Frequent internet disconnections


J

john worcester

Our BT telphone line comes into our hallway by the front door and travels
across the hallway and then through the wall to a junction box in our front
room. This is where our desk top computer is.

The junction box is on the east wall in the front room, but the computer is
by the west wall and is joined by about ten metres of telephone extension
cable which runs around the wall. The splitter (DSL filter) is plugged in at
the junction box end, not the modem end.

The internet connection keeps dropping down, but comes back up readily
enough if i use the on/off switch on the back of the netgear DGN2200 modem
router. And sometimes just reconnects by itself after a few minutes.

After spending time with netgear technical helpline, they want to try the
connection by moving the pc next to the junction box and so eliminate the 10
metre extension cable. Because its a small room and because of the layout,
i am loath to move the computer to that side of the room, if at all
possible.

Is it at all likely that this 10 metre extension cable would be causing
these disconnections? They seem to happen once every two or three days. Our
house is a semi, is there anything that our neighbour might be doing to
cause a disconnection? Someone has suggested that it would be better to move
the modem close to the junction box and then buy a 10 metre LAN cable to
connect to the computer. Would this be a good idea?

Grateful for any suggestions, thanks.
 
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G

G. Morgan

john said:
Is it at all likely that this 10 metre extension cable would be causing
these disconnections?
Yes.

Run a new cable (CAT5/6) to the demark (when BT cabling stops and your
premise wiring begins).

Also, use a whole-house DSL filter and use one pair for non-filtered
data. Hook the other pair to your phones.
 
W

Whiskers

["Followup-To:" header set to 24hoursupport.helpdesk.]
Our BT telphone line comes into our hallway by the front door and travels
across the hallway and then through the wall to a junction box in our front
room. This is where our desk top computer is.

The junction box is on the east wall in the front room, but the computer is
by the west wall and is joined by about ten metres of telephone extension
cable which runs around the wall.
Even if the phone extension wire is 'shielded' it will be prone to
picking up interference from any electrical appliance in the vicinity.
The splitter (DSL filter) is plugged in at
the junction box end, not the modem end.
That's OK. What else is using the phone line? (Phone, fax, answering
machine, ...).
The internet connection keeps dropping down, but comes back up readily
enough if i use the on/off switch on the back of the netgear DGN2200 modem
router. And sometimes just reconnects by itself after a few minutes.
There may be a fault on the telephone line between your house and the
exchange, or at the exchange, or on the ISP's DSL system. You need to
eliminate any possibility of a fault inside your house, though, before
calling out the telco or ISP engineers - they'll charge a lot if they
find the fault is in your equipment not theirs, and probably not be
able to fix it either.
After spending time with netgear technical helpline, they want to try the
connection by moving the pc next to the junction box and so eliminate the 10
metre extension cable. Because its a small room and because of the layout,
i am loath to move the computer to that side of the room, if at all
possible.

Is it at all likely that this 10 metre extension cable would be causing
these disconnections? They seem to happen once every two or three days. Our
house is a semi, is there anything that our neighbour might be doing to
cause a disconnection? Someone has suggested that it would be better to move
the modem close to the junction box and then buy a 10 metre LAN cable to
connect to the computer. Would this be a good idea?

Grateful for any suggestions, thanks.
I'd recommend putting the DSL 'modem' as close as possible to the
'master' phone socket. Ethernet LAN cable is much better at carrying
data signals than most indoor phone extension leads are.

As DSL filters are relatively cheap, and they can go wrong, it's worth
trying a new one to see if that helps. More expensive DSL filters may
work better and for longer - and look nicer too.

Modems and routers can go wrong too, and I've noticed that some units
work better than others with a particular internet connection or ISP.

BT sell (or give away) a gadget they currently call "the BT Broadband
Accelerator"
<http://bt.custhelp.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/13176/c/346> which can
sometimes improve DSL performance by filtering out some interference
from the (usually redundent these days) bell wire on hard-wired
extension circuits.

The Wikipedia article looks informative
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_telephone_sockets>.
 
