Dodgy British Gas??


A

alexbartman

Mother in Law had a visit from BG 3* cover people....

Her radiators upstairs are getting hot even though the CH is mos
certainly off. Hw is on for a couple of hours in the AM and PM.

I was there for their visit - but they told her she urgently needs
system flush and something about an "anti-gravity" valve........and th
cost for the "repair"........£599 +VAT.

I had BG telling me I needed a system flush - but I did it myself afte
hiring the necessary equipment for £100. Do the experts amongst yo
agree that hot radiators upstairs is down to this - sounds fishy to m
(but I really am not an expert!!!!)

Grateful for some advice pleas
 
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Z

zikkimalambo

alexbartman said:
Mother in Law had a visit from BG 3* cover people....

Her radiators upstairs are getting hot even though the CH is most
certainly off. Hw is on for a couple of hours in the AM and PM.

I was there for their visit - but they told her she urgently needs a
system flush and something about an "anti-gravity" valve........and the
cost for the "repair"........£599 +VAT.
<Snip>

Does she have a service contract with them? If so, why are they trying
to charge her? Does payment for one of these contracts only entitle
you to a visit from salesmen these days?

Either way, the anti gravity valve sounds like snake oil to me. If the
system didn't need one before (unless they are saying it needs
replacing) it surely doesn't need one now.
 
D

Dave Plowman (News)

Mother in Law had a visit from BG 3* cover people....
Her radiators upstairs are getting hot even though the CH is most
certainly off. Hw is on for a couple of hours in the AM and PM.
I was there for their visit - but they told her she urgently needs a
system flush and something about an "anti-gravity" valve........and the
cost for the "repair"........£599 +VAT.
Did the system once work correctly? If so, BG should repair the fault. If
she's just moved in and it's a new service contract I doubt they'll
correct a poor installation for free.
 
D

daddyfreddy

alexbartman said:
Mother in Law had a visit from BG 3* cover people....

Her radiators upstairs are getting hot even though the CH is most
certainly off. Hw is on for a couple of hours in the AM and PM.

I was there for their visit - but they told her she urgently needs a
system flush and something about an "anti-gravity" valve........and the
cost for the "repair"........£599 +VAT.

I had BG telling me I needed a system flush - but I did it myself after
hiring the necessary equipment for £100. Do the experts amongst you
agree that hot radiators upstairs is down to this - sounds fishy to me
(but I really am not an expert!!!!)
Did they explain how this anti-gravity valve will resolve the problem
of the heaters getting hot? If the heaters were not getting hot before
then the problem lies elsewhere.
 
A

airsmoothed

Did they explain how this anti-gravity valve will resolve the problem
of the heaters getting hot? If the heaters were not getting hot before
then the problem lies elsewhere.
The 'anti gravity' valve does indeed explain why the upstairs rads are
getting hot; I have exactly the same problem at home. The valve jams
open, and so hot water is fed to the rads. even when the CH pump is not
activated. I've lived with the problem for 4 years, by manually turning
the rads. off in spring & on in summer.
 
D

Dark Angel

The 'anti gravity' valve does indeed explain why the upstairs rads are
getting hot; I have exactly the same problem at home. The valve jams
open, and so hot water is fed to the rads. even when the CH pump is not
activated.
If the valve is jamming open, surely all that needs to be done is to remove
the actuator from the top of the valve and using a pair of pliers or
suitable spanner twist the valve back and forth to work the innards loose.
The actuator should be able to open and close the valve properly then!
 
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J

John

Dark Angel said:
If the valve is jamming open, surely all that needs to be done is to
remove the actuator from the top of the valve and using a pair of pliers
or suitable spanner twist the valve back and forth to work the innards
loose. The actuator should be able to open and close the valve properly
then!
A dumb check valve is the usual solution i.e. a check valve with a light
spring holding it closed. When the pump is switched on the "push" opens the
valve and the circulation operates. If there is already such a valve it
probably simply needs cleaning and a trace of silicon grease. If there never
was one then one should be fitted at a minimal cost. BG simply try to sell
their vastly inflated powerflush.
 
