Trane XR11 versus XR12

Discussion in 'HVAC' started by Peter, Apr 25, 2004.

  1. Peter

    Peter Guest

    For the information of anyone about to purchase a Trane system.

    Recently I decided to replace my two 18 year old GE heat pump
    systems I decided to stay with 2 ton units as these were always
    adequate in the past, and Trane is a reputable brand. As electricity
    costs are relatively low in the San Antonio area (about $.09/kwh) I
    decided on 12 SEER units.
    When discussing the project with one of the bidders he stated that
    that XR11 units were a better buy, about $300 cheaper and only 1 SEER
    less. The sales literature revealed no differences in the models, and
    I continued on this path. I placed an order, with a different
    contractor as it happens, for two XR11 heat pumps and two variable
    speed air handlers.
    The crew came to start installation of the fist system, and by the
    end of the day it was up and running. The next morning the second heat
    pump was unpacked, and and was obviously physically smaller than the
    already installed and running unit. A check showed that the installed
    heat pump was a 2 Ton XR12, and the second was a 2 ton XR11, as
    ordered. The contractor manager called me and apologised, but said
    that it was not worth their while to replace the XR 12, and if I was
    willing, they would leave it installed. There would be no extra
    charge. I accepted.
    I am now in the possibly unique position of having XR11 and XR12 2
    Ton heat pumps running side by side, both feeding identical air
    handlers.
    The XR11 is definitely noisier than the XR12. I believe the
    compressors are identical, but the XR11 has a smaller coil and to
    remove the same amount of heat, more air has to pass through it. This
    results in the XR12 having an 800rpm fan, while the XR11 fan runs at
    1024rpm. The additional noise is mainly fan noise. Both units are
    much quieter than the old.
    I also discovered that the XR12 came with a "Quick Start" device
    fitted, as required by the variable speed handlers. The XR11 did not
    have this, and a kit had to be fitted.
    Why do the manufacturers not give this information in their sales
    literature, or at least train their sales reps to have this knowledge.
    And why are decibel figures not given for the different models. I know
    that in practice it will depend on the installation environment, but
    we could have noise levels based on standard conditions for
    comparison.
     
    Peter, Apr 25, 2004
    #1
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  2. Peter

    SQLit Guest

    "Peter" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > For the information of anyone about to purchase a Trane system.
    >
    > Recently I decided to replace my two 18 year old GE heat pump
    > systems I decided to stay with 2 ton units as these were always
    > adequate in the past, and Trane is a reputable brand. As electricity
    > costs are relatively low in the San Antonio area (about $.09/kwh) I
    > decided on 12 SEER units.
    > When discussing the project with one of the bidders he stated that
    > that XR11 units were a better buy, about $300 cheaper and only 1 SEER
    > less. The sales literature revealed no differences in the models, and
    > I continued on this path. I placed an order, with a different
    > contractor as it happens, for two XR11 heat pumps and two variable
    > speed air handlers.
    > The crew came to start installation of the fist system, and by the
    > end of the day it was up and running. The next morning the second heat
    > pump was unpacked, and and was obviously physically smaller than the
    > already installed and running unit. A check showed that the installed
    > heat pump was a 2 Ton XR12, and the second was a 2 ton XR11, as
    > ordered. The contractor manager called me and apologised, but said
    > that it was not worth their while to replace the XR 12, and if I was
    > willing, they would leave it installed. There would be no extra
    > charge. I accepted.
    > I am now in the possibly unique position of having XR11 and XR12 2
    > Ton heat pumps running side by side, both feeding identical air
    > handlers.
    > The XR11 is definitely noisier than the XR12. I believe the
    > compressors are identical, but the XR11 has a smaller coil and to
    > remove the same amount of heat, more air has to pass through it. This
    > results in the XR12 having an 800rpm fan, while the XR11 fan runs at
    > 1024rpm. The additional noise is mainly fan noise. Both units are
    > much quieter than the old.
    > I also discovered that the XR12 came with a "Quick Start" device
    > fitted, as required by the variable speed handlers. The XR11 did not
    > have this, and a kit had to be fitted.
    > Why do the manufacturers not give this information in their sales
    > literature, or at least train their sales reps to have this knowledge.
    > And why are decibel figures not given for the different models. I know
    > that in practice it will depend on the installation environment, but
    > we could have noise levels based on standard conditions for
    > comparison.


    Welcome to the wonderful world of Marketing. They did tell you the noise
    level.
    The speed of the condenser fan was a dead give away. Well to me.
    They build machines to market against their competitors. No one really wants
    to divulge any more information than the other guy.
    Call your contractor and ask what it would cost to upgrade the 11 to a 800
    rpm motor and fan. Since you would not know the difference it will be your
    nickel. I was told by a trane guy that it can be done with out sacrificing
    performance. You will have to buy an new fan as well. Because the slower fan
    has a larger pitch in the blades.

    Check and see if you got compressor blankets. Might sound dumb, but you can
    loose another 20-30 decibels if there is not one installed. Just did it on
    my brothers, during a party. Wife was pissed because I shut the a/c off in
    the middle of the party. Took us 10 minutes to put the blanket on. Turned
    the system back on and sat down with some Tequila, the fine light champagne
    from Mexico. She came out and asked what was wrong with the a/c. " It does
    not make so much noise. There must be something wrong with it!"
    Another fine repair job, bro owes me big now. Time for another Tequila.
     