§

§ñühwö£f

john said:
Our BT telphone line comes into our hallway by the front door and travels
across the hallway and then through the wall to a junction box in our front
room. This is where our desk top computer is.

The junction box is on the east wall in the front room, but the computer is
by the west wall and is joined by about ten metres of telephone extension
cable which runs around the wall. The splitter (DSL filter) is plugged in at
the junction box end, not the modem end.

The internet connection keeps dropping down, but comes back up readily
enough if i use the on/off switch on the back of the netgear DGN2200 modem
router. And sometimes just reconnects by itself after a few minutes.

After spending time with netgear technical helpline, they want to try the
connection by moving the pc next to the junction box and so eliminate the 10
metre extension cable. Because its a small room and because of the layout,
i am loath to move the computer to that side of the room, if at all
possible.

Is it at all likely that this 10 metre extension cable would be causing
these disconnections? They seem to happen once every two or three days. Our
house is a semi, is there anything that our neighbour might be doing to
cause a disconnection? Someone has suggested that it would be better to move
the modem close to the junction box and then buy a 10 metre LAN cable to
connect to the computer. Would this be a good idea?

Grateful for any suggestions, thanks.
Sure. Also check the modems internal webpage and look under the settings
for the modems logfile. It will tell you something about why the
connection is dropping. Line noise is usually the culprit though in
cases like yours.

--
http://www.privacySOS.org | www.extinctioncrisis.org
www.snuhwolf.9f.com|www.savewolves.org
_____ ____ ____ __ /\_/\ __ _ ______ _____
/ __/ |/ / / / / // // . . \\ \ |\ | / __ \ \ \ __\
_\ \/ / /_/ / _ / \ / \ \| \| \ \_\ \ \__\ _\
/___/_/|_/\____/_//_/ \[email protected]_/ \__|\__|\____/\____\_\
 
B

Brian Gaff

Anything that cuts down the length of the telephone cable and number of
connectors is a good thing in these sort of connections as adsl is really a
bit of a bodge at the best of times.
However, does your telephone line outside run overhead or underground?

Brian
 
W

Woody

You would be better to ask this at uk.telecom.broadband where you
will get good help from people who really do understand what they
are talking about. I have taken the liberty of cross-posting it
for you.
 
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R

Roger Mills

What sort of "junction box" are you talking about - is it a BT-type
master socket and, if so, does it have a removable faceplate? Are there
any other phone extensions wired off it? What is the construction of the
extension cable, and what sort of plugs does it have at each end?

Is there any correlation between these disconnections and voice calls
being made on the telephone?

Answers to those questions will help us to understand the possible
issues better.

Having said that, a disconnect every 2 or 3 days is not particularly
unusual - and may have nothing to do with your setup.
--
Cheers,
Roger
____________
Please reply to Newsgroup. Whilst email address is valid, it is seldom
checked.
 
G

Graham.

What sort of "junction box" are you talking about - is it a BT-type
master socket and, if so, does it have a removable faceplate? Are there
any other phone extensions wired off it? What is the construction of the
extension cable, and what sort of plugs does it have at each end?

Is there any correlation between these disconnections and voice calls
being made on the telephone?

Answers to those questions will help us to understand the possible
issues better.

Having said that, a disconnect every 2 or 3 days is not particularly
unusual - and may have nothing to do with your setup.
For some reason I am not seeing your OP in utb but fortunately Roger
quoted it intact.

The questions he asks are what I would ask. In particular can you be
clear what this telephone extension cable is, it sounds more like a
long RJ11-RJ11 cable than a conventional telephone extension cable.

Is your description of the wiring complete? ie no other sockets, even
if unused?
 
G

Graham J

Woody said:
You would be better to ask this at uk.telecom.broadband where you
will get good help from people who really do understand what they
are talking about. I have taken the liberty of cross-posting it
for you.
Curious - I don't see the original post (this is viewing with SeaMonkey)

However:

As others have asked, we need to know more about the junction box.

Siting the router adjacent to this junction box and connecting it to the
PC with a long Ethernet cable would be a good plan.

