Bluish Green "Stuff" On House Copper Water Pipes (and pinhole leaks)

[Bob]

Hello,

Have had a pinhole leak this year, and also a few years back, so started
looking at my Copper house water plumbing a bit.

Noticed several areas with that bluish-green coating on it.

a. Is this indicative of a pinhole leak developing ?

b. what actually is this bluish-green "stuff" ?

c. Is it a reaction of the Copper with the outside air, and thus
developing on the pipe's outside, or it coming from the inside ?

d. Interesting in that I see it in the middle of a run, here and there,
so it's unlikely that it is caused by any soldering flux residual.

I do also see it at joints, and am wondering if it is caused, here, by a
soldering flux residual ?

Any thoughts on the bluish-green stuff, and pinhole leaks would be most
appreciated.

BTW: how common are pinhole leaks in older (around 35 yr old) homes ?

Thanks,
Bob

 

[Joe]

Hello,

Have had a pinhole leak this year, and also a few years back, so started
looking at my Copper house water plumbing a bit.

Noticed several areas with that bluish-green coating on it.

a. Is this indicative of a pinhole leak developing ?

b. what actually is this bluish-green "stuff" ?

c.  Is it a reaction of the Copper with the outside air, and thus
developing on the pipe's outside, or it coming from the inside ?

d.  Interesting in that I see it in the middle of a run, here and there,
so it's unlikely that it is caused by any soldering flux residual.

I do also see it at joints, and am wondering if it is caused, here, by a
soldering flux residual ?

Any thoughts on the bluish-green stuff, and pinhole leaks would be most
appreciated.

BTW:  how common are pinhole leaks in older (around 35 yr old) homes ?

Thanks,
Bob

Copper pinholes show up most commonly in houses with well water,
sometime exacerbated by electrolysis from copper-iron junctions. In
worst cases it is like a cancer and just continues for years until
failures are intolerable. Assess your situation with this in mind. If
you want to eliminate the problem, eliminate the copper. CPVC, and PEX
are well regarded replacements, code approved nearly everywhere, and
have many advantages with the exception of electrical grounding. A
competent journeyman plumber with knowledge of isolation of
electrolytic sources might be able to correct such problems and save
replacing the major parts of your system.

Joe

 

[Molly Brown]

Hello,

Have had a pinhole leak this year, and also a few years back, so started
looking at my Copper house water plumbing a bit.

Noticed several areas with that bluish-green coating on it.

a. Is this indicative of a pinhole leak developing ?

b. what actually is this bluish-green "stuff" ?

c.  Is it a reaction of the Copper with the outside air, and thus
developing on the pipe's outside, or it coming from the inside ?

d.  Interesting in that I see it in the middle of a run, here and there,
so it's unlikely that it is caused by any soldering flux residual.

I do also see it at joints, and am wondering if it is caused, here, by a
soldering flux residual ?

Any thoughts on the bluish-green stuff, and pinhole leaks would be most
appreciated.

BTW:  how common are pinhole leaks in older (around 35 yr old) homes ?

Thanks,
Bob

There are three different standards of copper pipe classified by the
thickness of the copper. Type M is the thinnest with type L thicker
and type K the thickest. The type of the pipe is printed on the pipe.
You may still be able to read what type it is if you look closely.
Please try to read what type your pipes are and let us know and when
you replace your pipes make sure that it is type K this time. In some
cities type K is mandatory.

 

[Evan]

Hello,

Have had a pinhole leak this year, and also a few years back, so started
looking at my Copper house water plumbing a bit.

Noticed several areas with that bluish-green coating on it.

a. Is this indicative of a pinhole leak developing ?

b. what actually is this bluish-green "stuff" ?

c.  Is it a reaction of the Copper with the outside air, and thus
developing on the pipe's outside, or it coming from the inside ?

d.  Interesting in that I see it in the middle of a run, here and there,
so it's unlikely that it is caused by any soldering flux residual.

I do also see it at joints, and am wondering if it is caused, here, by a
soldering flux residual ?

Any thoughts on the bluish-green stuff, and pinhole leaks would be most
appreciated.

BTW:  how common are pinhole leaks in older (around 35 yr old) homes ?

Thanks,
Bob

If you have had one pinhole leak recently you are probably destined to
have several more soon...

Can you describe where the pinhole leak occurred? Was it near a
fitting which turned a corner, that sort of leak often occurs because
of the velocity of the water at the corner eating away at the pipe
which is helped by very bad water chemistry or a plumber who used
way too much flux when installing the pipes...

a. It can be, or it can be indicative of a lot of humidity in the
area
where the exposed pipes live...

b. It depends on the chemistry involved, it could be patina, which
naturally occurs on un-coated copper like roofs and gutters, etc...
Or it could be specific chemicals namely: Copper(II) Chloride or
Copper(II) Carbonate depending on your local water chemistry...

c. It could be either or, if your pipes are leaking the process of
corrosion is a mechanical and chemical breakdown and that can
spread out on the exterior surface of the pipe after a pinhole
leak breaks through... Your pipes could have also formed this
color on the outside of them from sweating and having the water
condensation which formed on them chemically react with the
exposed copper...

d. Define "middle of the run" are you saying that it is nowhere
near a soldered fitting or joint? Remember the pipes are empty
when originally soldered, excessive amounts of flux would be
washed away and settle elsewhere in the piping upon filling the
system with water...

Sounds like your water chemistry needs to be analyized...

