Trane Heat Pump - Confirm my fears?

Discussion in 'HVAC' started by lugnut, Nov 25, 2006.

  1. lugnut

    lugnut Guest

    I have a Trane XE1200 1.5 ton heat pump system in my bonus
    room that is my office. I am a pretty good DIY'r with some
    history of commercial refrigeration in the 60's. I'll
    probably get flamed but, I am tired of paying for service
    calls with no results. This is my first heat pump.

    A few days ago, it started using the heat strips constantly
    where it seldom had ever used the strips and the air handler
    runs constantly to keep up. OD temps in the 40's which
    should be easy for it. All of the lines inside the unit
    felt cool at about equal ambient temp. I pulled the
    diagrams and checked the pressures and found both pressures
    equal about where they should be for static ambient temps
    with R22. The thermostat is calling for heat and the
    contactor to the compressor is closed.

    I checked again yesterday with temps in the upper 60's in
    cool mode. Found the same - thermostat calling for cooling
    and the compressor contactor closed with voltage to the
    compressor feeds. Pressures are equal around 135psig.
    Could not detect compressor running. (I don't hear well)
    Voltage from contactor to compressor at 127 volts phase to
    ground and 248 volts phase to phase which tells me the
    compressor should be running. Checked for continuity in
    compressor with feeds disconnected from contactor and found
    both legs at infinity. The pressure sensor on the
    compressor is closed. If I am reading all of this
    correctly, the compressor is dead.

    The reason I am asking is that the unit was not cooling well
    in the fall. I had the service folks who installed the unit
    when we built on 2000 out several times to check it. Even
    though I was seeing what I believed to be low pressures,
    they informed me this was OK. When I first started having
    cooling problems, I was getting pressures like 150/82 on a
    90 deg day with the unit running constantly. I have already
    spent over $500 trying to get this resolved with the service
    folks and the only thing they have done is test and add
    refrigerant. The pressure have never increased above about
    180 on the high side although the low side was about 125 the
    last time I know the compressor was running while being
    checked. This is an R22 system. I think the compressor has
    been limping for some time. Am I missing something or is
    it time to replace at least the compressor? Is a 6 year old
    system even worth a compressor when install labor is
    considered?

    Any ideas or pointers greatly appreciated.

    Lugnut
    lugnut, Nov 25, 2006
    #1
    1. Advertising

  2. lugnut

    Mo Hoaner Guest

    "lugnut" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    >I have a Trane XE1200 1.5 ton heat pump system in my bonus
    > room that is my office. I am a pretty good DIY'r with some
    > history of commercial refrigeration in the 60's. I'll
    > probably get flamed but, I am tired of paying for service
    > calls with no results. This is my first heat pump.


    The replacement will be your second.

    > A few days ago, it started using the heat strips constantly
    > where it seldom had ever used the strips and the air handler
    > runs constantly to keep up. OD temps in the 40's which
    > should be easy for it. All of the lines inside the unit
    > felt cool at about equal ambient temp. I pulled the
    > diagrams and checked the pressures and found both pressures
    > equal about where they should be for static ambient temps
    > with R22. The thermostat is calling for heat and the
    > contactor to the compressor is closed.


    Obviously, the compressor should be running, and obviously something is
    wrong.

    > I checked again yesterday with temps in the upper 60's in
    > cool mode. Found the same - thermostat calling for cooling
    > and the compressor contactor closed with voltage to the
    > compressor feeds. Pressures are equal around 135psig.
    > Could not detect compressor running. (I don't hear well)


    And we can't hear it here either. Did you test for the other indication that
    would verify that it is running? You know, the one that doesn't involve
    getting the gauges out, and works well regardless of the ambient noise
    level. That measurement would answer the larger question, also.

    > Voltage from contactor to compressor at 127 volts phase to
    > ground and 248 volts phase to phase which tells me the
    > compressor should be running. Checked for continuity in
    > compressor with feeds disconnected from contactor and found
    > both legs at infinity. The pressure sensor on the
    > compressor is closed. If I am reading all of this
    > correctly, the compressor is dead.


    You have a 3 phase compressor in a resi. application? Or, did you really
    mean you measured line to ground?

    > The reason I am asking is that the unit was not cooling well
    > in the fall. I had the service folks who installed the unit
    > when we built on 2000 out several times to check it. Even
    > though I was seeing what I believed to be low pressures,
    > they informed me this was OK.


    The pressures, or the fact that you don't think the unit is cooling well?

    > When I first started having
    > cooling problems, I was getting pressures like 150/82 on a
    > 90 deg day with the unit running constantly. I have already
    > spent over $500 trying to get this resolved with the service
    > folks and the only thing they have done is test and add
    > refrigerant. The pressure have never increased above about
    > 180 on the high side although the low side was about 125 the
    > last time I know the compressor was running while being
    > checked. This is an R22 system. I think the compressor has
    > been limping for some time. Am I missing something or is
    > it time to replace at least the compressor? Is a 6 year old
    > system even worth a compressor when install labor is
    > considered?


    Assuming the compressor is bad, it may or may not be under warranty. This
    also depends on whether the tech. took notes on the fact that you've been
    screwing with it. You will pay to have it replaced. The information that you
    have provided regarding your tests does not definitively lead me to believe
    that there's an issue with the compressor.

    > Any ideas or pointers greatly appreciated.


    Stop screwing with it, and try a different tech. if you don't like the one
    that's been coming out. Also... and this is REAL important. STOP telling
    people - especially HVAC techs - that you've been releasing refrigerant to
    the atmosphere. That itty bitty amount that leaks out when you take your 35
    year old gauge set off is plenty to get you nailed by the EPA if you piss
    off the wrong person.

