Training a Virginia creeper

Discussion in 'UK DIY' started by Tim Downie, Jul 7, 2009.

  1. Tim Downie

    Tim Downie Guest

    Having sweated blood in removing a common ivy that was growing up the gable
    of our house, I'd now like to train a Virginia creeper up there instead.

    There's been a VC growing by the gable end for some time but it's never been
    able to get a good enough grip on the painted pebbledash to gain any height.
    What's the best thing to train it up? Trellis, plastic mesh, vine eyes &
    wire or something else?
     
    Tim Downie, Jul 7, 2009
    #1
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  2. In message <>, John
    <> writes
    >"Tim Downie" <> wrote in message
    >news:...
    >> Having sweated blood in removing a common ivy that was growing up the
    >> gable of our house, I'd now like to train a Virginia creeper up there
    >> instead.
    >>
    >> There's been a VC growing by the gable end for some time but it's never
    >> been able to get a good enough grip on the painted pebbledash to gain any
    >> height. What's the best thing to train it up? Trellis, plastic mesh, vine
    >> eyes & wire or something else?

    >
    >We have a VC on our (brick) gable end, it has been there for approx 12
    >years. I don't actually 'train it' but I get my ladders out 2 or 3 times a
    >year and cut off all the new growth to leave a neat square about 15 feet
    >wide and 20 foot high. This action also encourages the VC to fill in all
    >the gaps in the square, so at present I have a very full covering and in the
    >autumn it is absolutely beautiful when it changes colour. It is a right
    >PITA picking up all the leaves when they drop off!!! The amount of grab
    >that the 'attachers' on ours have I am surprised yours cannot get a grip on
    >the pebbledash.


    There a plant called the false Virginia creeper which looks very like a
    Virginia creeper, but which needs something more than a surface to climb
    (it's a tendril climber).
    >
    >I am in no way a gardener so this advice is worth the amount of money you
    >paid for it, but I pass a VC every day that the owners do not 'train' and it
    >is now covering the roof!
    >
    >HTH
    >
    >John
    >
    >


    --
    Stewart Robert Hinsley
     
    Stewart Robert Hinsley, Jul 7, 2009
    #2
    1. Advertising

  3. John wrote:
    >
    > We have a VC on our (brick) gable end, it has been there for approx 12
    > years. I don't actually 'train it' but I get my ladders out 2 or 3 times a
    > year and cut off all the new growth to leave a neat square about 15 feet
    > wide and 20 foot high.
    >


    Our house is engulfed inside several virginia creepers. We didn't so
    much buy a house as a plant ;-). It self clings to the stone walls and
    doesn't need any support or training. Like you I used to get the ladder
    out and trim it off high because it fouls the guttering. However, my
    policy now is just to use a pair of steps and cut it off every spring
    just above the ground floor windows. By the end of the year it is up to
    the guttering again! I don't know how old the plants are but they have
    trunks at the base two or three inches diameter. Looks lovely in Autumn
    as the leaves all turns red.

    --
    David in Normandy.
    To e-mail you must include the password FROG on the
    subject line, or it will be automatically deleted
    by a filter and not reach my inbox.
     
    David in Normandy, Jul 7, 2009
    #3
  4. Tim Downie

    NT Guest

    On Jul 7, 3:55 pm, "Tim Downie" <>
    wrote:

    > Having sweated blood in removing a common ivy that was growing up the gable
    > of our house, I'd now like to train a Virginia creeper up there instead.
    >
    > There's been a VC growing by the gable end for some time but it's never been
    > able to get a good enough grip on the painted pebbledash to gain any height.
    > What's the best thing to train it up?  Trellis, plastic mesh, vine eyes&
    > wire or something else?


    For climbers generally, vine eyes are traditional. A wire hanging from
    the loft soffits also works and is less work to fit, but best attach
    to the loft joists rather than the soffit.

    Rampant climbers can be kept withn the bounds of sanity by just
    cutting through the main stems where wanted, and not pulling anything
    off.


