Desperately need help: Woodstain over old Varnish won't dry!


M

Mike

13 years ago the floor was stained with a standard woodstain then
varnished with Rustin's Clear Acrylic Gloss Floor Coating;
www.rustins.co.uk/F_coat.html All was well.

About three years later the floor was recovered with Blackfriars
Polyurethane Stained Varnish. The varnish took about a week to
dry; apparently, the polyurethane reacted with the old acrylic
coating. The floor was left with that covering and has been used
daily for the past 10 years. I assumed it was dry!

However, I have just taken advice about recovering the floor and
about 12 hours ago I cleaned the floor with weak mix of
disinfectant/water, left it to fully dry then applied Rustin's
Wood Dye www.rustins.co.uk/Wooddye.html to the entire area. I
used a cloth to wipe the surplus away from areas where the old
varnish was intact but the dye did come into contact with the
entire floor surface. The areas that were bare wood have dried,
while the areas with old varnish have reacted again and now that
part of the floor is 'tacky' or sticky to the touch.

So I need advice about how to sort this by tomorrow. I have a tin
of Rustin's Clear Acrylic Gloss Floor Coating and/or a tin of
Blackfriars Polyurethane Stained Varnish, a fan heater, a clean
brush and all the shops are closed for xmas.

Is it possible to get this dry and varnished by tomorrow, if so
how and which finish should I use?

Thanks for any advice.
 
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L

L Beck

I'm no expert, but I believe when re-staining a hard wood floor you needed
to have completely removed all old varnishes, etc. As you stated, where the
wood was bare it has dried. That's the secret. You need to get all of that
off the floor, then buff or sand it good, then stain and later varnish if
desired.
 
M

Mike

L Beck wrote...
"Mike" wrote
I'm no expert, but I believe when re-staining a hard wood floor you needed
to have completely removed all old varnishes, etc. As you stated, where the
wood was bare it has dried. That's the secret. You need to get all of that
off the floor, then buff or sand it good, then stain and later varnish if
desired.
This is not practical though, there would be far too much dust
and general upheaval and I simply don't have time.
 
E

Edwin Pawlowski

This is not practical though, there would be far too much dust
and general upheaval and I simply don't have time.
Then don't bitch that you made a mess. There is a right way to do things.
Mixing chemicals will have a reaction. You might get lucky with some heat,
but there is really no way of knowing for sure until you try it. Adding
another chemical may make it better or worse. Try a small spot. Perhaps
you can wipe it up and clean off the gunk with mineral spirits, but, that is
flammable and presents a danger.

After the holidays, take the time to do it properly and you will be rewarded
in the end.
Ed
 
M

Mike G

Stain is meant to go onto wood not varnish.

What ever happens it isn't going to be accomplished by tomorrow.

My suggestion, stop trying to half ass the job, sand the floor to the wood,
and start from scratch.

If the floor is gong to be heavily walked on tomorrow use mineral spirits
and get all the stain up off the varnished parts and reconcile yourself to
the fact that it is going to look like hell until you have time to do the
job right.
 
J

JSin

Mike said:
L Beck wrote...




This is not practical though, there would be far too much dust
and general upheaval and I simply don't have time.
Well then the alternative is not going to be much better which would be
to chemically strip the whole floor sand and refinish. What you have is
a chemical reaction. The chems you have put down do not mix well and as
such are not drying properly.

I know it is not what you want to hear but the first response was
correct. As you have stated Time is against you and I do not think there
will be a solution before Xmas.

Also don't put down more finishes it is only going to make the problem
worse. As it stands the solution is sand the floor. And follow the
manufacturers instructions for the use of thier product. There is no
real quick fix for this.

--
JSin
Lost Generation Custom Tattoo
To reply Kill the .idiot
"Swing a little more on the Devil's dance floor"
-Flogging Molly
 
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G

George M. Kazaka

Mike wash it with cold water and Ivory soap,

It is and old refinishers trick
Has always worked for me
Let us know if you try it and if it works

Good Luck,
George
 
E

Eric Ryder

Yeah! and slaughter a few chickens at midnight to be certain!!
 
M

Mike

Mike G wrote...
Stain is meant to go onto wood not varnish.
What ever happens it isn't going to be accomplished by tomorrow.
My suggestion, stop trying to half ass the job, sand the floor to the wood,
and start from scratch.

If the floor is gong to be heavily walked on tomorrow use mineral spirits
and get all the stain up off the varnished parts and reconcile yourself to
the fact that it is going to look like hell until you have time to do the
job right.
I have put carpet rugs down on the vital areas and they are not
sticking to the slightly tacky areas of the surface. There is no
way I am prepared to sand the floor down to the wood, there would
be far too much dust and I quite like the worn look it has now,
it just needs to be finished.

I will take George's advice, then I'll simply wait untill it
eventually dries. When it does, I'll varnish over the lot, give
it about three coats and job's done.
 
M

Mike

George M. Kazaka wrote...
"Mike" wrote
Mike wash it with cold water and Ivory soap,

It is and old refinishers trick
Has always worked for me
Let us know if you try it and if it works
I'll try and obtain some ivory soap today and give it a try. I'll
post back here to let you know how it goes.

