Ceiling fan/light wiring options

[RogerT]

From an earlier post, I have a top floor (second floor) apartment where the
ceilings in the living room, 2 bedrooms, and a small hallway have now been
removed. This was after the last tenant moved out and I am doing some
improvements to the apartment before a new tenant moves in.

Now that the ceilings are out, I want to add ceiling fan/lights in the LR
and each BR, and a new hallway light and a new BR closet light. The
electrical panel is on a wall in the apartment.

I think I may want to split this up into two circuits -- one with two
ceiling fan/lights (LR and one BR) and the closet light; and the other
circuit with the other BR ceiling fan/light and the hallway light. Or, I
could just put all 3 ceiling fan/lights and the hallway light and closet
light all on one circuit. Is either of these two options okay?

Also, for wiring the ceiling fan/lights and the hallway and closet light, I
think the easiest option would be to run the power through the ceiling to
each ceiling fan/light and the hallway and closet light -- then do a 3-wire
switch loop down to each ceiling fan/light control switch and a 2-wire
switch loop down to the hallway and closet light switches. Is there any
disadvantage to doing the wiring this way?

The alternative would be to run the power to each wall switch and then do
3-wire connections up to the ceiling fan/lights etc. Any suggestions as to
which way would be easier and way would make the most sense?

Thanks.

 

[Oren]

The alternative would be to run the power to each wall switch and then do
3-wire connections up to the ceiling fan/lights etc. Any suggestions as to
which way would be easier and way would make the most sense?

You will get great advice here....

I prefer fans and lights operate on a wall switch. All my rooms in
the house have wall switches. When I built our patio cover that's what
I did. These were wiring home runs from the panel. Each fan (two) and
light has its own switch. Better than pulling chains.... Even got two
receptacles (GFCI) out of the deal.

 

[RogerT]

You will get great advice here....

I prefer fans and lights operate on a wall switch. All my rooms in
the house have wall switches. When I built our patio cover that's what
I did. These were wiring home runs from the panel. Each fan (two) and
light has its own switch. Better than pulling chains.... Even got two
receptacles (GFCI) out of the deal.

Thanks. I agree. The plan is that each ceiling fan/light will be
controlled from the wall switch, and each wall switch will have one switch
for the fan and one for the light. That is why I will be using 3-wire
instead of 2-wire between the wall switch(es) and each ceiling fan/light. I
may not have made that clear in my original post. The question for me is
about whether the 2-wire power (feed) would go to the fixture first or to
the wall switch(es) first.

 

[trader4]

Thanks.  I agree.  The plan is that each ceiling fan/light will be
controlled from the wall switch, and each wall switch will have one switch
for the fan and one for the light.  That is why I will be using 3-wire
instead of 2-wire between the wall switch(es) and each ceiling fan/light. I
may not have made that clear in my original post.  The question for me is
about whether the 2-wire power (feed) would go to the fixture first or to
the wall switch(es) first.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I don't see why you would want to run the power to
the light first. Running it to the switch box is the most
common way it's done. I'd also consider using remote
controls for the fans, as I find them easier to install and
more convenient. However, with it being a rental, the
wall switch might be a better idea.

Also keep in mind that arc fault breakers are required
for bedrooms and I believe living rooms too.

 

[RBM]

From an earlier post, I have a top floor (second floor) apartment where the
ceilings in the living room, 2 bedrooms, and a small hallway have now been
removed. This was after the last tenant moved out and I am doing some
improvements to the apartment before a new tenant moves in.

Now that the ceilings are out, I want to add ceiling fan/lights in the LR
and each BR, and a new hallway light and a new BR closet light. The
electrical panel is on a wall in the apartment.

I think I may want to split this up into two circuits -- one with two
ceiling fan/lights (LR and one BR) and the closet light; and the other
circuit with the other BR ceiling fan/light and the hallway light. Or, I
could just put all 3 ceiling fan/lights and the hallway light and closet
light all on one circuit. Is either of these two options okay?

Also, for wiring the ceiling fan/lights and the hallway and closet light, I
think the easiest option would be to run the power through the ceiling to
each ceiling fan/light and the hallway and closet light -- then do a 3-wire
switch loop down to each ceiling fan/light control switch and a 2-wire
switch loop down to the hallway and closet light switches. Is there any
disadvantage to doing the wiring this way?

The alternative would be to run the power to each wall switch and then do
3-wire connections up to the ceiling fan/lights etc. Any suggestions as to
which way would be easier and way would make the most sense?