    NT
     
    NT, Jul 7, 2009
    #4
  5. On Jul 7, 7:03 pm, David in Normandy <>
    wrote:
    > John wrote:
    >
    > > We have a VC on our (brick) gable end, it has been there for approx 12
    > > years.  I don't actually 'train it' but I get my ladders out 2 or 3 times a
    > > year and cut off all the new growth to leave a neat square about 15 feet
    > > wide and 20 foot high.

    >
    > Our house is engulfed inside several virginia creepers. We didn't so
    > much buy a house as a plant ;-). It self clings to the stone walls and
    > doesn't need any support or training. Like you I used to get the ladder
    > out and trim it off high because it fouls the guttering. However, my
    > policy now is just to use a pair of steps and cut it off every spring
    > just above the ground floor windows. By the end of the year it is up to
    > the guttering again! I don't know how old the plants are but they have
    > trunks at the base two or three inches diameter. Looks lovely in Autumn
    > as the leaves all turns red.
    >
    > --
    > David in Normandy.  
    >    To e-mail you must include the password FROG on the
    >    subject line, or it will be automatically deleted
    >    by a filter and not reach my inbox.


    I have a self adhesive one with little suckers! Vetchi something or
    other????

    Judith
     
    Judith in France, Jul 7, 2009
    #5
  6. Judith in France wrote:

    >
    > I have a self adhesive one with little suckers! Vetchi something or
    > other????
    >
    > Judith


    Mine has little suckers too where the tendrils attach to the wall. I
    don't know the variety though.

    --
    David in Normandy.
    To e-mail you must include the password FROG on the
    subject line, or it will be automatically deleted
    by a filter and not reach my inbox.
     
    David in Normandy, Jul 7, 2009
    #6
  7. In article <>,
    says...
    > Having sweated blood in removing a common ivy that was growing up the gable
    > of our house, I'd now like to train a Virginia creeper up there instead.
    >
    > There's been a VC growing by the gable end for some time but it's never been
    > able to get a good enough grip on the painted pebbledash to gain any height.
    > What's the best thing to train it up? Trellis, plastic mesh, vine eyes &
    > wire or something else?
    >
    >

    If you have true Virginia creeper (parthenocissus quinquefolia) then it
    will require some help to stay up there as it becomes woody and heavy and
    will rip off the wall, a few wires and vine eyes should be enough. If
    however you have what is often called wrongly virginia creeper in the
    UK but is what the americans call Bostan Ivy (Parthenocissus
    tricuspidata) then it should stay up on its own. They are easy to tell
    apart and the clue is in the latin names quinquefolia = 5 leafleted
    leaves, tricuspidata 3 lobed leaves. other than that they do similar
    autumn colour
    --
    Charlie Pridham, Gardening in Cornwall
    www.roselandhouse.co.uk
    Holders of national collections of Clematis viticella cultivars and
    Lapageria rosea
     
    Charlie Pridham, Jul 8, 2009
    #7
  8. Tim Downie

    Tim Downie Guest

    Charlie Pridham wrote:
    > In article <>,
    > says...
    >> Having sweated blood in removing a common ivy that was growing up
    >> the gable of our house, I'd now like to train a Virginia creeper up
    >> there instead.
    >>
    >> There's been a VC growing by the gable end for some time but it's
    >> never been able to get a good enough grip on the painted pebbledash
    >> to gain any height. What's the best thing to train it up? Trellis,
    >> plastic mesh, vine eyes & wire or something else?
    >>
    >>

    > If you have true Virginia creeper (parthenocissus quinquefolia) then
    > it will require some help to stay up there as it becomes woody and
    > heavy and will rip off the wall, a few wires and vine eyes should be
    > enough. If however you have what is often called wrongly virginia
    > creeper in the
    > UK but is what the americans call Bostan Ivy (Parthenocissus
    > tricuspidata) then it should stay up on its own. They are easy to tell
    > apart and the clue is in the latin names quinquefolia = 5 leafleted
    > leaves, tricuspidata 3 lobed leaves. other than that they do similar
    > autumn colour


    Hmm.. I think mine must be the quinquefolia. The wall has been newly
    cleaned & painted and I suppose there's no harm in waiting to see if it will
    get a grip on the new surface but if mine is the true VC then from what
    you've said, I will need wires.