    > Lugnut
    Mo Hoaner, Nov 25, 2006
    #2
    1. Advertising

  3. lugnut

    Noon-Air Guest

    "lugnut" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    >I have a Trane XE1200 1.5 ton heat pump system in my bonus
    > room that is my office. I am a pretty good DIY'r with some
    > history of commercial refrigeration in the 60's. I'll
    > probably get flamed but, I am tired of paying for service
    > calls with no results. This is my first heat pump.
    >
    > A few days ago, it started using the heat strips constantly
    > where it seldom had ever used the strips and the air handler
    > runs constantly to keep up. OD temps in the 40's which
    > should be easy for it. All of the lines inside the unit
    > felt cool at about equal ambient temp. I pulled the
    > diagrams and checked the pressures and found both pressures
    > equal about where they should be for static ambient temps
    > with R22. The thermostat is calling for heat and the
    > contactor to the compressor is closed.
    >
    > I checked again yesterday with temps in the upper 60's in
    > cool mode. Found the same - thermostat calling for cooling
    > and the compressor contactor closed with voltage to the
    > compressor feeds. Pressures are equal around 135psig.
    > Could not detect compressor running. (I don't hear well)
    > Voltage from contactor to compressor at 127 volts phase to
    > ground and 248 volts phase to phase which tells me the
    > compressor should be running. Checked for continuity in
    > compressor with feeds disconnected from contactor and found
    > both legs at infinity. The pressure sensor on the
    > compressor is closed. If I am reading all of this
    > correctly, the compressor is dead.
    >
    > The reason I am asking is that the unit was not cooling well
    > in the fall. I had the service folks who installed the unit
    > when we built on 2000 out several times to check it. Even
    > though I was seeing what I believed to be low pressures,
    > they informed me this was OK. When I first started having
    > cooling problems, I was getting pressures like 150/82 on a
    > 90 deg day with the unit running constantly. I have already
    > spent over $500 trying to get this resolved with the service
    > folks and the only thing they have done is test and add
    > refrigerant. The pressure have never increased above about
    > 180 on the high side although the low side was about 125 the
    > last time I know the compressor was running while being
    > checked. This is an R22 system. I think the compressor has
    > been limping for some time. Am I missing something or is
    > it time to replace at least the compressor? Is a 6 year old
    > system even worth a compressor when install labor is
    > considered?
    >
    > Any ideas or pointers greatly appreciated.
    >
    > Lugnut


    Compressor is probably toast.... but you got a Trane!!
    Noon-Air, Nov 25, 2006
    #3
  4. lugnut

    lugnut Guest

    On Sat, 25 Nov 2006 12:23:44 -0500, "Mo Hoaner"
    <> wrote:

    Thanks for your response.

    >
    >"lugnut" <> wrote in message
    >news:...
    >>I have a Trane XE1200 1.5 ton heat pump system in my bonus
    >> room that is my office. I am a pretty good DIY'r with some
    >> history of commercial refrigeration in the 60's. I'll
    >> probably get flamed but, I am tired of paying for service
    >> calls with no results. This is my first heat pump.

    >
    >The replacement will be your second.


    I was afraid of that. I may try to negotiate with the
    service folks who have already not done me any good at
    diadnostics.

    >
    >> A few days ago, it started using the heat strips constantly
    >> where it seldom had ever used the strips and the air handler
    >> runs constantly to keep up. OD temps in the 40's which
    >> should be easy for it. All of the lines inside the unit
    >> felt cool at about equal ambient temp. I pulled the
    >> diagrams and checked the pressures and found both pressures
    >> equal about where they should be for static ambient temps
    >> with R22. The thermostat is calling for heat and the
    >> contactor to the compressor is closed.

    >
    >Obviously, the compressor should be running, and obviously something is
    >wrong.
    >
    >> I checked again yesterday with temps in the upper 60's in
    >> cool mode. Found the same - thermostat calling for cooling
    >> and the compressor contactor closed with voltage to the
    >> compressor feeds. Pressures are equal around 135psig.
    >> Could not detect compressor running. (I don't hear well)

    >
    >And we can't hear it here either. Did you test for the other indication that
    >would verify that it is running? You know, the one that doesn't involve
    >getting the gauges out, and works well regardless of the ambient noise
    >level. That measurement would answer the larger question, also.


    If you mean whether I tried placing my hand on it when it
    should be running - yes - and felt absolutely nothing other
    than a dead compressor. I also used my clamp-on amp meter
    on the feeds and got no reading. The lines are all cool.

    >
    >> Voltage from contactor to compressor at 127 volts phase to
    >> ground and 248 volts phase to phase which tells me the
    >> compressor should be running. Checked for continuity in
    >> compressor with feeds disconnected from contactor and found
    >> both legs at infinity. The pressure sensor on the
    >> compressor is closed. If I am reading all of this
    >> correctly, the compressor is dead.

    >
    >You have a 3 phase compressor in a resi. application? Or, did you really
    >mean you measured line to ground?


    It is a single phase 230 volt unit. I have 127 on each leg
    to ground and 248 across the legs on the compressor feeds on
    the compressor side of the contactor.

    >
    >> The reason I am asking is that the unit was not cooling well
    >> in the fall. I had the service folks who installed the unit
    >> when we built on 2000 out several times to check it. Even
    >> though I was seeing what I believed to be low pressures,
    >> they informed me this was OK.

    >
    >The pressures, or the fact that you don't think the unit is cooling well?


    The unit has never had a problem heating or cooling this
    space. When it became obvious that it could not maintain
    the ID temp of the roon at less than 90 on an 80 degree
    space that it had neve had a problem maintaining 72 on
    similar days, it did not appear to be performing well. I
    used my guages and checked it finding what appeared to be
    low pressures for the conditions and call the service folks.
    They said it was fine and only need a bit of refrigerant. I
    shrgged it off while the warranty expired. It got worse.

    >
    >> When I first started having
    >> cooling problems, I was getting pressures like 150/82 on a
    >> 90 deg day with the unit running constantly. I have already
    >> spent over $500 trying to get this resolved with the service
    >> folks and the only thing they have done is test and add
    >> refrigerant. The pressure have never increased above about
    >> 180 on the high side although the low side was about 125 the
    >> last time I know the compressor was running while being
    >> checked. This is an R22 system. I think the compressor has
    >> been limping for some time. Am I missing something or is
    >> it time to replace at least the compressor? Is a 6 year old
    >> system even worth a compressor when install labor is
    >> considered?

    >
    >Assuming the compressor is bad, it may or may not be under warranty. This
    >also depends on whether the tech. took notes on the fact that you've been
    >screwing with it. You will pay to have it replaced. The information that you
    >have provided regarding your tests does not definitively lead me to believe
    >that there's an issue with the compressor.


    It was well within the 5 yr warranty when the tech came.
    It is now out of warranty and out of my pocket. The
    installers tech was the first to ever screw with it after
    installation. It was built in 7/2000. Unless Trane has
    extended their warranty without notice, it is all my nickel.
    I would be more than happy for them to participate. I was
    under the misinformed impression that Trane was the best and
    should be good for a considerably longer time. I had to
    have the Trane LPG furnace on the main level replaced a
    couple of years ago. In this area, my prior heating/cooling
    units have gone 12-15 years with no problem other than
    annual checkups.

    >
    >> Any ideas or pointers greatly appreciated.