T

tarquinlinbin

Mother in Law had a visit from BG 3* cover people....

Her radiators upstairs are getting hot even though the CH is most
certainly off. Hw is on for a couple of hours in the AM and PM.

I was there for their visit - but they told her she urgently needs a
system flush and something about an "anti-gravity" valve........and the
cost for the "repair"........£599 +VAT.

I had BG telling me I needed a system flush - but I did it myself after
hiring the necessary equipment for £100. Do the experts amongst you
agree that hot radiators upstairs is down to this - sounds fishy to me
(but I really am not an expert!!!!)

Grateful for some advice please
the anti gravity valve is probably knackered,they just fall to bits
inside with age/wear and tear. The system flush is another matter.
Maybe it needs it-maybe it doesnt. Chances are they will drain the
system to fit the new AG valve anyway so itll get a partial
flush,albeit with no additives. I;d just have the new valve and no
flush!!



Remove antispam and add 670 after bra to email

Be a good Global citizen-CONSUME>CONFORM>OBEY

Circumcision- A crime and an abuse.
http://www.sexuallymutilatedchild.org/
 
M

Mogweed

John said:
A dumb check valve is the usual solution i.e. a check valve with a light
spring holding it closed. When the pump is switched on the "push" opens
the valve and the circulation operates. If there is already such a valve
it probably simply needs cleaning and a trace of silicon grease. If there
never was one then one should be fitted at a minimal cost. BG simply try
to sell their vastly inflated powerflush.
Why do people assume something is wrong with the installation? Our 1970's
built dormer bungalow (and those of the other neighbours and friends we have
on this estate) have central heating systems that were designed and
installed to do just that.

When the timer/controller is set to CH and HW, the pump runs and warms up
the whole house. When it is set to Hot Water Only, the pump does not run so
the downstairs rads do not get hot, but in the process of providing domestic
hot water the upstairs rads all do get hot.

This may or may not be down to dodgy design, dodgy plumbing or whatever but
it is *not* a fault - our system and 29 others just like it have run quite
happily like this since the houses were built in the 70's.

The main (only) problems we have is that all of us only have one tank up in
the loft so that if we have to drain down the system (to take off rads for
decorating or whatever) we cannot add inhibitor or any other chemicals.

Mogweed.
 
D

david lang

Mogweed said:
When the timer/controller is set to CH and HW, the pump runs and
warms up the whole house. When it is set to Hot Water Only, the pump
does not run so the downstairs rads do not get hot, but in the
process of providing domestic hot water the upstairs rads all do get
hot.
That's exactly what my system does, so we have to turn off the upstairs rads
every summer and on again in the winter.

Anyway to avoid this?

Dave
 
E

Ed Sirett

This may or may not be down to dodgy design, dodgy plumbing or whatever but
it is *not* a fault - our system and 29 others just like it have run quite
happily like this since the houses were built in the 70's.
The fact that there are 29 examples and you are content with the current
state of the system does not alter the fact that this is (and was) a
fault, IMHO. A good system can heat the water only, it also may be
arranged to heat a towel warmer as part of that, it does not heat all the
upstairs rads in hot weather.
 
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D

Dave Plowman (News)

Why do people assume something is wrong with the installation? Our
1970's built dormer bungalow (and those of the other neighbours and
friends we have on this estate) have central heating systems that were
designed and installed to do just that.
When the timer/controller is set to CH and HW, the pump runs and warms
up the whole house. When it is set to Hot Water Only, the pump does not
run so the downstairs rads do not get hot, but in the process of
providing domestic hot water the upstairs rads all do get hot.
'Gravity' circulation to the hot water with no anti gravity circulation
valve in the CH. Poor design.
This may or may not be down to dodgy design, dodgy plumbing or whatever
but it is *not* a fault - our system and 29 others just like it have
run quite happily like this since the houses were built in the 70's.
You may be happy to have part of the house getting hot when you don't need
it and wasting money, but it's down to bad design. Pure and simple.