Thanks for the tip.
 
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L

L Beck

This is not practical though, there would be far too much dust
and general upheaval and I simply don't have time.

"Never time to do it right, but always time to do it over."

I was also hoping to have a floor done my Christmas - my bathroom floor.
When we took up the toilet part of the sub-floor and the plumbing under the
toilet was toast. There wasn't enough to even add a flange repair kit to.
We probably could have jury-rigged something to get us by, but instead we
opted to fix it all correctly. However, this is all taking time, and as a
result, not only will I not have a floor by Christmas, there won't be any
toilet in there either, because we're not reinstalling the toilet until the
new floor is down. And working all day between when we found this and
Christmas eve really cuts down our home repair time. Thank goodness for
multi-bathroom homes and porta-potties.

LB
 
M

Mike G

Well,, you know what your priorities have to be better then anyone else so
all I can do is say good luck and wish you the best for the holidays.
 
G

George M. Kazaka

Mike My apologies, I read your Post rather Hastily,
I didn't see where you put JUST stain on top of the varnish
Stain will never dry it needs a top coat which is what i thought was being
tacky and not completely drying.
When doing refinishing work and Or recoation work the top coat sometimes
does not get completely hard and stays tacky to the touch
What I mentioned happens to be a cure for it, Don't know why but it does
work,
Especially on Shellac and Varnish.
I doubt that you will not find this in the books that are written by the so
called Guros of finishing geared to the novice market.
Either way it will cause no harm to what you have.
What you need to do is get a coat of topcoat on it problem is if you are
brushing the brush will pick up the stain and cause a bigger mess than what
you have.
Best bet is to wash the stain off with Mineral spirits , Go back to Go do
not collect the 200.00 and start over again.
When Company comes blame it on the weather and after the holidays you have
to do it all over again,
But when you do Get a little Info on the proper way to do it.
Good Luck, and Merry Christmas to all, and to all goodnight,
George
 
G

George Watson

the different products you are puttng on your floor are not compatable with
each other

use paint/ vanish stripper get back to the bare wood and use only one make
type of product
 
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M

Mike

Edwin Pawlowski wrote...
Then don't bitch that you made a mess.
"bitch" ?
There is a right way to do things.
I have followed the instructions accompanying the product.
Mixing chemicals will have a reaction. You might get lucky with some heat,
but there is really no way of knowing for sure until you try it. Adding
another chemical may make it better or worse. Try a small spot.
I'm considering this once the festivities are over, tye rugs I
mentioned previously have helped temporarily.
Perhaps
you can wipe it up and clean off the gunk with mineral spirits, but, that is
flammable and presents a danger.
What danger? It's not a running river of flammable goo, it's very
*slightly* tacky varnish.
After the holidays, take the time to do it properly and you will be rewarded
in the end.
I'm not sanding it down. If a wooden floor must be sanded down
(or chemically stripped) each time the varnish is renewed, I'll
just ceramic tile it as the former is completely impractical imo.

It's supposed to be a finished attractive floor, not a full time
occupation.
 
M

Mike

JSin wrote...
There is no
real quick fix for this.
I've gathered that now, given the date and that it's still
tacky. :-(

AFA Sanding it down is concerned, I find this ridiculous. If this
measure was required every time the rest of the house needs a
lick of paint, it'd never get done.
 
E

Edwin Pawlowski

I have followed the instructions accompanying the product.
From what I read on their web page, the product is made for bare wood and
you put it over varnish or some type of finish. OK, you followd the
instructions, but used the wrong product.


What danger? It's not a running river of flammable goo, it's very
*slightly* tacky varnish.
The mineral spirits may pose a hazzard. It will give off vapors as it dries
and the vapor can ignite. Not as bad as gasoline, but still a potential
hazzard.

I'm not sanding it down. If a wooden floor must be sanded down
(or chemically stripped) each time the varnish is renewed, I'll
just ceramic tile it as the former is completely impractical imo.
Renewing the top coat of varnish is easy. Staining the already varnished
wood is a whole different story. That is what caused your problem from the
start. Perhaps a different product would work. Perhaps a urethane with a
tint will give you the finish and color you desire.

It's supposed to be a finished attractive floor, not a full time
occupation.
It will be if done right from the start. You will get many years of good
use and little effort if done properly.
Ed
 
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G

Guest

Mike said:
AFA Sanding it down is concerned, I find this ridiculous. If this
measure was required every time the rest of the house needs a
lick of paint, it'd never get done.
PAINT / STAIN .. two different animals. Paint sits ON the surface for
protection and has a colorant in it. Stain goes IN the wood, giving
the actual wood fibers color, which is then sealed in and protected with
a topcoat of varnish, shellac, etc. IN order to color the wood fibers,
they MUST be exposed, which is a condition you do not have. You have
stated that you followed the manufacturer's directions explicitly, but I
cannot ever recall seeing a can of stain that did not include in the
directions a statement along the lines of : "to be used only on clean
BARE wood".

Sounds like you have chosen the wrong product or you are misusing the
one you got.
 

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