    SQLit, Apr 25, 2004
    #2
    1. Advertising

  3. Peter

    lp13-30 Guest

    Actually, if you had GE units, they were older than 18 yrs.Pretty sure
    Trane took over in 1983. Some of the old GE units were not very
    efficient SEER wise, but they run forever. One question tho--11 SEER
    units of any brand are very rare (at least in SA so I am not very
    familiar with them) -- what is the compressor warranty on the 11? If it
    is 5 vs 10 on the 12 SEER, that alone is worth something. I believer I
    would have gone with 12s for $300 more..
    Larry
     
    lp13-30, Apr 25, 2004
    #3
  4. Peter

    profft Guest

    Fine fune call them back and have a 34° pitch blade and 800 rpm motor and
    fan shroud ordered up. The tricky part will be mounting the shroud cause
    that 2TWR's isn't deep enough, you'd really be better off making a deal to
    upgrade the thing so you have matching equipment.

    "Peter" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > For the information of anyone about to purchase a Trane system.
    >
    > Recently I decided to replace my two 18 year old GE heat pump
    > systems I decided to stay with 2 ton units as these were always
    > adequate in the past, and Trane is a reputable brand. As electricity
    > costs are relatively low in the San Antonio area (about $.09/kwh) I
    > decided on 12 SEER units.
    > When discussing the project with one of the bidders he stated that
    > that XR11 units were a better buy, about $300 cheaper and only 1 SEER
    > less. The sales literature revealed no differences in the models, and
    > I continued on this path. I placed an order, with a different
    > contractor as it happens, for two XR11 heat pumps and two variable
    > speed air handlers.
    > The crew came to start installation of the fist system, and by the
    > end of the day it was up and running. The next morning the second heat
    > pump was unpacked, and and was obviously physically smaller than the
    > already installed and running unit. A check showed that the installed
    > heat pump was a 2 Ton XR12, and the second was a 2 ton XR11, as
    > ordered. The contractor manager called me and apologised, but said
    > that it was not worth their while to replace the XR 12, and if I was
    > willing, they would leave it installed. There would be no extra
    > charge. I accepted.
    > I am now in the possibly unique position of having XR11 and XR12 2
    > Ton heat pumps running side by side, both feeding identical air
    > handlers.
    > The XR11 is definitely noisier than the XR12. I believe the
    > compressors are identical, but the XR11 has a smaller coil and to
    > remove the same amount of heat, more air has to pass through it. This
    > results in the XR12 having an 800rpm fan, while the XR11 fan runs at
    > 1024rpm. The additional noise is mainly fan noise. Both units are
    > much quieter than the old.
    > I also discovered that the XR12 came with a "Quick Start" device
    > fitted, as required by the variable speed handlers. The XR11 did not
    > have this, and a kit had to be fitted.
    > Why do the manufacturers not give this information in their sales
    > literature, or at least train their sales reps to have this knowledge.
    > And why are decibel figures not given for the different models. I know
    > that in practice it will depend on the installation environment, but
    > we could have noise levels based on standard conditions for
    > comparison.
     
    profft, Apr 25, 2004
    #4
  5. Re: Trane XR11 versus XR12 / noisy units

    Reminds me of the cond unit changeout I did one time. Got it
    plumbed in and fired up, the customer asked if it was
    running. Yes. Seems the old heat pump (piston comp, couple
    decades old, no blanket) was so noisy that they couldn't
    have the back windows open when it was running. And couldn't
    sit on the back deck while the heat pump was running.

    --

    Christopher A. Young
    Learn more about Jesus
    www.lds.org
    www.mormons.com


    "SQLit" <> wrote in message
    news:deRic.92146$U83.81391@fed1read03...


    Check and see if you got compressor blankets. Might sound
    dumb, but you can
    loose another 20-30 decibels if there is not one installed.
    Just did it on
    my brothers, during a party. Wife was pissed because I shut
    the a/c off in
    the middle of the party. Took us 10 minutes to put the
    blanket on. Turned
    the system back on and sat down with some Tequila, the fine
    light champagne
    from Mexico. She came out and asked what was wrong with the
    a/c. " It does
    not make so much noise. There must be something wrong with
    it!"
    Another fine repair job, bro owes me big now. Time for
    another Tequila.
     
    Stormin Mormon, Apr 26, 2004
    #5
  6. Peter

    Tekkie Guest

    Re: Trane XR11 versus XR12 / noisy units

    Stormin Mormon posted for all of us....

    > so noisy that they couldn't
    > have the back windows open when it was running. And couldn't
    >

    So they had the windows open while it was running? Humm. So you hacked at it?
    --
    Tekkie
     
    Tekkie, Apr 26, 2004
    #6
  7. Peter

    Oscar_Lives Guest

    Re: Trane XR11 versus XR12 / noisy units

    "Stormin Mormon" <cayoung61-#spamblock*> wrote in message
    news:c6hm8f$cc4rv$-berlin.de...
    > Reminds me of the cond unit changeout I did one time. Got it
    > plumbed in and fired up, the customer asked if it was
    > running. Yes. Seems the old heat pump (piston comp, couple
    > decades old, no blanket) was so noisy that they couldn't
    > have the back windows open when it was running. And couldn't
    > sit on the back deck while the heat pump was running.
    >
    > --
    >
    > Christopher A. Young



    Why would they want to leave the windows open while running their heat pump?

    Were these folks relatives of yours?
     
    Oscar_Lives, Apr 26, 2004
    #7
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