Furnace Installation....Reasonable price???

[ashwini19952002]

Hello,
I am located in Ottawa, Canada. We are thinking of replacing
our 20 yr. old furnace. The old furnace works but we recently had a
couple of service calls and thought best to start looking at
replacement.
Yesterday we were quoted a price of $5000 Canadian dollars
(around $4300 US) for a replacement furnace.
The new furnace will be a high efficiency Carrier Infinity 96
(dual stage heating, variable speed DC motor, 5 yr parts warranty and a
lifetime heat exchanger warranty). This was quoted by a reputable and
large company with offices across the province.
I was wondering if this is a reasonable price.
Thank you.

 

[m Ransley]

The Carrier "96" is only 96% efficient on their smallest 38000 input btu
model the rest of the infinity line are apx 94-94.5%, a deceptive
marketing ploy. With VS DC get the 10 yr warranty or dont get it , even
though its redesigned by GE they may cost 600$ US when it breaks, but
with a 10 yr I would do it. Price, nobody can see your install but im
quoted 3200 US apx 60000 btu unit with a fancy thermostat. My install is
easy. Many others are 94.5%, Armstrong even has a stainless steel heat
exchanger. Was a load calc done in writing

 

[ashwini19952002]

Hello,
Sorry, I forgot to mention that it will be a 100,000 BTU unit.
The load calculation was done (but not in writing). The existing
furnace is 80,000 BTUs. The salesperson mentioned that for our house
(2700 sq.ft) the 80,000 BTU unit will suffice but it would be better to
go to the next higher BTU unit. The price differential between 80,000
and 100,000 is only around $200.

 

[louie]

You want to be careful with that. I've been looking for a new furnace
recently too, and in my reading have learned that oversizing a furnace
will not only cost more initially, it can also make the house have
uncomfortable hot & cold spots, the furnace will cycle on and off more
quickly and more often which will shorten its life cycle.

 

[m Ransley]

If he didnt show you the load calc I bet he didn`t do one. I don`t think
you can do it without writing it out, and you should demand a copy. If
80000 worked at your coldest days keeping you at 70f without running
24x7 then 100000 is much more than you need or want An 80000 btu unit ,
your old unit, say its 80% efficient put out 64000 btu, but it may be
much less, 60% efficient, poorly sized ducts, dirty heat exchanger, AC
coil, burner not running right etc etc. so it could be 48000 or less
output for example, mine was 50%. An 80000 btu infinity at 94.1% actual
[not 96] is 49000 on low fire and 75000 high fire btu, so depending on
what your unit really outputs and an honest load calc in writing, an
80000 infinity could be way oversized since it is more efficient. A
100000 infinity is 94.1% efficient not 96, outputs 94000 high 61000 low
fire btu. Oversize and you won`t be as comfortable if you consider it
goes to high fire after a few minutes in standard settings, it will heat
you faster unevenly. I went from 100000 btu to 47-74000, finally I got a
written load calc it was 50000 btu, I heat a bit uneven and am oversized
as I never need my second stage even at -20f with 30 mph winds. My
second stage is good for when I come home from set back temps. But I
will go smaller on my next unit soon. You need to learn more on when the
second stage is used, 1st stage should be lower for milder days with
second needed only when it can`t keep up, unfortunatly I think Carrier
comes to second after like 5 minutes, but im not sure. Oversizing is
common.

 

[yourname]

Hello,
Sorry, I forgot to mention that it will be a 100,000 BTU unit.
The load calculation was done (but not in writing). The existing
furnace is 80,000 BTUs. The salesperson mentioned that for our house
(2700 sq.ft) the 80,000 BTU unit will suffice but it would be better to
go to the next higher BTU unit. The price differential between 80,000
and 100,000 is only around $200.

Now Ottowa may get cold, but unless you have had problems with your
heater not keeping up, you do NOT need a bigger furnace. The guy is not
up do date, to be polite. A larger furnace is always, always, less
efficient when its output is not needed. As a matter of fact, if they
are quoting input btu's, you could get by with a smaller furnace,
although I don't think that would be wise in Canada, unless you are
counting on Global Warming..

With furnaces bigger is not better. Get a real heat load calc done.

