Bathroom plumbing advice


R

Road_Hog

Right, any help/advice much appreciated. Any advice like get a plumber in,
keep it to yourself.

Between now an Christmas day (effectively Thursday & Friday), I need to fit
a new radiator, toilet and basin.

Yhe basin isn't that important and can wait a few days, but I thought I'd
ask for the advice in the same thread. If I get time, I'll do all three. I
have all three of the items, ready for fitting and have done my research.

Radiator, seems fairly simple, replacement is the same width as current
radiator. It would seem that you can turn the inlet and out pipe off,
unscrew the current rad, PTFE the the new rad and connect it up, without
draining the system. Sounds simple, have I got anything wrong?

Basin is a little more faffing, have to switch off the water supply (cold is
direct mains fed) and drain the system. Use tube cutter to cut existing
pipes to taps, so that I can use compression connectors and fit the new taps
via the supplied 'tails'.

New toilet, this is going to be the bugger. Old toilet is standard tank
against the wall, with freshwater piper to the bowl, and plastic connecter
for the waste pipe going to a cast iron pipe. Now, the cast iron pipe is the
old size (I forget the size, but it is not the size of a modern system/pipe,
which I think might be 110mm and this is 90mm). The old toilet sits about a
foot away from the wall, the new toilet is one where the tank rests on the
back of the bowl and should be up against the wall.

I'm going to need a disk cutter to take the waste pipe back, any suggestions
(hire, not buy) and what is the best sort of connecting pipe for the waste
outlet. I'm hoping that I may get away with cutting the pipe/extending it,
using compression connectors, but may have to buy a cheap plumbers torch and
solder some short pipework (again any suggestions).
 
Ad

Advertisements

T

The Medway Handyman

Right, any help/advice much appreciated. Any advice like get a plumber in,
keep it to yourself.

Between now an Christmas day (effectively Thursday& Friday), I need to fit
a new radiator, toilet and basin.

Yhe basin isn't that important and can wait a few days, but I thought I'd
ask for the advice in the same thread. If I get time, I'll do all three. I
have all three of the items, ready for fitting and have done my research.

Radiator, seems fairly simple, replacement is the same width as current
radiator. It would seem that you can turn the inlet and out pipe off,
unscrew the current rad, PTFE the the new rad and connect it up, without
draining the system. Sounds simple, have I got anything wrong?
Basically no. However - the new rad may well be a 'slightly' different
size, so allow for that by making sure there is a bit of movement in the
copper pipes - the holes in the floor may not allow that - you might
have to enlarge them a bit.

Use about 8 turns of PTFE tape on the tails.
Basin is a little more faffing, have to switch off the water supply (cold is
direct mains fed) and drain the system. Use tube cutter to cut existing
pipes to taps, so that I can use compression connectors and fit the new taps
via the supplied 'tails'.
You should be able to turn off the hot - look for a gate valve on the
pipe feeding the BOTTOM of the hot water cylinder.

The tails could be bendable copper or flexible stainless braided. If
the former use these instead
http://www.screwfix.com/c/heating-plumbing/compression-hoses/cat831678
New toilet, this is going to be the bugger. Old toilet is standard tank
against the wall, with freshwater piper to the bowl, and plastic connecter
for the waste pipe going to a cast iron pipe. Now, the cast iron pipe is the
old size (I forget the size, but it is not the size of a modern system/pipe,
which I think might be 110mm and this is 90mm). The old toilet sits about a
foot away from the wall, the new toilet is one where the tank rests on the
back of the bowl and should be up against the wall.
Could be an embuggerance. Multi Quick connectors should sort the waste
joint out, find a 'proper' plumbing parts supplier, not B&Q et al.
I'm going to need a disk cutter to take the waste pipe back, any suggestions
(hire, not buy)
Angle Grinder is what you need. Cheapo 4" one about £20 - cheaper than
hire & you get to keep an incredibly useful tool.

and what is the best sort of connecting pipe for the waste
outlet. I'm hoping that I may get away with cutting the pipe/extending it,
using compression connectors, but may have to buy a cheap plumbers torch and
solder some short pipework (again any suggestions).
As above, multi quick adaptor, loads of different variations available.