Thanks.

You'll be fine with one 15 amp circuit. Ceiling fan boxes tend to be
small, so routing the feed through them won't be practical. You would
also need to run cables with an extra conductor to the switches as
neutrals are now required by the NEC at all switch locations. I would
use large switch boxes, daisy chain the feed between them, then run
whatever cable is necessary from each switch to it's respective light, fan.

This post may be a duplicate, as my reader is acting flaky today

 

[RBM]

I don't see why you would want to run the power to
the light first. Running it to the switch box is the most
common way it's done. I'd also consider using remote
controls for the fans, as I find them easier to install and
more convenient. However, with it being a rental, the
wall switch might be a better idea.

Also keep in mind that arc fault breakers are required
for bedrooms and I believe living rooms too.

Arc faults are required now in most "habitable" rooms.

 

[John Grabowski]

From an earlier post, I have a top floor (second floor) apartment where

You'll be fine with one 15 amp circuit. Ceiling fan boxes tend to be
small, so routing the feed through them won't be practical. You would also
need to run cables with an extra conductor to the switches as neutrals are
now required by the NEC at all switch locations. I would use large switch
boxes, daisy chain the feed between them, then run whatever cable is
necessary from each switch to it's respective light, fan.

*I agree with RBM. The 2011 National Electrical Code requires a neutral
conductor at each switch location so bringing the feed directly to each
switch box works for that. Use deep switch boxes or 4" square boxes to fit
the wires and switches comfortably inside.

 

[RogerT]

You'll be fine with one 15 amp circuit. Ceiling fan boxes tend to be
small, so routing the feed through them won't be practical. You would also
need to run cables with an extra conductor to the switches as neutrals are
now required by the NEC at all switch locations. I would use large switch
boxes, daisy chain the feed between them, then run whatever cable is
necessary from each switch to it's respective light, fan.

Thanks. I'm glad I asked the question here before doing anything. I had
forgotten that the new codes call for a neutral at the switch boxes. I'll
do what you suggested and daisy chain the feed between the switch boxes. By
"large switch boxes", I assume you mean deep boxes, right? The walls are
thick enough for deep boxes to go in, so that would be no problem. Or, is
there another type of "large switch box" that I should be using?

But, now that I think about it, I am not sure what kind of switches are out
there that would allow the ceiling fan and ceiling light to be controlled
separately from the wall switches. In the past, I just used pull chain
ceiling fan/light combos in rental units and didn't bother trying to be able
to control each fan and light separately from the wall switch. I know there
are remote control units out there, but I don't want to put them in a rental
unit since I think the tenants will end up breaking or misplacing the
remotes etc.

If I can't figure out a good wall switch setup for controlling the fan and
light separately, maybe I'll just stick with the pull chain type of ceiling
fan/lights for now. If I do that, maybe I could still run a 3-wire up from
the switch to the fan/light (for possible future use) but only use two of
those wires for now.

 

[RogerT]

*I agree with RBM. The 2011 National Electrical Code requires a neutral
conductor at each switch location so bringing the feed directly to each
switch box works for that. Use deep switch boxes or 4" square boxes to
fit the wires and switches comfortably inside.

Thanks. I'll have to look and see what type and size boxes are out there.
I like using plastic old work boxes instead of metal boxes. At all 3 of the
locations where the ceiling fan/light switches will be going there is
already a single wall switch box that controls an outlet in each room. So,
I may end up replacing them with 3-gang deep boxes or something like along
those lines. That way, I could keep the original switch wiring and add the
ceiling fan and ceiling light control switches.

 

[RBM]

Thanks. I'm glad I asked the question here before doing anything. I had
forgotten that the new codes call for a neutral at the switch boxes.
I'll do what you suggested and daisy chain the feed between the switch
boxes. By "large switch boxes", I assume you mean deep boxes, right? The
walls are thick enough for deep boxes to go in, so that would be no
problem. Or, is there another type of "large switch box" that I should
be using?

But, now that I think about it, I am not sure what kind of switches are
out there that would allow the ceiling fan and ceiling light to be
controlled separately from the wall switches. In the past, I just used
pull chain ceiling fan/light combos in rental units and didn't bother
trying to be able to control each fan and light separately from the wall
switch. I know there are remote control units out there, but I don't
want to put them in a rental unit since I think the tenants will end up
breaking or misplacing the remotes etc.