 

[kids]

Last year Carrier Infinity 2 stage VS DC motor furnace installed by Direct
Energy cost 4100CA$. + new Aprilair 600 humidifier 250$ installed. + GST
Plus 300$ Endbridge rebate. Plus expecting more rebates as I did home
efficiency audit before installing furnace, and submitted results just now.
If you go with DirectEnergy, you have to pray that they will send you a good
crew (they have many, and some of them have no clue what they are doing).
My old furnace was 120BTU, new is 100BTU - more than enough for my 3700sq
feet home + basement.
A year ago I was quoted difference in price between 100,000BTU furnace and
120,000BTU furnace around 75$.

 

[Bubba]

Hello,
Sorry, I forgot to mention that it will be a 100,000 BTU unit.
The load calculation was done (but not in writing). The existing
furnace is 80,000 BTUs. The salesperson mentioned that for our house
(2700 sq.ft) the 80,000 BTU unit will suffice but it would be better to
go to the next higher BTU unit. The price differential between 80,000
and 100,000 is only around $200.

You need to run as fast as you can from this idiot company. Upsize the
furnace? Ask for the load calcs on paper and have him (in detail)
explain why he wants to upsize it. It might be fun to watch the
entertainment. Go find a real company that knows what the hell they
are doing. This guy wouldnt know a load calculation on your home if it
hit him on the head. Keep in mind. Load calcs take time done
correctly. If you want one from me, it AINT free. It is included after
a signed contract and deposit is paid. I dont do load calcs so the
customer can hand over my work to his el cheapo bidder.
Bubba

 

[mm]

Why in the world would you want to go to a larger size??
Was the old furnace not keeping up?
Are you adding on to the house?
You said the old furnace was twenty years old, was it a 90% furnace?
If it was an 80% and was heating the house well, you could probably go
SMALLER!!

Is that really true?? Say his old one was 80% When his old one was
rated at 80000 wasn't that AFTER they deducted the 20% loss of
heating power.

Don't they rate the furnace on output and not on how much fuel they
burn? I have no experience with this, but that's what I would do.

I'm sure they assume the furance is clean and well adjusted when they
rate it at 80,000, but I don't think they would rate it at anything
other than 80% efficent if that is what it was.

(Or maybe they don't assume anything Perhaps they rate the furnace by
measuring it's output???. Again, I don't know. This is a question.)

You do not want to over size a furnace. For the best in fuel efficiency you
want the furnace to size the furnace to run constantly at the coldest days
of the year. Over sizing the furnace will cause shorter run times and higher
gas bills.
Here in North Dakota we take out high BTU furnaces all the time and install
smaller units. .One in particular we took out a 100,000 BTU Lenox and put in
a 60,000 BTU Ruud mod furnace and it heats the house fine. I just replaced
the furnace in my dad's house and put in a 75,000 BTU, 2400 square foot
home. In my home I removed a 80,000 BTU and put in a 60,000 BTU Ruud mod. I
would have gone smaller yet, but Ruud does not build a mod smaller than the
60,000 BTU.
Greg

Remove NOPSAM to email me. Please let
me know if you have posted also.

 

[mm]

If he didnt show you the load calc I bet he didn`t do one. I don`t think
you can do it without writing it out, and you should demand a copy. If
80000 worked at your coldest days keeping you at 70f without running
24x7 then 100000 is much more than you need or want An 80000 btu unit ,
your old unit, say its 80% efficient put out 64000 btu, but it may be

Really? Then I guess I would be wrong. Sorry.

much less, 60% efficient, poorly sized ducts, dirty heat exchanger, AC
coil, burner not running right etc etc. so it could be 48000 or less
output for example, mine was 50%. An 80000 btu infinity at 94.1% actual
[not 96] is 49000 on low fire and 75000 high fire btu, so depending on
what your unit really outputs and an honest load calc in writing, an
80000 infinity could be way oversized since it is more efficient. A
100000 infinity is 94.1% efficient not 96, outputs 94000 high 61000 low
fire btu. Oversize and you won`t be as comfortable if you consider it
goes to high fire after a few minutes in standard settings, it will heat
you faster unevenly. I went from 100000 btu to 47-74000, finally I got a
written load calc it was 50000 btu, I heat a bit uneven and am oversized
as I never need my second stage even at -20f with 30 mph winds. My
second stage is good for when I come home from set back temps. But I
will go smaller on my next unit soon. You need to learn more on when the
second stage is used, 1st stage should be lower for milder days with
second needed only when it can`t keep up, unfortunatly I think Carrier
comes to second after like 5 minutes, but im not sure. Oversizing is
common.

Remove NOPSAM to email me. Please let
me know if you have posted also.