In many cases its much easier to live with the fact that the new WC
cistern doesn't go back to the wall & just box in the gap.
 
N

Newshound

Right, any help/advice much appreciated. Any advice like get a plumber in,
keep it to yourself.

Between now an Christmas day (effectively Thursday& Friday), I need to fit
a new radiator, toilet and basin.

Yhe basin isn't that important and can wait a few days, but I thought I'd
ask for the advice in the same thread. If I get time, I'll do all three. I
have all three of the items, ready for fitting and have done my research.

Radiator, seems fairly simple, replacement is the same width as current
radiator. It would seem that you can turn the inlet and out pipe off,
unscrew the current rad, PTFE the the new rad and connect it up, without
draining the system. Sounds simple, have I got anything wrong?
Well, for one thing when you disconnect each valve from the rad you will
find one part left in the old radiator. If you don't have replacements,
you will have to get them out, so you will need the right sized (large)
allen key, and they will probably be well and truly rusted in.
Basin is a little more faffing, have to switch off the water supply (cold is
direct mains fed) and drain the system. Use tube cutter to cut existing
pipes to taps, so that I can use compression connectors and fit the new taps
via the supplied 'tails'.
Instead of simple compression couplings, fit a pair of "service valves".
Then you will be able to isolate the taps in future to change washers.
You talk about draining the system. Is there a hot water tank? If so,
there may well be a tap you can close near the tank to save throwing
away a tankfull of hot water.
New toilet, this is going to be the bugger. Old toilet is standard tank
against the wall, with freshwater piper to the bowl, and plastic connecter
for the waste pipe going to a cast iron pipe. Now, the cast iron pipe is the
old size (I forget the size, but it is not the size of a modern system/pipe,
which I think might be 110mm and this is 90mm). The old toilet sits about a
foot away from the wall, the new toilet is one where the tank rests on the
back of the bowl and should be up against the wall.

I'm going to need a disk cutter to take the waste pipe back, any suggestions
(hire, not buy) and what is the best sort of connecting pipe for the waste
outlet. I'm hoping that I may get away with cutting the pipe/extending it,
using compression connectors, but may have to buy a cheap plumbers torch and
solder some short pipework (again any suggestions).
Do you mean you are going to cut the cast iron waste pipe with a disk
cutter?
There's not quite enough detail about your layout. Does the waste pipe go
horizontally into the wall, or is it a Tee off a vertical pipe? I'm
feeling quite
nervous about this. OK, if you don't want to have a plumber on call,
have you
any friends or family with some experience? Sounds like you've never
done soldering: consider push-fit fittings. The metal ones are a bit
more expensive, but a bit tidier. Clean up the ends of the copper pipe
or you could damage the rubber seals.
 
N

NT

On 21/12/2011 23:32, Road_Hog wrote:

You should be able to turn off the hot - look for a gate valve on the
pipe feeding the BOTTOM of the hot water cylinder.
Easier to just turn the hot tap on in the bath. By the time you chop
the sink hot, no hw will come out. Gate valves have a habit of failing
to work anyway.


NT
 
R

Road_Hog

Newshound said:
Do you mean you are going to cut the cast iron waste pipe with a disk
cutter?
There's not quite enough detail about your layout. Does the waste pipe go
horizontally into the wall,
Yes.

I'm feeling quite nervous about this.
Hey, you're not the one doing it ;->
OK, if you don't want to have a plumber on call,
have you
any friends or family with some experience?
No.

Sounds like you've never done soldering: consider push-fit fittings. The
metal ones are a bit more expensive, but a bit tidier. Clean up the ends of
the copper pipe or you could damage the rubber seals.

My soldering experince extends to 35 years since I was a kid, the only
problem is that is electrical soldering, not metal plumbing soldering. But I
learn quickly. Thanks for your suggestion about push fit fittings.
 
R

Road_Hog

On 21/12/2011 23:32, Road_Hog wrote:

You should be able to turn off the hot - look for a gate valve on the
pipe feeding the BOTTOM of the hot water cylinder.
Easier to just turn the hot tap on in the bath. By the time you chop
the sink hot, no hw will come out. Gate valves have a habit of failing
to work anyway.


