Concrete patio -- where it meets the house


R

RogerT

A friend of mine is adding a concrete slab patio to the back of his house.
He has enough experience in pouring and finishing concrete that he is
comfortable doing the patio. But, he has a question about where the patio
meets the house. The house has a brick exterior where the patio will meet
the house, and he is wondering if he should just pour the concrete right up
to the house, or place an expansion joint along the back of the house and
pour up to that. I don't know the answer but I said I would try posting the
question here. His house is in New Jersey in case that matters in terms of
climate etc.
 
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N

Nanez

Ed Pawlowski said:
I'd think that anyone with experience would know an expansion joint
should be there. He should probably check his knowledge of base prep and
reinforcement too. All of NJ is in freezing zone and that patio will
move.
Amen!
 
R

RogerT

Ed said:
I'd think that anyone with experience would know an expansion joint
should be there. He should probably check his knowledge of base prep
and reinforcement too. All of NJ is in freezing zone and that patio
will move.
Thanks for the feedback.

I don't know what is correct, but in doing an Internet search it does seem
that more often than not people do recommend putting in the expansion joint.
I was surprised to also see a number of other options also posted on the
Internet that involved tying the patio into the foundation with rebar etc.
I don't know if that is a good idea, but it seems a little strange to me.
Also, some of the videos I see of professional contractors pouring and
finishing a patio do not show either an expansion joint at the house
interface or rebar tying the patio into the house foundation.

I do know that my friend is using stone underneath and compacting the base,
plus wire mesh, plus rebar, and will be sloping the patio 1/4 inch per foot
away from the house. And, he said that when ordering the concrete, he is
getting concrete that is called something like "fiber reinforced" (I forget
the term) and a higher strength concrete (I forget the "pounds" or whatever
it is called).

For those who may be interested, here are some of the links I found when
doing an Internet search:




http://extras.berkshireeagle.com/Nebe/pool/concrete.html



http://www.askthebuilder.com/371_A_Patio_of_Concrete_-_the_Right_Way.shtml



http://en.allexperts.com/q/Building-Homes-Extensions-2333/Concrete-patio-1.htm



http://www.homekb.com/Uwe/Forum.aspx/repair/46780/Attaching-Patio-to-House



https://advice.thisoldhouse.com/showthread.php?t=6894



http://www.dependorent-all.com/Tips and Tricks/Building a Concrete Patio.htm



http://www.renovation-headquarters.com/concrete-patio.htm .
 
H

hr(bob) hofmann

Thanks for the feedback.

I don't know what is correct, but in doing an Internet search it does seem
that more often than not people do recommend putting in the expansion joint.
I was surprised to also see a number of other options also posted on the
Internet that involved tying the patio into the foundation with rebar etc..
I don't know if that is a good idea, but it seems a little strange to me.
Also, some of the videos I see of professional contractors pouring and
finishing a patio do not show either an expansion joint at the house
interface or rebar tying the patio into the house foundation.

I do know that my friend is using stone underneath and compacting the base,
plus wire mesh, plus rebar, and will be sloping the patio 1/4 inch per foot
away from the house.  And, he said that when ordering the concrete, he is
getting concrete that is called something like "fiber reinforced" (I forget
the term) and a higher strength concrete (I forget the "pounds" or whatever
it is called).

For those who may be interested, here are some of the links I found when
doing an Internet search:


http://extras.berkshireeagle.com/Nebe/pool/concrete.html

http://www.askthebuilder.com/371_A_Patio_of_Concrete_-_the_Right_Way....

http://en.allexperts.com/q/Building-Homes-Extensions-2333/Concrete-pa...

http://www.homekb.com/Uwe/Forum.aspx/repair/46780/Attaching-Patio-to-...

https://advice.thisoldhouse.com/showthread.php?t=6894

http://www.dependorent-all.com/Tips and Tricks/Building a Con...

http://www.renovation-headquarters.com/concrete-patio.htm.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -
I am not sure if the fibre-reinforced concrete is really any better.
Our condo association in CO used the reinforced concrete for a patio,
and the new concrete cracked within 2 years even though the base was
properly compacted, etc. It may just be a selling $$ point.
 
R

RogerT

John said:
A new install should have a joint but be aware that the joint must be
maintained or water *will* get into your basement. Not to mention sloping
it away from the house. If its possible to slope the patio toward a drain
your results will be even better. We were able to connect up to a buried
4" drain intended to catch down spout water that runs along the end of the
house. Its carried about 60' away from the house along a good down slope.

In snow zones, melting snow is more of a problem than rain. Get the snow
off the patio or at least away from the foundation or it will very quickly
seep into the joint when it melts.

We poured a third layer (probably close to a foot thick by now) over an
existing 40' patio four or five years ago due to repeated moisture
problems in the basement. Unlike the other two layers it was poured
directly against the brick this time. Since then the moisture problem has
gone away and there is no sign of bowed walls. Brick over concrete block
is pretty sturdy but only a really-really thick sub base made this
practical.

From SW Pennsylvania,

John

Thanks. I passed on your information and the other feedback to my friend.
He said he will be using an expansion joint.
 
R

RogerT

John said:
A new install should have a joint but be aware that the joint must be
maintained or water *will* get into your basement. Not to mention sloping
it away from the house. If its possible to slope the patio toward a drain
your results will be even better. We were able to connect up to a buried
4" drain intended to catch down spout water that runs along the end of the
house. Its carried about 60' away from the house along a good down slope.

In snow zones, melting snow is more of a problem than rain. Get the snow
off the patio or at least away from the foundation or it will very quickly
seep into the joint when it melts.

We poured a third layer (probably close to a foot thick by now) over an
existing 40' patio four or five years ago due to repeated moisture
problems in the basement. Unlike the other two layers it was poured
directly against the brick this time. Since then the moisture problem has
gone away and there is no sign of bowed walls. Brick over concrete block
is pretty sturdy but only a really-really thick sub base made this
practical.

From SW Pennsylvania,

John

Thanks. I passed on your information and the other feedback to my friend.
He said he will be using an expansion joint.
 
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R

RogerT

John said:
A new install should have a joint but be aware that the joint must be
maintained or water *will* get into your basement. Not to mention sloping
it away from the house. If its possible to slope the patio toward a drain
your results will be even better. We were able to connect up to a buried
4" drain intended to catch down spout water that runs along the end of the
house. Its carried about 60' away from the house along a good down slope.

In snow zones, melting snow is more of a problem than rain. Get the snow
off the patio or at least away from the foundation or it will very quickly
seep into the joint when it melts.

We poured a third layer (probably close to a foot thick by now) over an
existing 40' patio four or five years ago due to repeated moisture
problems in the basement. Unlike the other two layers it was poured
directly against the brick this time. Since then the moisture problem has
gone away and there is no sign of bowed walls. Brick over concrete block
is pretty sturdy but only a really-really thick sub base made this
practical.

From SW Pennsylvania,

John

Thanks. I passed on your information and the other feedback to my friend.
He said he will be using an expansion joint.
 

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