Please tell us the loop attenuation, SNR margin, and data rate reported
by the router. Do these figures vary - particularly the SNR margin - at
about the time the connection fails?

Please tell us the ISP - if they are any good they may be able to help
resolve the problem.
 
G

George Weston

Curious - I don't see the original post (this is viewing with SeaMonkey)

However:

As others have asked, we need to know more about the junction box.

Siting the router adjacent to this junction box and connecting it to the
PC with a long Ethernet cable would be a good plan.

Please tell us the loop attenuation, SNR margin, and data rate reported
by the router. Do these figures vary - particularly the SNR margin - at
about the time the connection fails?

Please tell us the ISP - if they are any good they may be able to help
resolve the problem.
Probably because the OP is not reading posts in uk.telecom.broadband?
Originally posted in free.uk.diy.home

George
 
R

Roger Mills

Curious - I don't see the original post (this is viewing with SeaMonkey)
That's because Woody quoted it *below* his signature - so most
newsreaders would regard it as part of the signature, and strip it off
from replies. I had a hell of a job to capture it when I replied!
--
Cheers,
Roger
____________
Please reply to Newsgroup. Whilst email address is valid, it is seldom
checked.
 
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J

j stone

Brian Gaff said:
Anything that cuts down the length of the telephone cable and number of
connectors is a good thing in these sort of connections as adsl is really
a bit of a bodge at the best of times.
However, does your telephone line outside run overhead or underground?

Brian
[/QUOTE]

====================================================================================
 
A

anyone

Just for diligence, the modem doesn't connect to the outside line through
the splitter, right?

On assumption your modem is otherwise operating normally, xDSL modems are
built to monitor signal quality and automatically adjust internal
equalization to achieve 'best' signal-to-noise, and thus 'best' bit error
rate. If signal quality falls too low, the signal is dropped.

That is -possible-, but depends on line quality, connector quality, and so
on. From your description, the more likely scenario is the extra 10m is
pushing overall SNR below a usable limit, on certain days. If you move
the modem and PC next to the junction box (no extra 10m), and still see a
problem, it ain't the extra 10m line.

Probably not. Ordinary telephone lines are 'unshielded twisted pair' and
thus subject to some level of pick-up from external radio sources. But
for ordinary residential applications all of that is largely out-of-band,
very low level, and not likely to have much effect on xDSL service.

Category-5 ("LAN cable") does return much better signal quality over much
wider bandwidth than UTP. That choice won't hurt, but may do much to fix
your problem, if the connection between (say) your residence and the
Central Office is generally in bad shape.
 
J

john worcester

Our BT telephone line comes into our hallway by the front door and travels
across the hallway and then through the wall to a junction box in our front
room. This is where our desk top computer is.

The junction box is on the east wall in the front room, but the computer is
by the west wall and is joined by about ten metres of telephone extension
cable which runs around the wall. The splitter (DSL filter) is plugged in at
the junction box end, not the modem end.

The internet connection keeps dropping down, but comes back up readily
enough if i use the on/off switch on the back of the netgear DGN2200 modem
router. And sometimes just reconnects by itself after a few minutes.

After spending time with netgear technical helpline, they want to try the
connection by moving the pc next to the junction box and so eliminate the 10
metre extension cable. Because its a small room and because of the layout,
i am loath to move the computer to that side of the room, if at all
possible.

Is it at all likely that this 10 metre extension cable would be causing
these disconnections? They seem to happen once every two or three days. Our
house is a semi, is there anything that our neighbour might be doing to
cause a disconnection? Someone has suggested that it would be better to move
the modem close to the junction box and then buy a 10 metre LAN cable to
connect to the computer. Would this be a good idea?

Grateful for any suggestions, thanks.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Roger Mills said:
That's because Woody quoted it *below* his signature - so most newsreaders
would regard it as part of the signature, and strip it off from replies. I
had a hell of a job to capture it when I replied!
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I changed the telephone extension lead as advised and it is now definitely
better. I do have one BT extension phone socket ending up in the kitchen,
but just cannot find where the wires to it come from. So for the moment will
leave it in place.