NT
 
Ad

Advertisements

R

Road_Hog

The Medway Handyman said:
Basically no. However - the new rad may well be a 'slightly' different
size, so allow for that by making sure there is a bit of movement in the
copper pipes - the holes in the floor may not allow that - you might have
to enlarge them a bit.

Use about 8 turns of PTFE tape on the tails.

You should be able to turn off the hot - look for a gate valve on the pipe
feeding the BOTTOM of the hot water cylinder.

The tails could be bendable copper or flexible stainless braided.
They're the braided stuff. Thanks for your other advice.
 
T

Tim Watts

Road_Hog said:
Right, any help/advice much appreciated. Any advice like get a plumber in,
keep it to yourself.

Between now an Christmas day (effectively Thursday & Friday), I need to
fit a new radiator, toilet and basin.

Yhe basin isn't that important and can wait a few days, but I thought I'd
ask for the advice in the same thread. If I get time, I'll do all three. I
have all three of the items, ready for fitting and have done my research.

Radiator, seems fairly simple, replacement is the same width as current
radiator. It would seem that you can turn the inlet and out pipe off,
unscrew the current rad, PTFE the the new rad and connect it up, without
draining the system. Sounds simple, have I got anything wrong?
Seems reasonable. Have some spare copper pipe and a few fittings handy *just
in case* you need to modify one end due to width differences.

Basin is a little more faffing, have to switch off the water supply (cold
is direct mains fed) and drain the system. Use tube cutter to cut existing
pipes to taps, so that I can use compression connectors and fit the new
taps via the supplied 'tails'.
Shoudl be easy enough if using tails. Will the waste line up or is it worth
having a new u-bend, a bit of 32mm pipe and a couple of "universal"
compression elbows handy (hint - B&Q, keep reciept, money back if not
opened)?
New toilet, this is going to be the bugger. Old toilet is standard tank
against the wall, with freshwater piper to the bowl, and plastic connecter
for the waste pipe going to a cast iron pipe. Now, the cast iron pipe is
the old size (I forget the size, but it is not the size of a modern
system/pipe, which I think might be 110mm and this is 90mm). The old
toilet sits about a foot away from the wall, the new toilet is one where
the tank rests on the back of the bowl and should be up against the wall.

I'm going to need a disk cutter to take the waste pipe back, any
suggestions (hire, not buy) and what is the best sort of connecting pipe
for the waste outlet. I'm hoping that I may get away with cutting the
pipe/extending it, using compression connectors, but may have to buy a
cheap plumbers torch and solder some short pipework (again any
suggestions).
4.5" angle grinder, 2, maybe 3 metal cutting disks. Googles a must, ear
defenders advisory. The sparks will cause damage to painted, glazed,
decorative metal and glass surfaces in the immediate line of fire and may
ignite sheets used for protection - so perhaps have some scrap metal or ply
for shielding anything important. Be very careful that the cutter does not
snatch[1] - try to work around the pipe rather than go through in one go
(which is why I suggested 4.5" rather than 9" grinder).

[1] which will shatter your disc and possibly leave you extracting bits of
pointy disc from your body.

Wear many layers of clothes just in case. I'm not a panic monger, but you
are working in a confined space which is prone to making things more likely
to go wrong.

As for the connector - a decent plumber's merchant should be able to produce
something that will insert into the old cast iron pipe. Take external
measurements of the pipe (not the flange) and give it to him. Also mention
it is for a new bog - the old spigots did sometimes have a different size to
modern ones.

What he will sell you is something with flappy fins which should be
extremely forgiving of variations of size and insertion angles. I like to
apply liberal amounts of silicone plumbers grease (heaviest you can get) to
these to aid both insertion and subsequant seal against an old pitted
surface.

If you can take measurement sof the new bog spigot, try to work out if it
will be central to the pipe or offset - as funnily enough, there are offset
pan connectors made to solve such problems.

Personally I like to dose the cistern with bleach, flush and repeat before
doing these jobs - to partially sanitise the pipe work and the old bog.