    >
    >Stop screwing with it, and try a different tech. if you don't like the one
    >that's been coming out. Also... and this is REAL important. STOP telling
    >people - especially HVAC techs - that you've been releasing refrigerant to
    >the atmosphere. That itty bitty amount that leaks out when you take your 35
    >year old gauge set off is plenty to get you nailed by the EPA if you piss
    >off the wrong person.


    Thanks, I'll only screw around with it if they experts I
    hire can't help. I would have though the folks who
    installed the systems during construction would have been a
    good choice for maintenance. I appear to have been wrong at
    this point.

    Lugnut
    lugnut, Nov 25, 2006
    #4
  5. lugnut

    lugnut Guest

    On Sat, 25 Nov 2006 12:08:24 -0600, "Noon-Air"
    <> wrote:

    >
    >"lugnut" <> wrote in message
    >news:...
    >>I have a Trane XE1200 1.5 ton heat pump system in my bonus
    >> room that is my office. I am a pretty good DIY'r with some
    >> history of commercial refrigeration in the 60's. I'll
    >> probably get flamed but, I am tired of paying for service
    >> calls with no results. This is my first heat pump.
    >>
    >> A few days ago, it started using the heat strips constantly
    >> where it seldom had ever used the strips and the air handler
    >> runs constantly to keep up. OD temps in the 40's which
    >> should be easy for it. All of the lines inside the unit
    >> felt cool at about equal ambient temp. I pulled the
    >> diagrams and checked the pressures and found both pressures
    >> equal about where they should be for static ambient temps
    >> with R22. The thermostat is calling for heat and the
    >> contactor to the compressor is closed.
    >>
    >> I checked again yesterday with temps in the upper 60's in
    >> cool mode. Found the same - thermostat calling for cooling
    >> and the compressor contactor closed with voltage to the
    >> compressor feeds. Pressures are equal around 135psig.
    >> Could not detect compressor running. (I don't hear well)
    >> Voltage from contactor to compressor at 127 volts phase to
    >> ground and 248 volts phase to phase which tells me the
    >> compressor should be running. Checked for continuity in
    >> compressor with feeds disconnected from contactor and found
    >> both legs at infinity. The pressure sensor on the
    >> compressor is closed. If I am reading all of this
    >> correctly, the compressor is dead.
    >>
    >> The reason I am asking is that the unit was not cooling well
    >> in the fall. I had the service folks who installed the unit
    >> when we built on 2000 out several times to check it. Even
    >> though I was seeing what I believed to be low pressures,
    >> they informed me this was OK. When I first started having
    >> cooling problems, I was getting pressures like 150/82 on a
    >> 90 deg day with the unit running constantly. I have already
    >> spent over $500 trying to get this resolved with the service
    >> folks and the only thing they have done is test and add
    >> refrigerant. The pressure have never increased above about
    >> 180 on the high side although the low side was about 125 the
    >> last time I know the compressor was running while being
    >> checked. This is an R22 system. I think the compressor has
    >> been limping for some time. Am I missing something or is
    >> it time to replace at least the compressor? Is a 6 year old
    >> system even worth a compressor when install labor is
    >> considered?
    >>
    >> Any ideas or pointers greatly appreciated.
    >>
    >> Lugnut

    >
    >Compressor is probably toast.... but you got a Trane!!
    >



    Let's assume it is toast for the moment - or, at least, I
    think it is. Do you have a recommendation. My thoughts now
    are to go with a Lennox OD unit of similar specs since this
    one seemed to work well untill it didn't. I am not inclined
    to replace the air handler as it is in the attic and would
    require some structure or roof to be cut out to replace. I
    am sure as hell not in a mood to cut thru the roof.

    Lugnut
    lugnut, Nov 25, 2006
    #5
  6. lugnut

    daytona° Guest

    do you understand a multi-meter?

    "lugnut" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    >I have a Trane XE1200 1.5 ton heat pump system in my bonus
    > room that is my office. I am a pretty good DIY'r with some
    > history of commercial refrigeration in the 60's. I'll
    > probably get flamed but, I am tired of paying for service
    > calls with no results. This is my first heat pump.
    >
    > A few days ago, it started using the heat strips constantly
    > where it seldom had ever used the strips and the air handler
    > runs constantly to keep up. OD temps in the 40's which
    > should be easy for it. All of the lines inside the unit
    > felt cool at about equal ambient temp. I pulled the
    > diagrams and checked the pressures and found both pressures
    > equal about where they should be for static ambient temps
    > with R22. The thermostat is calling for heat and the
    > contactor to the compressor is closed.
    >
    > I checked again yesterday with temps in the upper 60's in
    > cool mode. Found the same - thermostat calling for cooling
    > and the compressor contactor closed with voltage to the
    > compressor feeds. Pressures are equal around 135psig.
    > Could not detect compressor running. (I don't hear well)
    > Voltage from contactor to compressor at 127 volts phase to
    > ground and 248 volts phase to phase which tells me the
    > compressor should be running. Checked for continuity in
    > compressor with feeds disconnected from contactor and found
    > both legs at infinity. The pressure sensor on the
    > compressor is closed. If I am reading all of this
    > correctly, the compressor is dead.
    >
    > The reason I am asking is that the unit was not cooling well
    > in the fall. I had the service folks who installed the unit
    > when we built on 2000 out several times to check it. Even
    > though I was seeing what I believed to be low pressures,
    > they informed me this was OK. When I first started having
    > cooling problems, I was getting pressures like 150/82 on a
    > 90 deg day with the unit running constantly. I have already
    > spent over $500 trying to get this resolved with the service
    > folks and the only thing they have done is test and add
    > refrigerant. The pressure have never increased above about
    > 180 on the high side although the low side was about 125 the
    > last time I know the compressor was running while being
    > checked. This is an R22 system. I think the compressor has
    > been limping for some time. Am I missing something or is
    > it time to replace at least the compressor? Is a 6 year old
    > system even worth a compressor when install labor is
    > considered?
    >
    > Any ideas or pointers greatly appreciated.
    >
    > Lugnut
    daytona°, Nov 25, 2006
    #6
  7. lugnut

    Noon-Air Guest

    <snipped>
    >>
    >>Compressor is probably toast.... but you got a Trane!!
    >>

    >
    >
    > Let's assume it is toast for the moment - or, at least, I
    > think it is. Do you have a recommendation. My thoughts now
    > are to go with a Lennox OD unit of similar specs since this
    > one seemed to work well untill it didn't.


    Why go with a lesser quality piece of ...(Lennox) equipment??.... for a lot
    less than a new system, you should be able to get the compressor replaced.
    Just find a *COMPETENT* tech to do it.....and this doesn't necessarely mean
    it has to be a Trane dealer.