Not knowing whether you are on city provided water or a well
makes a difference... More chloride chemical compounds in
city water usually, more hard carbonate type compounds in
well water... You could also have an issue with sulfides/sulfates
which are reacting with your pipes...

Without knowing what thickness of copper pipe your house has
or your local water chemistry and the volume of water you are
using its not easy to nail down whether 35 years of use is good
or bad performance...

~~ Evan

 

[jw]

If you have had one pinhole leak recently you are probably destined to
have several more soon...

Can you describe where the pinhole leak occurred? Was it near a
fitting which turned a corner, that sort of leak often occurs because
of the velocity of the water at the corner eating away at the pipe
which is helped by very bad water chemistry or a plumber who used
way too much flux when installing the pipes...

a. It can be, or it can be indicative of a lot of humidity in the
area
where the exposed pipes live...

b. It depends on the chemistry involved, it could be patina, which
naturally occurs on un-coated copper like roofs and gutters, etc...
Or it could be specific chemicals namely: Copper(II) Chloride or
Copper(II) Carbonate depending on your local water chemistry...

c. It could be either or, if your pipes are leaking the process of
corrosion is a mechanical and chemical breakdown and that can
spread out on the exterior surface of the pipe after a pinhole
leak breaks through... Your pipes could have also formed this
color on the outside of them from sweating and having the water
condensation which formed on them chemically react with the
exposed copper...

d. Define "middle of the run" are you saying that it is nowhere
near a soldered fitting or joint? Remember the pipes are empty
when originally soldered, excessive amounts of flux would be
washed away and settle elsewhere in the piping upon filling the
system with water...

Sounds like your water chemistry needs to be analyized...

Not knowing whether you are on city provided water or a well
makes a difference... More chloride chemical compounds in
city water usually, more hard carbonate type compounds in
well water... You could also have an issue with sulfides/sulfates
which are reacting with your pipes...

Without knowing what thickness of copper pipe your house has
or your local water chemistry and the volume of water you are
using its not easy to nail down whether 35 years of use is good
or bad performance...

~~ Evan

A lightning strike can make a pinhole in a copper pipe. I saw it
happen twice. It usually occurs in the end of a long straight run and
blows out the on or near an elbow. The lightning dont want to follow
the turn in the pipe, so it just blows out the end at the turn.
Generally there's wiring and appliances damaged too.

 

[harry]

Hello,

Have had a pinhole leak this year, and also a few years back, so started
looking at my Copper house water plumbing a bit.

Noticed several areas with that bluish-green coating on it.

a. Is this indicative of a pinhole leak developing ?

b. what actually is this bluish-green "stuff" ?

c.  Is it a reaction of the Copper with the outside air, and thus
developing on the pipe's outside, or it coming from the inside ?

d.  Interesting in that I see it in the middle of a run, here and there,
so it's unlikely that it is caused by any soldering flux residual.

I do also see it at joints, and am wondering if it is caused, here, by a
soldering flux residual ?

Any thoughts on the bluish-green stuff, and pinhole leaks would be most
appreciated.

BTW:  how common are pinhole leaks in older (around 35 yr old) homes ?

Thanks,
Bob

The bluish green stuff is predominately copper carbonate and copper
hydroxide. Formed when oxygen , carbon dioxide and copper react.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copper_carbonate
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copper(II)_hydroxide

A lot of the problems arise with copper pipe due to bad manufacturing
techniques. Traces of die metals and lubricants initiate the
corrosion process which is then self sustaining. Also if there is
galvanised iron elsewhere in your system (zinc) you get electrolytic
effects going on.
If the pipe is very thin, holes soon appear.

Some fluxes used in the soldering process have a similar effect.

 

[Bob]

Hi all,

Thanks for such good info.; really appreciate it.

Some clarifications that were requested:

Yes, it is Type M, apparently. The thin stuff.

Both pinholes developed in a horiz run, nowhere near a joint or elbow.

Thanks again,
Bob

 

[phlopz83]

Hello,

Have had a pinhole leak this year, and also a few years back, so started
looking at my Copper house water plumbing a bit.

Noticed several areas with that bluish-green coating on it.

a. Is this indicative of a pinhole leak developing ?

b. what actually is this bluish-green "stuff" ?

c. Is it a reaction of the Copper with the outside air, and thus
developing on the pipe's outside, or it coming from the inside ?

d. Interesting in that I see it in the middle of a run, here and there,
so it's unlikely that it is caused by any soldering flux residual.

I do also see it at joints, and am wondering if it is caused, here, by a
soldering flux residual ?

Any thoughts on the bluish-green stuff, and pinhole leaks would be most
appreciated.

BTW: how common are pinhole leaks in older (around 35 yr old) homes ?

Thanks,
Bob

I have started plumbing in small town with a pinhole problem when i go to replace 5 year old copper pipe with pex the pipe is so thin that i can not even cut it with copper cutters, pinholes are a problem, I have stopped using copper altogether Pex is so ugly if the municipality is supplying water that destroys pipes cant they be held responsible,( I have worked in towns with 35 year old copper and older the pipes are almost as good as the day they were put in. the lead solder they used back then oxidizes and causes leaks at joints. Aquarise (cpvc)seems like a good copper replacer

 

[bob haller]

My best friends galvanized last near 70 years, he replaced it all with copper which is now failing after 35 years.....

looks like all his lines will need replaced again and he is over 80 and going to get quotes from plumbers......

he is not happy at all......

 

[bob haller]

i will happily go all PEX, its freeze tolerant, easy to install, can be all home runs, no coonections or Ts in walls, plus no sne person will ever steal it....