If I can't figure out a good wall switch setup for controlling the fan
and light separately, maybe I'll just stick with the pull chain type of
ceiling fan/lights for now. If I do that, maybe I could still run a
3-wire up from the switch to the fan/light (for possible future use) but
only use two of those wires for now.

If you want to use a large old work plastic box, get a "smart box" SB3G,
There is no reason you can't use separate wall switches, speed controls,
dimmers , etc. Just run a 3 wire cable from the switch box to the fan/light

 

[trader4]

Thanks.  I'm glad I asked the question here before doing anything.  Ihad
forgotten that the new codes call for a neutral at the switch boxes.  I'll
do what you suggested and daisy chain the feed between the switch boxes.  By
"large switch boxes", I assume you mean deep boxes, right?  The walls are
thick enough for deep boxes to go in, so that would be no problem.  Or,is
there another type of "large switch box" that I should be using?

But, now that I think about it, I am not sure what kind of switches are out
there that would allow the ceiling fan and ceiling light to be controlled
separately from the wall switches.  In the past, I just used pull chain
ceiling fan/light combos in rental units and didn't bother trying to be able
to control each fan and light separately from the wall switch.  I know there
are remote control units out there, but I don't want to put them in a rental
unit since I think the tenants will end up breaking or misplacing the
remotes etc.

If I can't figure out a good wall switch setup for controlling the fan and
light separately, maybe I'll just stick with the pull chain type of ceiling
fan/lights for now.  If I do that, maybe I could still run a 3-wire up from
the switch to the fan/light (for possible future use) but only use two of
those wires for now.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

The wall mounted fan controllers support controlling both
the fan and light.

 

[hr(bob) hofmann]

Thanks.  I'll have to look and see what type and size boxes are out there.
I like using plastic old work boxes instead of metal boxes.  At all 3 of the
locations where the ceiling fan/light switches will be going there is
already a single wall switch box that controls an outlet in each room.  So,
I may end up replacing them with 3-gang deep boxes or something like along
those lines.  That way, I could keep the original switch wiring and addthe
ceiling fan and ceiling light control switches.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

you need three wires plus a safety ground going up to the fan/light
fixture, two switchable hot wires and a neutral wire, plus a safety
ground. The switch for the fan is simply off-on, you use a pullchain
to control the fan speed. Had this for 30 years in our bedroom, and
it works just fine as long as the fan chain is reachable.

 

[trader4]

you need three wires plus a safety ground going up to the fan/light
fixture, two switchable hot wires and a neutral wire, plus a safety
ground.  The switch for the fan is simply off-on, you use a pullchain
to control the fan speed.  Had this for 30 years in our bedroom, and
it works just fine as long as the fan chain is reachable.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

With the fans I've bought in the last 15 years, the
speed was controlled with the wall switch/controller
or a remote. The fans do have a pull chain, not
sure if it also controls the speed, but don't see
why anyone doing a new install would do it that way.

 

[RBM]

With the fans I've bought in the last 15 years, the
speed was controlled with the wall switch/controller
or a remote. The fans do have a pull chain, not
sure if it also controls the speed, but don't see
why anyone doing a new install would do it that way.

As long as you have a 3 conductor cable going from the switch, you can
use separate wall switches, dimmers, or speed controls for independent
operation of the fan and light. There are also combination devices which
incorporate both a dimmer and speed control into a single device, so
save space. I don't find them to work particularly well though.

 

[RogerT]

As long as you have a 3 conductor cable going from the switch, you can
use separate wall switches, dimmers, or speed controls for independent
operation of the fan and light. There are also combination devices
which incorporate both a dimmer and speed control into a single
device, so save space. I don't find them to work particularly well
though.

Thanks. We are doing what you suggested and it seems like it is going to
work out fine. We did the feed by going from panel to switch to switch to
switch etc.

For the ceiling fan/light combos, we are running a 3-conductor (plus ground)
from the switch box up to the ceiling fan/light combo. And, so far, we are
using the blue 3-gang old work boxes for the ceiling fan/light combos-- one
gang is for the original switch to an outlet that was already on the wall
and the other two gangs are for the separate fan and light controls. I
don't like the combo fan/light controls that fit into one gang, and I would
rather have more room for the wiring by using two of the 3-gang slots for
separate fan and light controls. I didn't see the "smart box" plastic boxes
at Home Depot. I still have to check at Lowes, and if I can, I'll check at
electric supply places -- which is probably where I need to go.
Unfortunately, most of the elctric supply places around here went out of
business over the past year or two, so I have to find one that is nearby and
is still open.