    > I am not inclined
    > to replace the air handler as it is in the attic and would
    > require some structure or roof to be cut out to replace. I
    > am sure as hell not in a mood to cut thru the roof.


    If the outside unit is replaced, then the inside unit needs to be replaced
    also so they are matched and will work as they are supposed to, and you
    won't have any warranty issues if the installer decides to take a powder.
    If you have to cut a hole in the roof to get the air handler in or out, then
    it sure as hell doesn't comply with code and *NO* inspector will sign off on
    the work.

    > Lugnut
    Noon-Air, Nov 25, 2006
    #7
  8. lugnut

    Noon-Air Guest

    <.p.jm@see_my_sig_for_address.com> wrote in message
    news:...
    > On Sat, 25 Nov 2006 16:34:06 -0600, "Noon-Air" <>
    > wrote:
    >
    >>
    >><snipped>
    >>>>
    >>>>Compressor is probably toast.... but you got a Trane!!
    >>>>
    >>>
    >>>
    >>> Let's assume it is toast for the moment - or, at least, I
    >>> think it is. Do you have a recommendation. My thoughts now
    >>> are to go with a Lennox OD unit of similar specs since this
    >>> one seemed to work well untill it didn't.

    >>
    >>Why go with a lesser quality piece of ...(Lennox) equipment??.... for a
    >>lot
    >>less than a new system, you should be able to get the compressor replaced.
    >>Just find a *COMPETENT* tech to do it.....and this doesn't necessarely
    >>mean
    >>it has to be a Trane dealer.
    >>
    >>> I am not inclined
    >>> to replace the air handler as it is in the attic and would
    >>> require some structure or roof to be cut out to replace. I
    >>> am sure as hell not in a mood to cut thru the roof.

    >>
    >>If the outside unit is replaced, then the inside unit needs to be replaced
    >>also so they are matched and will work as they are supposed to, and you
    >>won't have any warranty issues if the installer decides to take a powder.

    >
    > Don't fucking start with that bullshit again.
    >
    > It will work JUST FUCKING FINE, he DOES NOT have to replace
    > the 6 year old inside unit, and THERE AIN'T NO MAGIC ABOUT IT. It
    > merely won't be a 'listed combination', it WILL NOT AFFECT HIS
    > WARRANTY, and you really REALLY need to stop being such a fucking
    > thief, trying to scare people with that nonsense.
    >
    >>If you have to cut a hole in the roof to get the air handler in or out,
    >>then
    >>it sure as hell doesn't comply with code and *NO* inspector will sign off
    >>on
    >>the work.

    >
    > Bullshit again. It's grandfathered in, NO inspection is
    > required, and it can sit there JUST FINE.
    >
    > Learn to try LEGITIMATE sales pitches Steve, stop LYING to
    > people to make an extra buck.


    OK Mr know-it-all, come on down, I would be more than happy to show you a
    heat pump system that is getting a new air handler this week because some
    hack put a new 3 ton 13 SEER heat pump on a 3 ton 10 SEER air handler and it
    almost works in cooling but it doesn't work at all in heat mode.
    It ain't magic, its a SERIOUS coil size mis-match(old 3 ton RCBA 10 SEER
    coil that is too small for new 2 ton13 SEER condenser or heat pump) and new
    heat pump(13 SEER heat pump) . It won't run because it trips on high head in
    heat mode. The guy that installed the 13 SEER heat pump is nowhere to be
    found.

    The warranty is on the person/company who's name is on the original purchase
    ticket. Are *YOU* going to warranty equipment that you wasn't purchased
    from, and installed by you?? I sure won't... Part of my margin/mark-up on
    the equipment that I sell and install it to cover any warranty labor issues
    during the covered period, including any extended warranty period covered by
    a 3rd party underwriter.

    Until you are actually out in the field *WORKING* on the stuff, maybe you
    need to sit back and watch and learn(and don't give me any of your bullshit
    about that either).
    While I am at it, you need to find out *IF* this guy is in an area where
    there is code enforcement. I mearly said that if he had to cut a hole in the
    roof to get the old one out or the new one in, that it won't pass
    inspection... and thats *NOT* grandfathered in.
    I guess when you don't actually *WORK ON* the equipment, you don't have to
    deal with inspectors or know the IMC.
    Noon-Air, Nov 26, 2006
    #8
  9. lugnut

    Bubba Guest

    On Sat, 25 Nov 2006 23:01:54 GMT, .p.jm@see_my_sig_for_address.com
    wrote:

    >On Sat, 25 Nov 2006 16:34:06 -0600, "Noon-Air" <>
    >wrote:
    >
    >>
    >><snipped>
    >>>>
    >>>>Compressor is probably toast.... but you got a Trane!!
    >>>>
    >>>
    >>>
    >>> Let's assume it is toast for the moment - or, at least, I
    >>> think it is. Do you have a recommendation. My thoughts now
    >>> are to go with a Lennox OD unit of similar specs since this
    >>> one seemed to work well untill it didn't.

    >>
    >>Why go with a lesser quality piece of ...(Lennox) equipment??.... for a lot
    >>less than a new system, you should be able to get the compressor replaced.
    >>Just find a *COMPETENT* tech to do it.....and this doesn't necessarely mean
    >>it has to be a Trane dealer.
    >>
    >>> I am not inclined
    >>> to replace the air handler as it is in the attic and would
    >>> require some structure or roof to be cut out to replace. I
    >>> am sure as hell not in a mood to cut thru the roof.

    >>
    >>If the outside unit is replaced, then the inside unit needs to be replaced
    >>also so they are matched and will work as they are supposed to, and you
    >>won't have any warranty issues if the installer decides to take a powder.

    >
    > Don't fucking start with that bullshit again.
    >
    > It will work JUST FUCKING FINE, he DOES NOT have to replace
    >the 6 year old inside unit, and THERE AIN'T NO MAGIC ABOUT IT. It
    >merely won't be a 'listed combination', it WILL NOT AFFECT HIS
    >WARRANTY, and you really REALLY need to stop being such a fucking
    >thief, trying to scare people with that nonsense.
    >
    >>If you have to cut a hole in the roof to get the air handler in or out, then
    >>it sure as hell doesn't comply with code and *NO* inspector will sign off on
    >>the work.

