandson went to get a mortgage & the bank made him
get permission for the encroachment. Brilliant! I wish my
lawyer had suggested it 20 years earlier. It protects me from adverse
possession-[though I don't think I'd miss that chunk of property
anyway] and protects my neighbor if some future owner of my property
wants to be an ass.

Jim
 
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K

KC

A problem that is common in our locale is that the
early surveyors were evidently sloppy with their magnetic North
settings. When I wanted a precise location for a fence around the
first house I bought, the surveyors discovered that the east-west line
was nearly 2' off to the east.
Magnetic north declination is constantly shifting. To determine a
magnetic
north setting from years ago vs a magnetic north recheck of that
setting
today would require a correction factor for the shifting of the
field. IIRC,
the true north pole is about 100+ miles from the magnetic north pole.
True
north is determined by solar measurements rather than compass.

KC
 

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