Exterior paintwork


T

tim.....

Hi,

I'm about to move into (buy) a recent build (2009) flat and the exterior
wooden paintwork is in flipping appalling condition, in some places having
completely weathered away back to bare wood.

Where there is still a "good" finish on the paintwork it is not very glossy
so I'm guessing that it was a water based paint.

Is this standard for exteriors nowadays or was that a mistake (aka cost
cutting) by the builder? If it is standard is there any way to improve on
it?

It is due for re-painting next year and I want to be pro-active in making
sure that whatever mistake that the original builder made is not repeated by
the management committee when they specify the re-paint, in the aim of
further cost cutting. The fixed costs of scaffolding etc are going to make
the costs of using better paint irrelevant and as there are 100 flats in
total the waiting time between coats is not going to be an issue either.

Any advice appreciated as I want to be prepared for this discussion when it
occurs at the next MC meeting.

TIA

tim
 
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H

harryagain

tim..... said:
Hi,

I'm about to move into (buy) a recent build (2009) flat and the exterior
wooden paintwork is in flipping appalling condition, in some places having
completely weathered away back to bare wood.

Where there is still a "good" finish on the paintwork it is not very
glossy so I'm guessing that it was a water based paint.

Is this standard for exteriors nowadays or was that a mistake (aka cost
cutting) by the builder? If it is standard is there any way to improve on
it?

It is due for re-painting next year and I want to be pro-active in making
sure that whatever mistake that the original builder made is not repeated
by the management committee when they specify the re-paint, in the aim of
further cost cutting. The fixed costs of scaffolding etc are going to
make the costs of using better paint irrelevant and as there are 100 flats
in total the waiting time between coats is not going to be an issue
either.

Any advice appreciated as I want to be prepared for this discussion when
it occurs at the next MC meeting.

TIA

All the paint these days is shit. Water based.
Get rid of all the wood and use uPVC.
Stainless steel nails etc
Fit and forget.
 
B

Bill

harryagain said:
Get rid of all the wood and use uPVC.
Stainless steel nails etc
Fit and forget.
Trouble is, having used my daughter's uPVC front door every day since
she needed to have a cat fed, and used other similar doors and windows,
for me it would be fit and remember.
 
L

Lobster

Is this standard for exteriors nowadays or was that a mistake (aka cost
cutting) by the builder? If it is standard is there any way to improve
on it?
I think in the case of the builder (?) who did our extension some years
ago (and went bust before completion) the standard was 1 coat of gloss
on top of bare wood. Lasted several weeks in fact IIRC
 
S

stuart noble

not within my gift!

tim
The original paint was probably some form of microporous stuff and this
is often what happens to it after a couple of years.
If the exposed wood is now silver grey, ultra violet will have taken its
toll and it will never take a coat of paint properly again. The solution
on a small scale is to use a two part wood hardener, after which any
paint should last for 20 years. How feasible that is on a large project
I'm not sure
 
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P

Phil L

harryagain said:
All the paint these days is shit. Water based.
not true, most gloos and undercoat is oil based - you can get water based
versions but these are only usually used by tradesmen who want to coat
something every 2 hours, IE prime, undercoat, gloss, gloss inside a day
Get rid of all the wood and use uPVC.
Stainless steel nails etc
Fit and forget.
It's not up to him, he has to go to a committee, who have a hundred flats to
do.

if it were mine, I'd sand, prime, undercoat, light sand, undercoat, then two
coats of gloss.
I'd request different colours for each coat EG: the primer (pink), then
white undercoat, grey undercoat, dark grey gloss, black gloss - this way
there's less chance of sections getting bumped (leaving a few coats off with
the excuse that it's 'too hot')
 
S

stuart noble

Hm, well I'm not yet in residence to check, but I think that the exposed
wood is silver gray ;-(

So what is the professional status of the person who I need to convince
the committee that they need to go to this effort. They aren't going to
take much notice of me telling them that a man on the internet told me ...

Of course, whether it is practical depends upon how much it costs
compared with what the unknowledgeable person would say, which is "why
don't we just re-paint more frequently" to which my response will be
"surely that will be more expensive than ripping out and replacing with
plastic". But I just know that some "plastic window hater" will argue
against that, trotting out all the old lines about "they don't look very
nice because they turn yellow in the sun " (something that they haven't
done for at least 30 years) etc etc.

thanks

tim

The principle with wood hardener is that it effectively converts the
wood fibres to plastic and produces a virtually non-absorbent surface.
This allows the paint to form a film without the vital carrier/solvent
getting sucked into the wood. I would go as far as to say it doesn't
then matter how good the paint is.
Basically it's just an extra coat with preferably a few hours for it to
cure properly. The resin can be prepared to cure in any time span you
want but you would need to consult a pukka GRP supplier.
All this is based on personal experience, nothing more :)
 
R

Rednadnerb

Hi Stuart
I am keen to know more. Are you suggesting painting bare wood with grp resin or epoxy resin? or are there wood hardener proprietary products available?
I have seen products in small cans that claim to deal with wood rot but thought they were snake oil.
I also read here that someone recommend water based diamond hard varnish as a wood primer. Does that sound like a good idea?

Regards

Brendan.
 
S

stuart noble

Hi Stuart I am keen to know more. Are you suggesting painting bare
wood with grp resin or epoxy resin? or are there wood hardener
proprietary products available? I have seen products in small cans
that claim to deal with wood rot but thought they were snake oil. I
also read here that someone recommend water based diamond hard
varnish as a wood primer. Does that sound like a good idea?

Regards

Brendan.
Yes, a coat of polyester resin. The Ronseal product works fine but is
expensive for what it is. The viscosity of a normal lay up resin can be
reduced with styrene and, unlike other solvents, this forms a solid when
cured, so you lose nothing by evaporation. A GRP supplier might even
stock a low viscosity resin that could be used as is.

Any coating where there is evaporation of solvents (including water)
suffers the same problems as paint, and wouldn't make an effective
hardener. However wonderful the varnish, it cannot cure properly when
half the ingredients it needs to form a film have been absorbed into the
surface.
 
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A

Andrew Gabriel

At the very least specify the use of exterior paint, something like
Sandtex or Sadolin, which are guaranteed to last for 10 years. I
should add that my Sadolin-painted fascias only lasted five years -
now replaced with uPVC - but I know someone who found it very
satisfactory.
(I reckon there's a lot of external decorating done with internal
paints.)
I started doing the facias over 10 years ago, and only finished
2 years ago. (Tackled each run when I had time or needed to get
to that area for some other reason). I fitted new timber in the
process (couldn't be bothered with trying to fix and prepare what
was already there). Bought the timber and left it to dry for many
weeks before use (and discarded over half of it which warped).

Cut to size and temporarily fix in place, to test the fit.
Take down again, and fully coat with rot proofer.
Aluminium primer all over.
Dulux Weathershield undercoat all over.
Dulux Weathershield topcoat all over except the board backs.

I forget know how many coats, but I think it was at least two
undercoat and two topcoat.

When I finally finished the last part (high level at the front
which I did from scaffolding), I took down the first facias I
had done some 8+ years before to clean them. They only needed
a wipe with a wet cloth to look as good as new again - no aging
of the paint finish could be seen.

However, it was not just a question of doing the facias. I had
also replaced the bottom layer of felt, some cracked tiles, and
fitted felt support trays and new guttering, thus fixing some
areas where water had been running down the facias.
 

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