    >
    > Bullshit again. It's grandfathered in, NO inspection is
    >required, and it can sit there JUST FINE.
    >
    > Learn to try LEGITIMATE sales pitches Steve, stop LYING to
    >people to make an extra buck.
    >
    >
    >>
    >>> Lugnut

    >>

    Just my $0.04 worth............
    Mix-matching a heat pump system CAN be done but it can really get you
    in a mess at times.
    If you replace the outdoor unit PLEASE try and AT LEAST replace the
    indoor coil with a match to the outdoor unit. It can be a little bit
    of an abortion at times and other times it goes in quite well.
    Matching a piston to an indoor coil with different brand outdoor can
    really SUCK sometimes. I had to mate a new Frigidaire air handler with
    an existing builder grade York heat pump. Neither pistion recommended
    worked worth a crap. I had to try two additional pistons (metering
    devices) before I got the one that worked well. This can eat up
    valuable time. I prefer matching a system when it comes to a heat
    pump.
    Bubba
    Bubba, Nov 26, 2006
    #9
  10. lugnut

    daytona° Guest

    When mis matching condensor and evaporators, make sure what style it
    is...whether the reversing is in the evap or condensor
    Bubba is right for the few dollars more...do the evap and the condensor and
    at that point you might as well do the lineset and start with a complete
    clean job


    "Bubba" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > On Sat, 25 Nov 2006 23:01:54 GMT, .p.jm@see_my_sig_for_address.com
    > wrote:
    >
    >>On Sat, 25 Nov 2006 16:34:06 -0600, "Noon-Air" <>
    >>wrote:
    >>
    >>>
    >>><snipped>
    >>>>>
    >>>>>Compressor is probably toast.... but you got a Trane!!
    >>>>>
    >>>>
    >>>>
    >>>> Let's assume it is toast for the moment - or, at least, I
    >>>> think it is. Do you have a recommendation. My thoughts now
    >>>> are to go with a Lennox OD unit of similar specs since this
    >>>> one seemed to work well untill it didn't.
    >>>
    >>>Why go with a lesser quality piece of ...(Lennox) equipment??.... for a
    >>>lot
    >>>less than a new system, you should be able to get the compressor
    >>>replaced.
    >>>Just find a *COMPETENT* tech to do it.....and this doesn't necessarely
    >>>mean
    >>>it has to be a Trane dealer.
    >>>
    >>>> I am not inclined
    >>>> to replace the air handler as it is in the attic and would
    >>>> require some structure or roof to be cut out to replace. I
    >>>> am sure as hell not in a mood to cut thru the roof.
    >>>
    >>>If the outside unit is replaced, then the inside unit needs to be
    >>>replaced
    >>>also so they are matched and will work as they are supposed to, and you
    >>>won't have any warranty issues if the installer decides to take a powder.

    >>
    >> Don't fucking start with that bullshit again.
    >>
    >> It will work JUST FUCKING FINE, he DOES NOT have to replace
    >>the 6 year old inside unit, and THERE AIN'T NO MAGIC ABOUT IT. It
    >>merely won't be a 'listed combination', it WILL NOT AFFECT HIS
    >>WARRANTY, and you really REALLY need to stop being such a fucking
    >>thief, trying to scare people with that nonsense.
    >>
    >>>If you have to cut a hole in the roof to get the air handler in or out,
    >>>then
    >>>it sure as hell doesn't comply with code and *NO* inspector will sign off
    >>>on
    >>>the work.

    >>
    >> Bullshit again. It's grandfathered in, NO inspection is
    >>required, and it can sit there JUST FINE.
    >>
    >> Learn to try LEGITIMATE sales pitches Steve, stop LYING to
    >>people to make an extra buck.
    >>
    >>
    >>>
    >>>> Lugnut
    >>>

    > Just my $0.04 worth............
    > Mix-matching a heat pump system CAN be done but it can really get you
    > in a mess at times.
    > If you replace the outdoor unit PLEASE try and AT LEAST replace the
    > indoor coil with a match to the outdoor unit. It can be a little bit
    > of an abortion at times and other times it goes in quite well.
    > Matching a piston to an indoor coil with different brand outdoor can
    > really SUCK sometimes. I had to mate a new Frigidaire air handler with
    > an existing builder grade York heat pump. Neither pistion recommended
    > worked worth a crap. I had to try two additional pistons (metering
    > devices) before I got the one that worked well. This can eat up
    > valuable time. I prefer matching a system when it comes to a heat
    > pump.
    > Bubba
    daytona°, Nov 26, 2006
    #10
  11. lugnut

    Jake Guest


    > Any ideas or pointers greatly appreciated.
    >
    > Lugnut


    It was me.... I'd check the start capacitor before you go any further.

    Jake
    Jake, Nov 26, 2006
    #11
  12. lugnut

    lp13-30 Guest

    According to our Trane distributor here, a 13 Seer HP cond unit will
    work on a 10 Seer AH, but it MUST have a TXV added. We have done a
    couple of them, and AFAIK, they are working OK. Of course they are not
    getting 13 Seer, but somoewhere between 10 and 13. However Noon is
    correct about the Rheem. For some reason, their HPs are about the least
    tolereant of mismatches of any on the market. A few years ago, I
    replaced an AH on a 4 ton 12 Seer Rheem. The new one was a 4 ton, and
    the dist. swore it was the right one for that unit. I fired it up and
    the cooling pressures, SH & SC were fine. Went inside and flipped it to
    heat, and the HPCO tripped before I got from the stat out to the unit.
    Played with the charge, pumped gas out into the rec jug until heating
    pressures were according to the chart, put it back into cool, and the
    low side was about 30 psi. Finally the dist admitted that they screwed
    up, and it was not the right AH for that unit, so they gave us the right
    one for the same price as they quoted for the smaller one and gave us a
    labor allowance. The new one was the biggest abortion I had ever seen--
    2 "M" coils stacked one on top of the other (upflow unit), but it worked
    fine in both cool and heat. Larry
    lp13-30, Nov 26, 2006
    #12
  13. lugnut

    lugnut Guest

    On Sat, 25 Nov 2006 17:17:15 -0500, "daytona°"
    <> wrote:

    >do you understand a multi-meter?


    I have a decent Fluke meter and can get hands on whatever I
    need to test or repair if I have to. My problem here has
    been the lack of difinitive values that I may look for. For
    that reason, I have only looked at the basics as I recalled
    from my days with the chiller units.