HTH

Tim
 
R

Road_Hog

Tim Watts said:
Shoudl be easy enough if using tails. Will the waste line up or is it
worth
having a new u-bend, a bit of 32mm pipe and a couple of "universal"
compression elbows handy (hint - B&Q, keep reciept, money back if not
opened)?
No, I doubt the waste pipe will line up. I've two good places where I buy my
DIY stuff, one a hardware shop, the real old fashioned type, where you
wander in and tell them want you want and what you're trying to do, where
they then smile at you and tell you what you actually need and produce the
widget from behind the counter. The other is a plumber's merchant, well
priced and used to have a guy that was like the DIY shop people but he
appears to have left. I did ask about a waste pipe a week ago. I wanted a
flexi pipe, just because it would be easier and less hassle with the lining
up of the basin, but they didn't seem to go with it.

New toilet, this is going to be the bugger. Old toilet is standard tank
against the wall, with freshwater piper to the bowl, and plastic
connecter
for the waste pipe going to a cast iron pipe. Now, the cast iron pipe is
the old size (I forget the size, but it is not the size of a modern
system/pipe, which I think might be 110mm and this is 90mm). The old
toilet sits about a foot away from the wall, the new toilet is one where
the tank rests on the back of the bowl and should be up against the wall.

I'm going to need a disk cutter to take the waste pipe back, any
suggestions (hire, not buy) and what is the best sort of connecting pipe
for the waste outlet. I'm hoping that I may get away with cutting the
pipe/extending it, using compression connectors, but may have to buy a
cheap plumbers torch and solder some short pipework (again any
suggestions).
4.5" angle grinder, 2, maybe 3 metal cutting disks. Googles a must, ear
defenders advisory. The sparks will cause damage to painted, glazed,
decorative metal and glass surfaces in the immediate line of fire and may
ignite sheets used for protection - so perhaps have some scrap metal or
ply
for shielding anything important. Be very careful that the cutter does not
snatch[1] - try to work around the pipe rather than go through in one go
(which is why I suggested 4.5" rather than 9" grinder).

[1] which will shatter your disc and possibly leave you extracting bits of
pointy disc from your body.

Wear many layers of clothes just in case. I'm not a panic monger, but you
are working in a confined space which is prone to making things more
likely
to go wrong.
Looks like the mechanic's overalls are going to get an airing
tomorrow/Friday. Thanks for the advice. Yes it is a confined space, between
the basin (new or old) and the shower and as I'm 6'2", it'll be very cosy
and somewhat warm I should imagine, with all the protective layers of
clothing.
As for the connector - a decent plumber's merchant should be able to
produce
something that will insert into the old cast iron pipe. Take external
measurements of the pipe (not the flange) and give it to him. Also mention
it is for a new bog - the old spigots did sometimes have a different size
to
modern ones.

What he will sell you is something with flappy fins which should be
extremely forgiving of variations of size and insertion angles. I like to
apply liberal amounts of silicone plumbers grease (heaviest you can get)
to
these to aid both insertion and subsequant seal against an old pitted
surface.

If you can take measurement sof the new bog spigot, try to work out if it
will be central to the pipe or offset - as funnily enough, there are
offset
pan connectors made to solve such problems.

Personally I like to dose the cistern with bleach, flush and repeat before
doing these jobs - to partially sanitise the pipe work and the old bog.
I've already had to replace the waste pipe connector before (the dog/puppy
nibbled it), which is how I knew that the caste iron pipe was a different
size, because the previous owner had got the wrong size and just slit the
'neck' to make it fit. It's not a nice job working on the waste pipe. I'm
only glad that it is unseasonally warm at the moment and I will be able to
have the windows open, plus I'll make sure I don't have anything to eat
beforehand.
 
A

ARWadsworth

Road_Hog said:
Right, any help/advice much appreciated. Any advice like get a
plumber in, keep it to yourself.

Between now an Christmas day (effectively Thursday & Friday), I need
to fit a new radiator, toilet and basin.
New toilet, this is going to be the bugger. Old toilet is standard
tank against the wall, with freshwater piper to the bowl, and plastic
connecter for the waste pipe going to a cast iron pipe. Now, the cast
iron pipe is the old size (I forget the size, but it is not the size
of a modern system/pipe, which I think might be 110mm and this is
90mm). The old toilet sits about a foot away from the wall, the new
toilet is one where the tank rests on the back of the bowl and should
be up against the wall.
Are you sure the first part of the waste pipe is not lead where it connects
to the plastic adaptor?
 