I still get a drop off every couple of days or some, but as someone has
suggested to me this could be kind of normal?

Was just looking at the BT accelerator (as advised since I have this
additional extension phone socket )on the BT website and stone me if they
didn't ring up at that very moment asking would I like to sign up for their
optical cable connection broadband service. They have my details...could
they know what I'm doing on their site, I ask myself?

Going optical would mean increasing my monthly payments of £14 for the 'Be'
provider to £18 with BT and he said he would *guarantee* up to 40 Mbytes.
Having just forked out for a new netgear modem router I'm not sure about all
this.

My son downloads the occasional film but apart from that I only surf and
email, so would all the extra palaver be worth it I ask my self? And I dot
know if I could connect the optical cable to the other computers in the
house?

Life's not easy not knowing much. Thanks to all for the help. The new
Ethernet cable has made a big difference.
 
T

The Natural Philosopher

john said:
Our BT telephone line comes into our hallway by the front door and travels
across the hallway and then through the wall to a junction box in our front
room. This is where our desk top computer is.

The junction box is on the east wall in the front room, but the computer is
by the west wall and is joined by about ten metres of telephone extension
cable which runs around the wall. The splitter (DSL filter) is plugged in at
the junction box end, not the modem end.

The internet connection keeps dropping down, but comes back up readily
enough if i use the on/off switch on the back of the netgear DGN2200 modem
router. And sometimes just reconnects by itself after a few minutes.

After spending time with netgear technical helpline, they want to try the
connection by moving the pc next to the junction box and so eliminate the 10
metre extension cable. Because its a small room and because of the layout,
i am loath to move the computer to that side of the room, if at all
possible.
throw the netgear in the bin and get a new router.

I had two that were 'given' to me, Both did exactly that.

Both were possibly ex thunderstorm...


Netgears work well enough when they work, but of all the routers I have
set up/played with they are the ones that always seem to fail or go flaky.
Is it at all likely that this 10 metre extension cable would be causing
these disconnections?
No.

They seem to happen once every two or three days.

Sometimes I get several disconnects in a day, but the key thing here is
that your router is not resynching automatically. It should. If it needs
a cold reboot it is essentially fucked.

Our
house is a semi, is there anything that our neighbour might be doing to
cause a disconnection? Someone has suggested that it would be better to move
the modem close to the junction box and then buy a 10 metre LAN cable to
connect to the computer. Would this be a good idea?
Its not a bad idea.

But I still think the router is borked,.
 
G

Graham J

john said:
Our BT telephone line comes into our hallway by the front door and travels
across the hallway and then through the wall to a junction box in our front
room. This is where our desk top computer is.

The junction box is on the east wall in the front room, but the computer is
by the west wall and is joined by about ten metres of telephone extension
cable which runs around the wall. The splitter (DSL filter) is plugged in at
the junction box end, not the modem end.

The internet connection keeps dropping down, but comes back up readily
enough if i use the on/off switch on the back of the netgear DGN2200 modem
router. And sometimes just reconnects by itself after a few minutes.

After spending time with netgear technical helpline, they want to try the
connection by moving the pc next to the junction box and so eliminate the 10
metre extension cable. Because its a small room and because of the layout,
i am loath to move the computer to that side of the room, if at all
possible.

Is it at all likely that this 10 metre extension cable would be causing
these disconnections? They seem to happen once every two or three days. Our
house is a semi, is there anything that our neighbour might be doing to
cause a disconnection? Someone has suggested that it would be better to move
the modem close to the junction box and then buy a 10 metre LAN cable to
connect to the computer. Would this be a good idea?

Grateful for any suggestions, thanks.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I changed the telephone extension lead as advised and it is now definitely
better. I do have one BT extension phone socket ending up in the kitchen,
but just cannot find where the wires to it come from. So for the moment will
leave it in place.

I still get a drop off every couple of days or some, but as someone has
suggested to me this could be kind of normal?

Was just looking at the BT accelerator (as advised since I have this
additional extension phone socket )on the BT website and stone me if they
didn't ring up at that very moment asking would I like to sign up for their
optical cable connection broadband service. They have my details...could
they know what I'm doing on their site, I ask myself?