    Thanks
    Lugnut

    >
    >"lugnut" <> wrote in message
    >news:...
    >>I have a Trane XE1200 1.5 ton heat pump system in my bonus
    >> room that is my office. I am a pretty good DIY'r with some
    >> history of commercial refrigeration in the 60's. I'll
    >> probably get flamed but, I am tired of paying for service
    >> calls with no results. This is my first heat pump.
    >>
    >> A few days ago, it started using the heat strips constantly
    >> where it seldom had ever used the strips and the air handler
    >> runs constantly to keep up. OD temps in the 40's which
    >> should be easy for it. All of the lines inside the unit
    >> felt cool at about equal ambient temp. I pulled the
    >> diagrams and checked the pressures and found both pressures
    >> equal about where they should be for static ambient temps
    >> with R22. The thermostat is calling for heat and the
    >> contactor to the compressor is closed.
    >>
    >> I checked again yesterday with temps in the upper 60's in
    >> cool mode. Found the same - thermostat calling for cooling
    >> and the compressor contactor closed with voltage to the
    >> compressor feeds. Pressures are equal around 135psig.
    >> Could not detect compressor running. (I don't hear well)
    >> Voltage from contactor to compressor at 127 volts phase to
    >> ground and 248 volts phase to phase which tells me the
    >> compressor should be running. Checked for continuity in
    >> compressor with feeds disconnected from contactor and found
    >> both legs at infinity. The pressure sensor on the
    >> compressor is closed. If I am reading all of this
    >> correctly, the compressor is dead.
    >>
    >> The reason I am asking is that the unit was not cooling well
    >> in the fall. I had the service folks who installed the unit
    >> when we built on 2000 out several times to check it. Even
    >> though I was seeing what I believed to be low pressures,
    >> they informed me this was OK. When I first started having
    >> cooling problems, I was getting pressures like 150/82 on a
    >> 90 deg day with the unit running constantly. I have already
    >> spent over $500 trying to get this resolved with the service
    >> folks and the only thing they have done is test and add
    >> refrigerant. The pressure have never increased above about
    >> 180 on the high side although the low side was about 125 the
    >> last time I know the compressor was running while being
    >> checked. This is an R22 system. I think the compressor has
    >> been limping for some time. Am I missing something or is
    >> it time to replace at least the compressor? Is a 6 year old
    >> system even worth a compressor when install labor is
    >> considered?
    >>
    >> Any ideas or pointers greatly appreciated.
    >>
    >> Lugnut

    >
    lugnut, Nov 26, 2006
    #13
  14. lugnut

    lugnut Guest

    On Sun, 26 Nov 2006 00:55:29 GMT, Jake
    <> wrote:

    >
    >> Any ideas or pointers greatly appreciated.
    >>
    >> Lugnut

    >
    >It was me.... I'd check the start capacitor before you go any further.
    >
    >Jake



    I have wondered about the start cap on the unit but, have no
    way to test. I suppose I could just put one in since thay
    are relatively cheap. The condenser fan does runs as it
    should when the contactor closes. I cannot detect current
    to the compressor even though it has line voltage on each
    feed. There is a relay to the caps that is closing as it
    should. This is a Trane TWP018C100A3. I found the
    schematics inside the unit. I have seen a couple of
    compressor with bad start caps but, they always had a thump
    when energized and tripped the breaker after a few seconds.
    I am not getting that here - ammeter reads zilch when
    powered. Is there a simple way to test the caps short of
    burning a good screwdriver?

    Thanks
    Lugnut
    lugnut, Nov 26, 2006
    #14
  15. lugnut

    lugnut Guest

    On Sat, 25 Nov 2006 17:17:15 -0500, "daytona°"
    <> wrote:

    >do you understand a multi-meter?


    Just wanted to ask if by chance you are in the Daytona area
    and been there for a while. I had a friend there in the
    HVAC business for years. He disappeared after the divorce
    to some black hole in MA.

    Lugnut

    >
    >"lugnut" <> wrote in message
    >news:...
    >>I have a Trane XE1200 1.5 ton heat pump system in my bonus
    >> room that is my office. I am a pretty good DIY'r with some
    >> history of commercial refrigeration in the 60's. I'll
    >> probably get flamed but, I am tired of paying for service
    >> calls with no results. This is my first heat pump.
    >>
    >> A few days ago, it started using the heat strips constantly
    >> where it seldom had ever used the strips and the air handler
    >> runs constantly to keep up. OD temps in the 40's which
    >> should be easy for it. All of the lines inside the unit
    >> felt cool at about equal ambient temp. I pulled the
    >> diagrams and checked the pressures and found both pressures
    >> equal about where they should be for static ambient temps
    >> with R22. The thermostat is calling for heat and the
    >> contactor to the compressor is closed.
    >>
    >> I checked again yesterday with temps in the upper 60's in
    >> cool mode. Found the same - thermostat calling for cooling
    >> and the compressor contactor closed with voltage to the
    >> compressor feeds. Pressures are equal around 135psig.
    >> Could not detect compressor running. (I don't hear well)
    >> Voltage from contactor to compressor at 127 volts phase to
    >> ground and 248 volts phase to phase which tells me the
    >> compressor should be running. Checked for continuity in
    >> compressor with feeds disconnected from contactor and found
    >> both legs at infinity. The pressure sensor on the
    >> compressor is closed. If I am reading all of this
    >> correctly, the compressor is dead.
    >>
    >> The reason I am asking is that the unit was not cooling well
    >> in the fall. I had the service folks who installed the unit
    >> when we built on 2000 out several times to check it. Even
    >> though I was seeing what I believed to be low pressures,
    >> they informed me this was OK. When I first started having
    >> cooling problems, I was getting pressures like 150/82 on a
    >> 90 deg day with the unit running constantly. I have already
    >> spent over $500 trying to get this resolved with the service
    >> folks and the only thing they have done is test and add
    >> refrigerant. The pressure have never increased above about
    >> 180 on the high side although the low side was about 125 the
    >> last time I know the compressor was running while being
    >> checked. This is an R22 system. I think the compressor has
    >> been limping for some time. Am I missing something or is
    >> it time to replace at least the compressor? Is a 6 year old
    >> system even worth a compressor when install labor is
    >> considered?
    >>
    >> Any ideas or pointers greatly appreciated.
    >>
    >> Lugnut

    >
    lugnut, Nov 26, 2006
    #15
  16. lugnut

    lugnut Guest

    On Sat, 25 Nov 2006 19:28:11 -0500, Bubba
    <> wrote:

    >On Sat, 25 Nov 2006 23:01:54 GMT, .p.jm@see_my_sig_for_address.com
    >wrote:
    >
    >>On Sat, 25 Nov 2006 16:34:06 -0600, "Noon-Air" <>
    >>wrote:
    >>
    >>>
    >>><snipped>
    >>>>>
    >>>>>Compressor is probably toast.... but you got a Trane!!
    >>>>>
    >>>>
    >>>>
    >>>> Let's assume it is toast for the moment - or, at least, I
    >>>> think it is. Do you have a recommendation. My thoughts now
    >>>> are to go with a Lennox OD unit of similar specs since this
    >>>> one seemed to work well untill it didn't.
    >>>
    >>>Why go with a lesser quality piece of ...(Lennox) equipment??.... for a lot
    >>>less than a new system, you should be able to get the compressor replaced.
    >>>Just find a *COMPETENT* tech to do it.....and this doesn't necessarely mean
    >>>it has to be a Trane dealer.
    >>>
    >>>> I am not inclined
    >>>> to replace the air handler as it is in the attic and would
    >>>> require some structure or roof to be cut out to replace. I
    >>>> am sure as hell not in a mood to cut thru the roof.
    >>>
    >>>If the outside unit is replaced, then the inside unit needs to be replaced
    >>>also so they are matched and will work as they are supposed to, and you
    >>>won't have any warranty issues if the installer decides to take a powder.

