underpinning

Discussion in 'UK DIY' started by timegoesby, Feb 6, 2004.

  1. timegoesby

    timegoesby Guest

    In a barn conversion, is it worth underpinning the walls on the
    outside by digging a few trenches and pouring concrete in, backfilling
    and digging the remainder? Is it worth doing inside too to prevent
    movement? When excavating the centre to lay the new insulated floor I
    know it is possible for the walls to move. Anyone ever done this? I
    don't want the walls to move when the excavation starts. The main part
    of the barn will be a timber frame which takes the loadings. All
    suggestions welcome as barn conversions can be problematic.
     
    timegoesby, Feb 6, 2004
    #1
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  2. timegoesby

    PJO Guest

    "timegoesby" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > In a barn conversion, is it worth underpinning the walls on the
    > outside by digging a few trenches and pouring concrete in, backfilling
    > and digging the remainder? Is it worth doing inside too to prevent
    > movement? When excavating the centre to lay the new insulated floor I
    > know it is possible for the walls to move. Anyone ever done this? I
    > don't want the walls to move when the excavation starts. The main part
    > of the barn will be a timber frame which takes the loadings. All
    > suggestions welcome as barn conversions can be problematic.


    There's rather a lot more to underpinning than that!

    Maybe you should seek the opinion of a structural engineer in the first
    instance and then maybe a specialist.

    It's not usually a DIY option and can run very expensive if you cock-up.
     
    PJO, Feb 6, 2004
    #2
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  3. timegoesby

    Hugo Nebula Guest

    On 6 Feb 2004 07:05:53 -0800, a particular chimpanzee named
    (timegoesby) randomly hit the keyboard and
    produced:

    >In a barn conversion, is it worth underpinning the walls


    Depends on whether the walls need underpinning or not. If there is
    evidence of continuing movement, or the conversion is likely to cause
    movement (by undermining the foundations to lower a floor for
    instance), then yes. It isn't something one should attempt
    willy-nilly, and if it is required, you should carry it out as per a
    structural engineer's recommendations (which the Building Control will
    want you to do anyway).

    My experience of timber framed barns is somewhat limited, but a
    substantial stone barn very rarely warrants underpinning, as the
    movement has usually occured soon after the structure was built, and
    the lime mortar allows for a lot of movement anyway. Most failures
    are caused by a lack of lateral restraint and inadequate buttressing.

    >All suggestions welcome as barn conversions can be problematic.


    It sounds like you need the advice of a structural engineer, and an
    architect or building surveyor.
    --
    Hugo Nebula
    "The fact that no-one on the internet wants a piece of this
    shows you just how far you've strayed from the pack".
     
    Hugo Nebula, Feb 6, 2004
    #3
  4. timegoesby

    IMM Guest

    "Hugo Nebula" <> wrote in message
    news:...

    > On 6 Feb 2004 07:05:53 -0800, a particular chimpanzee named
    > (timegoesby) randomly hit the keyboard and
    > produced:
    >
    > >In a barn conversion, is it worth underpinning the walls

    >
    > Depends on whether the walls need underpinning or not. If there is
    > evidence of continuing movement, or the conversion is likely to cause
    > movement (by undermining the foundations to lower a floor for
    > instance), then yes. It isn't something one should attempt
    > willy-nilly, and if it is required, you should carry it out as per a
    > structural engineer's recommendations (which the Building Control will
    > want you to do anyway).


    As I see it: Didn't he say he just wanted no wall movement when the centre
    of the stone barn is excavated? That is not actually underpinning, which is
    digging under the existing foundations and pouring in concrete. This
    appears a logical move as even if a structural engineer says the foundations
    are correct there is no guarantee that there will not be sideways movement
    when excavating.

    > My experience of timber framed barns is somewhat limited, but a
    > substantial stone barn very rarely warrants underpinning, as the
    > movement has usually occured soon after the structure was built, and
    > the lime mortar allows for a lot of movement anyway. Most failures
    > are caused by a lack of lateral restraint and inadequate buttressing.


    "Most failures are caused by a lack of lateral restraint and inadequate
    buttressing." "Lack of lateral restraint". He want to puts some in.
    Disturbing a stone wall probably resting on earth can cause big problems.
    Barn abandonment's are common because of foundation problems when the build
    starts.

    > >All suggestions welcome as barn conversions can be problematic.

    >
    > It sounds like you need the advice of a structural engineer, and an
    > architect or building surveyor.


    Sounds good, but even that will not account for "lateral movement" when the
    build starts. He did say the walls are non-load-bearing, so the existing
    foundations should be adequate. I would rest the roof on the inner timber
    frame and leave the barn walls as virtually cladding holding only them
    selves up.
     
    IMM, Feb 7, 2004
    #4
  5. timegoesby

    Dave Plowman Guest

    In article <c00h2b$dm0$>,
    PJO <> wrote:
    > Maybe you should seek the opinion of a structural engineer in the first
    > instance and then maybe a specialist.


    > It's not usually a DIY option and can run very expensive if you cock-up.


    It's certainly a DIY option given that the majority of the cost is labour
    - and not particularly skilled labour.

    Of course it's advisable to get decent pro advice on any structural job.

    --
    *The problem with the world is that everyone is a few drinks behind *

    Dave Plowman London SW 12
    RIP Acorn
     
    Dave Plowman, Feb 7, 2004
    #5
  6. timegoesby

    timegoesby Guest

    Dave Plowman <> wrote in message news:<>...
    > In article <c00h2b$dm0$>,
    > PJO <> wrote:
    > > Maybe you should seek the opinion of a structural engineer in the first
    > > instance and then maybe a specialist.

    >
    > > It's not usually a DIY option and can run very expensive if you cock-up.

    >
    > It's certainly a DIY option given that the majority of the cost is labour
    > - and not particularly skilled labour.
    >
    > Of course it's advisable to get decent pro advice on any structural job.


    Thanks to all who responded.

    Some nearly got it. I should been mire specific. I will have a
    structural survey. The point is that I don't want the walls to move
    after any excavation. I know someone who had a survey and the
    foundations were assessed as good enough. The walls moved and it cost
    a lot of money to put right.

    I was thinking of "side-pining" rather than underpinning. Anyone know
    how wide? I was thinking of 1 metre. Maybe this is too wide and it
    should be 18 inches wide (from the wall) and 1 metre deep.
     
    timegoesby, Feb 13, 2004
    #6
  7. timegoesby

    timegoesby Guest

    Dave Plowman <> wrote in message news:<>...
    > In article <c00h2b$dm0$>,
    > PJO <> wrote:
    > > Maybe you should seek the opinion of a structural engineer in the first
    > > instance and then maybe a specialist.

    >
    > > It's not usually a DIY option and can run very expensive if you cock-up.

    >
    > It's certainly a DIY option given that the majority of the cost is labour
    > - and not particularly skilled labour.
    >
    > Of course it's advisable to get decent pro advice on any structural job.


    Thanks to all who responded.

    Some nearly got it. I should been mire specific. I will have a
    structural survey. The point is that I don't want the walls to move
    after any excavation. I know someone who had a survey and the
    foundations were assessed as good enough. The walls moved and it cost
    a lot of money to put right.

    I was thinking of "side-pining" rather than underpinning. Anyone know
    how wide? I was thinking of 1 metre. Maybe this is too wide and it
    should be 18 inches wide (from the wall) and 1 metre deep.
     
    timegoesby, Feb 13, 2004
    #7
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