Ad

Advertisements

A

Andrew Gabriel

Hey, you're not the one doing it ;->



My soldering experince extends to 35 years since I was a kid, the only
problem is that is electrical soldering, not metal plumbing soldering. But I
learn quickly. Thanks for your suggestion about push fit fittings.
Electrical soldering experience will get you most of the way there.
Even more important with plumbing is making sure both parts are hot
enough before soldering. If one part is significantly larger in terms
of heat requirement (e.g. a soldered brass fitting), start heating
that part first. Oh, and preparation is everything - make sure all
the soldered surfaces are bright bare copper (or brass) using steel
wool, and lightly fluxed. Solder is drawn into the join by capilliary
action, so you only need to apply at one point at the edge of the
join. Use enough to make a small ring of solder just show all the
way around, but not so it's dripping off the pipe (and running
inside the pipe). Wipe off remaining flux with a slightly damp cloth
whilst joint is still warm, but not hot. Do some practice joins
first, and afterwards unsolder them to see how good solder coverage
you had over the mating surfaces.

BES is a good place to get solder fittings by mail order at a tiny
fraction of the shed price, but they're now closed until the new year.
My local independant plumbers merchant occasionally has bags of mixed
elbows, T's, couplers etc on the counter for a fraction of the price
of the individual parts, and that's handy for getting a stock of bits
going.
 
K

Kevin

On 21/12/2011 23:32, Road_Hog wrote:
Radiator, seems fairly simple, replacement is the same width as current
radiator. It would seem that you can turn the inlet and out pipe off,
unscrew the current rad, PTFE the the new rad and connect it up, without
draining the system. Sounds simple, have I got anything wrong?
Others have warned about the possibility of slight length variation and
difficulty of removing old radiator tails. Some need allen keys, some
have a square for a spanner, but may not leave room for stillsons or
similar. Have a contingency plan for new valves, which may, at worst,
need the copper pipes extending or their ends replacing. Consider a trv
if you have to change the valves, with a valve incorporating a drain
cock at the other end.

Which brings me to the main point: the radiator will probably be full of
a disgusting black liquid, capable of staining absolutely anything it
drips or (more likely) sprays on. Open the bleed valve to let it drain
out, once you've undone the bottom connections and started catching this
water in tubs, old towels, or whatever you can get under them.

Then pat yourself on the back for draining it so carefully, with not a
drop on the floor, pick the radiator up to carry it outside, and pour a
steady stream of this evil dye all down your stair carpet.
 
C

charles

On 21/12/2011 23:32, Road_Hog wrote:

Others have warned about the possibility of slight length variation and
difficulty of removing old radiator tails. Some need allen keys, some
have a square for a spanner, but may not leave room for stillsons or
similar. Have a contingency plan for new valves, which may, at worst,
need the copper pipes extending or their ends replacing. Consider a trv
if you have to change the valves, with a valve incorporating a drain
cock at the other end.
Which brings me to the main point: the radiator will probably be full of
a disgusting black liquid, capable of staining absolutely anything it
drips or (more likely) sprays on. Open the bleed valve to let it drain
out, once you've undone the bottom connections and started catching this
water in tubs, old towels, or whatever you can get under them.
Then pat yourself on the back for draining it so carefully, with not a
drop on the floor, pick the radiator up to carry it outside, and pour a
steady stream of this evil dye all down your stair carpet.
been there, done that and got the scars to prove it.
 
R

Roger Mills

On 21/12/2011 23:32, Road_Hog wrote:

Others have warned about the possibility of slight length variation and
difficulty of removing old radiator tails. Some need allen keys, some
have a square for a spanner, but may not leave room for stillsons or
similar. Have a contingency plan for new valves, which may, at worst,
need the copper pipes extending or their ends replacing. Consider a trv
if you have to change the valves, with a valve incorporating a drain
cock at the other end.