    >>
    >> Don't fucking start with that bullshit again.
    >>
    >> It will work JUST FUCKING FINE, he DOES NOT have to replace
    >>the 6 year old inside unit, and THERE AIN'T NO MAGIC ABOUT IT. It
    >>merely won't be a 'listed combination', it WILL NOT AFFECT HIS
    >>WARRANTY, and you really REALLY need to stop being such a fucking
    >>thief, trying to scare people with that nonsense.
    >>
    >>>If you have to cut a hole in the roof to get the air handler in or out, then
    >>>it sure as hell doesn't comply with code and *NO* inspector will sign off on
    >>>the work.

    >>
    >> Bullshit again. It's grandfathered in, NO inspection is
    >>required, and it can sit there JUST FINE.
    >>
    >> Learn to try LEGITIMATE sales pitches Steve, stop LYING to
    >>people to make an extra buck.
    >>
    >>
    >>>
    >>>> Lugnut
    >>>

    >Just my $0.04 worth............
    >Mix-matching a heat pump system CAN be done but it can really get you
    >in a mess at times.
    >If you replace the outdoor unit PLEASE try and AT LEAST replace the
    >indoor coil with a match to the outdoor unit. It can be a little bit
    >of an abortion at times and other times it goes in quite well.
    >Matching a piston to an indoor coil with different brand outdoor can
    >really SUCK sometimes. I had to mate a new Frigidaire air handler with
    >an existing builder grade York heat pump. Neither pistion recommended
    >worked worth a crap. I had to try two additional pistons (metering
    >devices) before I got the one that worked well. This can eat up
    >valuable time. I prefer matching a system when it comes to a heat
    >pump.
    >Bubba



    If the unit gets replaced, it will be with a unit that I
    have satisfied myself that it is properly matched - not just
    sold something by a salesman. I am in a rural area where
    not many service people want to travel to when they can get
    more work than they can handle 10 miles closer to their
    office. At $100/hr plus mileage, this can get expensive
    real fast when they so far haven't given me a good reason to
    have confidence.

    Thanks
    Lugnut
    lugnut, Nov 26, 2006
    #16
  17. lugnut

    Jake Guest

    lugnut wrote:
    > On Sun, 26 Nov 2006 00:55:29 GMT, Jake
    > <> wrote:
    >
    >>> Any ideas or pointers greatly appreciated.
    >>>
    >>> Lugnut

    >> It was me.... I'd check the start capacitor before you go any further.
    >>
    >> Jake

    >
    >
    > I have wondered about the start cap on the unit but, have no
    > way to test. I suppose I could just put one in since thay
    > are relatively cheap. The condenser fan does runs as it
    > should when the contactor closes. I cannot detect current
    > to the compressor even though it has line voltage on each
    > feed. There is a relay to the caps that is closing as it
    > should. This is a Trane TWP018C100A3. I found the
    > schematics inside the unit. I have seen a couple of
    > compressor with bad start caps but, they always had a thump
    > when energized and tripped the breaker after a few seconds.
    > I am not getting that here - ammeter reads zilch when
    > powered. Is there a simple way to test the caps short of
    > burning a good screwdriver?
    >
    > Thanks
    > Lugnut


    With the compressor cold.... ie not tried to start in a while... check
    the resistance between the S and C.. and the R and C on the compressor.

    Do this with the unit disconnect OFF and you'll have to pull the little
    'flag' connectors off their various terminals.

    R and C is going to be between the two phases of your 240 circuit on the
    contactor load side. Again, you'll have to pull the connectors off
    because otherwise you'll read other stuff.

    S and C is going to be between one phase on the contactor load side and
    the capacitor lead from the start relay going to the compressor S terminal.

    You should get continuity between C AND both S/R.

    If you don't... an internal overload (or the compressor motor) has
    opened up and it'll never run again.

    I don't know what the labor rates are in your area... but I KNOW I'd
    consider a compressor changeout on one that young. I'm not an HVAC guy
    but a pretty competent electrician that's changed several. It's not a
    DIY job, though... unless you wanna spend some serious money on tools
    and training.

    Chances are.. there is something else wrong here, though. Get a good
    tech to take a look-see. You don't have to replace the indoor unit...
    but replacing the coil to match the condenser is always a good idea if
    you go that route.

    Boy... I'll bet I've made some folks mad here... but you seem to have a
    good grip on things.

    Good Luck.

    Jake
    Jake, Nov 26, 2006
    #17
  18. lugnut

    lugnut Guest

    On Sat, 25 Nov 2006 16:34:06 -0600, "Noon-Air"
    <> wrote:

    >
    ><snipped>
    >>>
    >>>Compressor is probably toast.... but you got a Trane!!
    >>>

    >>
    >>
    >> Let's assume it is toast for the moment - or, at least, I
    >> think it is. Do you have a recommendation. My thoughts now
    >> are to go with a Lennox OD unit of similar specs since this
    >> one seemed to work well untill it didn't.

    >
    >Why go with a lesser quality piece of ...(Lennox) equipment??.... for a lot
    >less than a new system, you should be able to get the compressor replaced.
    >Just find a *COMPETENT* tech to do it.....and this doesn't necessarely mean
    >it has to be a Trane dealer.


    The units I spec'd for my homes and offices before this were
    all Lennox with zero problems for more than 30 years. I
    decided to go with what was reputedly the Cadillac of the
    business this time and have had a bit of bad luck with both
    units. There is only one Trane dealer in this area and I am
    not inclined to call upon him based on my lack of joy in
    getting this problem resolved and being jockeyed past the
    warranty expiration for the compressor unit after it first
    exhibited signs of failure.