Going optical would mean increasing my monthly payments of £14 for the 'Be'
provider to £18 with BT and he said he would *guarantee* up to 40 Mbytes.
Having just forked out for a new netgear modem router I'm not sure about all
this.

My son downloads the occasional film but apart from that I only surf and
email, so would all the extra palaver be worth it I ask my self? And I dot
know if I could connect the optical cable to the other computers in the
house?

Life's not easy not knowing much. Thanks to all for the help. The new
Ethernet cable has made a big difference.
Your description isn't very useful.

I suggest:

1) Fit a faceplate microfilter to the master socket, such as:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Solwise-ADS...2?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1344370527&sr=1-2

Also shown at: http://www.solwise.co.uk/adsl_splitters-faceplates.htm
the part number: ADSL-NTEFACE-SOL

This of course begs the question of exactly where the master socket is,
and how the extension wiring to the kitchen is achieved.

2) Locate the router near to the mster socket, and connect it using the
short cable supplied with it to the "ADSL" socket on the faceplate
microfilter.

3) Connect the router to your computer using a convenient length of
Ethernet cable.

If you see a disconnection every couple of days this would be entirely
normal for an ADSL service provided by BT. If you migrate to a
professional ISP you should only expect disconnections caused by nearby
lightning strikes during a thunderstorm. An ISP such as Zen Internet
should be able to improve the reliability. If you choose Andrews &
Arnold you should be able to ring them about every disconnection as it
occurs and ask them why it happened.
 
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A

anyone

On Tue, 07 Aug 2012 18:33:24 +0100, john worcester wrote:

[...]
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I changed the telephone extension lead as advised and it is now
definitely better. I do have one BT extension phone socket ending up in
the kitchen,
but just cannot find where the wires to it come from. So for the moment
will leave it in place.

I still get a drop off every couple of days or some, but as someone has
suggested to me this could be kind of normal?
No, 'normal' is as you'd expect, no drop-outs, apart from events outside
their control -- storm, power outage, failure-to-pay, so on...
Going optical would mean increasing my monthly payments of £14 for the
'Be' provider to £18 with BT and he said he would *guarantee* up to 40
Mbytes.
"Bytes" or "bits"? It's usually the latter, usually per-second.
Having just forked out for a new netgear modem router I'm not sure about
all this.

My son downloads the occasional film but apart from that I only surf and
email, so would all the extra palaver be worth it I ask my self? And I
dot know if I could connect the optical cable to the other computers in
the house?
It's not likely you'd need to worry. Commonly, there are two possible
scenarios, fiber-to-remote-terminal and fiber-to-the-curb. The first
still has Unshielded Twisted Pair to the house (mentioned by someone
else); the second has fiber to a point either on the building or very
close. For the first you still use your xDSL modem. For the second,
you'll need more details -- you -may- need new hardware or the ISP will
provide it. I'd bet it's the latter.
 
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§

§ñühwö£f

David said:
I had similar problems with a router when I first used ADSL. It was
cured by placing a spike suppressor on the power supply to the router. I
think the most likely culprit in my case would have been the fridge
thermostat turning on and off. Is the fridge or freezer on the same
mains ring as the router?

The spike suppressor was just a large plug with some electronics in. (A
capacitor I think). There are things on the market today called surge
suppressors, whether they are the same, better, or worse I don't know.
Heat is another big issue. Make sure the unit is getting enough air
circulation. I put mine up on little blocks to improve airflow.


--
http://www.privacySOS.org | www.extinctioncrisis.org
www.snuhwolf.9f.com|www.savewolves.org
_____ ____ ____ __ /\_/\ __ _ ______ _____
/ __/ |/ / / / / // // . . \\ \ |\ | / __ \ \ \ __\
_\ \/ / /_/ / _ / \ / \ \| \| \ \_\ \ \__\ _\
/___/_/|_/\____/_//_/ \[email protected]_/ \__|\__|\____/\____\_\
 

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