 

[mm]

Now Ottowa may get cold, but unless you have had problems with your
heater not keeping up, you do NOT need a bigger furnace. The guy is not
up do date, to be polite. A larger furnace is always, always, less
efficient when its output is not needed. As a matter of fact, if they
are quoting input btu's, you could get by with a smaller furnace,

So they could be quoting either input or output?

When I said "Sorry" I thought one person had agreed with m Ransley,
but both posts were from him, so it only counts as one. :~)

although I don't think that would be wise in Canada, unless you are
counting on Global Warming..

With furnaces bigger is not better. Get a real heat load calc done.

Remove NOPSAM to email me. Please let
me know if you have posted also.

 

[m Ransley]

mm yes they are discussed on input btu, which was great when everything
was 80%

 

[mm]

mm yes they are discussed on input btu, which was great when everything
was 80%

Thanks for setting me straight, you and Greg. I didn't want to
confuse anyone and I hope I haven't.

I'm very glad to get this straight myself because I'm going to need a
new furnace myself someday, and yet I can't get myself to start
shopping as long as the current one works. Yes, I'll regret this when
the time comes, but at least now I won't waste one cycle of shopping
by confusing what the btu rating is for.

Yes, I can see how that would be just fine when everything was 80%.

but now that I know, it's not much harder to multiply the input and
multiply by the percentage.




Remove NOPSAM to email me. Please let
me know if you have posted also.

 

[yossarian]

I am also looking to install a furnace, as well as new A/C unit.

I have received quotes to install a new furnace and A/C unit at our
house and wanted to get a sanity check on the price.

The load calc indicates a need for a 120,000 BTU unit and a 4 ton A/C.
The units would replace a 120,000 BTU that was original to the house
(1982) and a 3 1/2 ton A/C that was also original to the house
(1982). Since the house was built, there is an additional 300 sf or
so, with a total of almost 3,300 sf of space.

There is a fair amount of work to be done in connection with any
installs, including a lot of venting/piping for the furnace and the
A/C, as well as lining our chimney to handle only the hot water
heater. In addition, we will certainly require some damper
adjustments.

We have been quoted $6,500 for an install of a Carrier 58 MVP 120 and
$6,300 for an install of a Carrier 38 TDB (16 SEER).

These prices seem high, but they are actually lower than pricing we
received on comparable (equivalent?) Bryant equipment.

 

[Dr. Hardcrab]

We have been quoted $6,500 for an install of a Carrier 58 MVP 120 and
$6,300 for an install of a Carrier 38 TDB (16 SEER).

Never heard of a TDB (16 SEER) model before.....

 

[yossarian]

Dr. Hardcrabwrote

We have been quoted $6,500 for an install of a Carrier 58 MVP 12 an
$6,300 for an install of a Carrier 38 TDB (16 SEER)

Never heard of a TDB (16 SEER) model before.....[/quote:29fb286a6a

That is what I am seeing on a rebate form I have. It is described a
up to 18 SEER, but I believe at 4 tons it is 16 SEER

 

[CBHVAC]

Never heard of a TDB (16 SEER) model before.....

If its the one Im thinking of, they were only sold in Mexico up till
recently.
Its the southern version of a YDB unit.
Cant wait till all those start falling out of warranty..LOL

 

[Dr. Hardcrab]

If its the one Im thinking of, they were only sold in Mexico up till
recently.
Its the southern version of a YDB unit.
Cant wait till all those start falling out of warranty..LOL

Hey! It's a Carrier, not a York!!!

;-]

 

[CBHVAC]

If its the one Im thinking of, they were only sold in Mexico up till
recently.
Its the southern version of a YDB unit.
Cant wait till all those start falling out of warranty..LOL

Hey! It's a Carrier, not a York!!!

;-]

HAr HAr.

Have ya seen the new side covers? Got a UNC one on the site.

 

[yossarian]

CBHVACwrote

"yossarian" <[email protected]> wrot

We have been quoted $6,500 for an install of a Carrier 58 MVP 12 an
$6,300 for an install of a Carrier 38 TDB (16 SEER)

Never heard of a TDB (16 SEER) model before....

If its the one Im thinking of, they were only sold in Mexico up till
recently
Its the southern version of a YDB unit
Cant wait till all those start falling out of warranty..LO

[/quote:ba9dc7e01e

I believe the YDB is a heat pump. The TDB is a central a/c unit