    From what I have been able to learn from limited reading,
    bad pressures in a heat pump are basically caused the same
    way as in straight a/c systems. The biggest twist in the
    pump system is the reversing valve. I can see how a leaking
    or stuck valve can result in low pressure and may (will)
    also eventually lead to compressor failure. This one
    appears to be electrically dead at this time. I believe the
    key to this has been in the pressures and temperatures
    during operation. If I do replace the compressor, how can I
    be sure the reversing valve was not reponsible and cost me
    more after the compressor is replaced to get it back online
    operating properly?? If I read this right, there is no way
    of testing the reversing valve other than the solenoid short
    of putting it back to work to see what happens - is this
    correct? I feel I have been given the mushroom treatment
    by the installer now for a year and a half. I do greatly
    appreciate any info I can get to help in making an
    intelligent decision on how best and who to get in repair or
    replacement of the unit. I hate someone trying piss in my
    face and tell me it's raining!!

    >
    >> I am not inclined
    >> to replace the air handler as it is in the attic and would
    >> require some structure or roof to be cut out to replace. I
    >> am sure as hell not in a mood to cut thru the roof.

    >
    >If the outside unit is replaced, then the inside unit needs to be replaced
    >also so they are matched and will work as they are supposed to, and you
    >won't have any warranty issues if the installer decides to take a powder.
    >If you have to cut a hole in the roof to get the air handler in or out, then
    >it sure as hell doesn't comply with code and *NO* inspector will sign off on
    >the work.


    This is not a job subject to inspection unless I am
    re-roofing the house. Nevertheless, the lineset and AH are
    not going to get replaced quite simply because of the
    structural work that would undoubtedly run into the
    thousands to pull it off in this installation. That part of
    the repair is not an option even if it works at less than
    optimum. If I have to do that, I will scrap the heat pump
    and install an attic furnace plus A/C unit. At this point,
    I am not impressed with the life expectancy of heat pumps or
    the availablility of competent repairmen in this area.

    Thanks
    Lugnut
    lugnut, Nov 26, 2006
    #18
  19. lugnut

    lugnut Guest

    On Sun, 26 Nov 2006 03:11:32 GMT, Jake
    <> wrote:

    >lugnut wrote:
    >> On Sun, 26 Nov 2006 00:55:29 GMT, Jake
    >> <> wrote:
    >>
    >>>> Any ideas or pointers greatly appreciated.
    >>>>
    >>>> Lugnut
    >>> It was me.... I'd check the start capacitor before you go any further.
    >>>
    >>> Jake

    >>
    >>
    >> I have wondered about the start cap on the unit but, have no
    >> way to test. I suppose I could just put one in since thay
    >> are relatively cheap. The condenser fan does runs as it
    >> should when the contactor closes. I cannot detect current
    >> to the compressor even though it has line voltage on each
    >> feed. There is a relay to the caps that is closing as it
    >> should. This is a Trane TWP018C100A3. I found the
    >> schematics inside the unit. I have seen a couple of
    >> compressor with bad start caps but, they always had a thump
    >> when energized and tripped the breaker after a few seconds.
    >> I am not getting that here - ammeter reads zilch when
    >> powered. Is there a simple way to test the caps short of
    >> burning a good screwdriver?
    >>
    >> Thanks
    >> Lugnut

    >
    >With the compressor cold.... ie not tried to start in a while... check
    >the resistance between the S and C.. and the R and C on the compressor.
    >
    >Do this with the unit disconnect OFF and you'll have to pull the little
    >'flag' connectors off their various terminals.
    >
    >R and C is going to be between the two phases of your 240 circuit on the
    >contactor load side. Again, you'll have to pull the connectors off
    >because otherwise you'll read other stuff.
    >
    >S and C is going to be between one phase on the contactor load side and
    >the capacitor lead from the start relay going to the compressor S terminal.
    >
    >You should get continuity between C AND both S/R.
    >
    >If you don't... an internal overload (or the compressor motor) has
    >opened up and it'll never run again.
    >
    >I don't know what the labor rates are in your area... but I KNOW I'd
    >consider a compressor changeout on one that young. I'm not an HVAC guy
    >but a pretty competent electrician that's changed several. It's not a
    >DIY job, though... unless you wanna spend some serious money on tools
    >and training.
    >
    >Chances are.. there is something else wrong here, though. Get a good
    >tech to take a look-see. You don't have to replace the indoor unit...
    >but replacing the coil to match the condenser is always a good idea if
    >you go that route.
    >
    >Boy... I'll bet I've made some folks mad here... but you seem to have a
    >good grip on things.
    >
    >Good Luck.
    >
    >Jake
    >



    Thanks, Jake. I am going to print this and give it a
    look/see tommorrow. It may take me a while to learn what I
    need to know on this but, I want to know WTH is wrong with
    it that the installers were unable to detect. They were
    just here a few weeks back for not cooling and gave it a
    clean bill of health. If the compressor has to be replaced,
    it won't be by me. I just want to make sure it is the
    compressor before I pull the trigger on a problem that could
    have been more reasonably repaired. I just got an e-mail
    from a shop about 100 miles away that has an exact model
    complete Trane outdoor unit for $695 loaded on my truck. He
    said he has a couple for a job that he ordered for a
    contract that fell thru a few years back and would still
    have full warranty since they had never been installed. He
    won't install for me because of the distance. I have no
    idea what a tech would charge to hookup and charge with no
    warranty responsibility. They may want to charge as it they
    had installed a complete system from their supplier in which
    case I will brush up my brazing skills that haven't been
    used in about 15 years. So far they are suggesting a
    compressor replacement is likely to be over $1200 with no
    guarantee that it is all that will be needed. I have no
    idea at the moment if those prices are real world right now.
    It may be a decent price for all I know.

    Thanks
    Lugnut
    lugnut, Nov 26, 2006
    #19
  20. Dear Lugnut,
    "I cannot detect" very often means that the writer does not own
    the equipment necessary so that he can detect the value. People who
    have the equipment often write "I read zero...."
    Reading farther, it appears you have an ammeter, and can use it.

    Which is it? Do you lack the equipment, or are you reading zero
    current to the compessor while it's getting 220 volts applied?

    --

    Christopher A. Young
    You can't shout down a troll.
    You have to starve them.
    ..

    "lugnut" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    are relatively cheap. The condenser fan does runs as it
    should when the contactor closes. I cannot detect current
    to the compressor even though it has line voltage on each
    feed.

    I am not getting that here - ammeter reads zilch when
    powered. Is there a simple way to test the caps short of
    burning a good screwdriver?

    Thanks
    Lugnut
    Stormin Mormon, Nov 26, 2006
    #20
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