In the '70s, fully pumped systems were common. They allow easy separate
control of heating and hot water temperatures for very little extra
installation costs.

The fact that the builder of your estate didn't realise this means nothing.
 
D

Dave Plowman (News)

That's exactly what my system does, so we have to turn off the upstairs
rads every summer and on again in the winter.
Anyway to avoid this?
Convert to a fully pumped system. This allows full control of both water
and heating temperatures while allowing the boiler to run at its most
efficient setting.
 
M

Mogweed

Dave Plowman (News) said:
You may be happy to have part of the house getting hot when you don't need
it and wasting money, but it's down to bad design. Pure and simple.
Dave Plowman (e-mail address removed) London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.
Which is exactly what I say in the top paragraph - dodgy design - but it
isn't a fault, ie, it was working ok then something happened and now it
doesn't - this unfortunate setup is the "norm" for our systems not a fault
condition.

I've never looked into the cost of converting it into a fully pumped system
as you advise in an earlier posting as I don't know what would be involved.
We just get round it by turning the entire system off during the summer
months (firing it up once a week for maybe an hour to make sure the pump
doesn't seize) and using the electric immersion heater for maybe an hour to
an hour and half, which gives us plenty hot water for the day.

Mogweed.
 
J

John

Mogweed said:
SNIP

Why do people assume something is wrong with the installation? Our 1970's
built dormer bungalow (and those of the other neighbours and friends we
have on this estate) have central heating systems that were designed and
installed to do just that.

When the timer/controller is set to CH and HW, the pump runs and warms up
the whole house. When it is set to Hot Water Only, the pump does not run
so the downstairs rads do not get hot, but in the process of providing
domestic hot water the upstairs rads all do get hot.

This may or may not be down to dodgy design, dodgy plumbing or whatever
but it is *not* a fault - our system and 29 others just like it have run
quite happily like this since the houses were built in the 70's.
Possibly so but it isn't "right" as the upstairs rads will heat up during
the summer when hot water only is wanted. The designer (if there was one) or
installer obviously didn't know how to stop thermosiphoning of hot water
through the rads. Just because its been wrong since the house was built
doesn't make it right even if you are prepared to tolerate it.
Whichever way you count the beans it is "faulty"
The main (only) problems we have is that all of us only have one tank up
in the loft so that if we have to drain down the system (to take off rads
for decorating or whatever) we cannot add inhibitor or any other
chemicals.
So you have a primatic system as well as a crap design? Ah well things can
only get better from your present starting point.
 
D

Dave Plowman (News)

Which is exactly what I say in the top paragraph - dodgy design - but it
isn't a fault, ie, it was working ok then something happened and now it
doesn't - this unfortunate setup is the "norm" for our systems not a
fault condition.
I'd still call it a system fault - ie something that needs to be fixed,
regardless of design or not. If the house was bought new, I'm surprised it
wasn't rectified under warranty. Anti-syphon valves aren't a new idea or
expensive, and could be fitted when the system is drained down for
inhibitor change or new TRVs etc.
I've never looked into the cost of converting it into a fully pumped
system as you advise in an earlier posting as I don't know what would
be involved. We just get round it by turning the entire system off
during the summer months (firing it up once a week for maybe an hour to
make sure the pump doesn't seize) and using the electric immersion
heater for maybe an hour to an hour and half, which gives us plenty hot
water for the day.
Quite an expensive solution over the years.
 
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A

airsmoothed

Dark said:
If the valve is jamming open, surely all that needs to be done is to remove
the actuator from the top of the valve and using a pair of pliers or
suitable spanner twist the valve back and forth to work the innards loose.
The actuator should be able to open and close the valve properly then!


--
Best Wishes
Simon (aka Dark Angel)
"Dark Angel's Realm of Horror" - http://www.realmofhorror.co.uk
"Realm of Horror Radio" - http://www.live365.com/stations/313834
My problem is that the valve appears to be inside the trunking running
from floor to ceiling in the downstairs loo, sod's law dictates that
the trunking was re-tiled just before the fault appreared :-((
 

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