Which brings me to the main point: the radiator will probably be full of
a disgusting black liquid, capable of staining absolutely anything it
drips or (more likely) sprays on. Open the bleed valve to let it drain
out, once you've undone the bottom connections and started catching this
water in tubs, old towels, or whatever you can get under them.

Then pat yourself on the back for draining it so carefully, with not a
drop on the floor, pick the radiator up to carry it outside, and pour a
steady stream of this evil dye all down your stair carpet.
You beat me to it! I read all the way down this thread and kept thinking
"Why hasn't anyone mentioned about needing to drain the old radiator?"

the procedure which I follow is::
1. Close both valves. That will keep all the system water in the pipes
*apart* from that in this individual radiator.
2. Undo the bleed screw, to let air in as water comes out
3. Hold a containing under one of the valve to tail joints, and crack
the joint. I find old foil Chinese food containers useful because they
can be bent to shape. Make sure that you put plenty of old towels down,
too, to catch any spills
4. Empty the radiator one small containerful at a time, tipping it into
a larger bowl when full
5. When no more comes out of the first side, crack the joint on the
other side, and collect any remaining water
6. Then fully unscrew both valve to tail joints, and lift the radiator off
7. With towels underneath, slightly upend the radiator and drain any
remaining water/sludge (there will be some!) into the a bowl.
8. Stuff bits of kitchen roll into each of the tails before carrying the
radiator outside, to make sure nothing drips on the carpets

You'll then have to remove the tails from the old radiator, and fit them
to the new one - using PTFE tape, as you say. [I always use gas grade
PTFE tape which is far tougher than the regular stuff].

Unless you're very lucky, you'll find that the new radiator doesn't fit
the old brackets - even though it's the same size - so you'll have to
change those, too. This will require some careful measuring so that the
new rad's tails end up in the right place to fit the existing valves and
pipes.

Do you really need to be doing this so close to Christmas? What are the
consequences of living with the old stuff for a few more days, relative
to those of living with nothing because it all goes pear shaped?
--
Cheers,
Roger
____________
Please reply to Newsgroup. Whilst email address is valid, it is seldom
checked.
 
A

Alan

Roger Mills said:
You beat me to it! I read all the way down this thread and kept
thinking "Why hasn't anyone mentioned about needing to drain the old
radiator?"
And when the water in it is cold :) If something goes wrong you can
stick your finger in the hole or hand hold the pipes in place to do the
joint up again if the water is cold. Try this with hot water in the
pipes....
 
Ad

Advertisements

A

Andrew Gabriel

And when the water in it is cold :) If something goes wrong you can
stick your finger in the hole or hand hold the pipes in place to do the
joint up again if the water is cold. Try this with hot water in the
pipes....
or a pipe with a razor sharp end...
 
A

Andrew Gabriel

Others have warned about the possibility of slight length variation and
difficulty of removing old radiator tails. Some need allen keys, some
have a square for a spanner, but may not leave room for stillsons or
similar.
I found a 1/2" cold chisel was a perfect match to engage with the keys
inside radiator tails.

Tried to take a tail out of a radiator at a friend's house, and the
nice new allen key he bought for the purpose wound up like a piece
of plasticene. Cold chisel with juicy spanner to the rescue (used as
a key, not percussively;-)
Have a contingency plan for new valves, which may, at worst,
need the copper pipes extending or their ends replacing. Consider a trv
if you have to change the valves, with a valve incorporating a drain
cock at the other end.
The other thing to always carry around in your plumbing kit - a
couple of push-fit end-caps. If it all goes tits-up, they can get
you out of various holes temporarily.
Which brings me to the main point: the radiator will probably be full of
a disgusting black liquid, capable of staining absolutely anything it
drips or (more likely) sprays on. Open the bleed valve to let it drain
out, once you've undone the bottom connections and started catching this
water in tubs, old towels, or whatever you can get under them.
Tip the radiator to get the last bit out. Then retighten the bleed
key, and carry the radiator out upside-down (connections at the top,
bleed key at the bottom), so nothing more runs out.
 
Ad

Advertisements

Ad

Advertisements


Ask a Question

Want to reply to this thread or ask your own question?

You'll need to choose a username for the site, which only take a couple of moments. After that, you can post your question and our members will help you out.

Ask a Question

Similar Threads


Top