    Thanks for the info.

    Tim
     
    Tim Downie, Jul 8, 2009
    #8
  9. In message <>, Charlie
    Pridham <> writes
    >In article <>,
    > says...
    >> Having sweated blood in removing a common ivy that was growing up the gable
    >> of our house, I'd now like to train a Virginia creeper up there instead.
    >>
    >> There's been a VC growing by the gable end for some time but it's never been
    >> able to get a good enough grip on the painted pebbledash to gain any height.
    >> What's the best thing to train it up? Trellis, plastic mesh, vine eyes &
    >> wire or something else?
    >>
    >>

    >If you have true Virginia creeper (parthenocissus quinquefolia) then it
    >will require some help to stay up there as it becomes woody and heavy and
    >will rip off the wall, a few wires and vine eyes should be enough. If
    >however you have what is often called wrongly virginia creeper in the
    >UK but is what the americans call Bostan Ivy (Parthenocissus
    >tricuspidata) then it should stay up on its own. They are easy to tell
    >apart and the clue is in the latin names quinquefolia = 5 leafleted
    >leaves, tricuspidata 3 lobed leaves. other than that they do similar
    >autumn colour


    From the failure to climb I suspect that he has Parthenocissus vitacea,
    which differs from Parthenocissus quinquefolia in lacking the adhesive
    disks.
    --
    Stewart Robert Hinsley
     
    Stewart Robert Hinsley, Jul 8, 2009
    #9
  10. In article <>, {$news$}@meden.demon.co.uk
    says...
    > In message <>, Charlie
    > Pridham <> writes
    > >In article <>,
    > > says...
    > >> Having sweated blood in removing a common ivy that was growing up the gable
    > >> of our house, I'd now like to train a Virginia creeper up there instead.
    > >>
    > >> There's been a VC growing by the gable end for some time but it's never been
    > >> able to get a good enough grip on the painted pebbledash to gain any height.
    > >> What's the best thing to train it up? Trellis, plastic mesh, vine eyes &
    > >> wire or something else?
    > >>
    > >>

    > >If you have true Virginia creeper (parthenocissus quinquefolia) then it
    > >will require some help to stay up there as it becomes woody and heavy and
    > >will rip off the wall, a few wires and vine eyes should be enough. If
    > >however you have what is often called wrongly virginia creeper in the
    > >UK but is what the americans call Bostan Ivy (Parthenocissus
    > >tricuspidata) then it should stay up on its own. They are easy to tell
    > >apart and the clue is in the latin names quinquefolia = 5 leafleted
    > >leaves, tricuspidata 3 lobed leaves. other than that they do similar
    > >autumn colour

    >
    > From the failure to climb I suspect that he has Parthenocissus vitacea,
    > which differs from Parthenocissus quinquefolia in lacking the adhesive
    > disks.
    >

    Does that have a synonym Stewart? its not a name I have every come
    across, although Parthenocissus quinquefolia falling off smooth walls I
    hear about all the time!
    --
    Charlie Pridham, Gardening in Cornwall
    www.roselandhouse.co.uk
    Holders of national collections of Clematis viticella cultivars and
    Lapageria rosea
     
    Charlie Pridham, Jul 8, 2009
    #10
  11. In article <>,
    says...
    >
    > "Charlie Pridham" <> wrote in message
    > news:...
    > > If you have true Virginia creeper (parthenocissus quinquefolia) then it
    > > will require some help to stay up there as it becomes woody and heavy and
    > > will rip off the wall, a few wires and vine eyes should be enough. If
    > > however you have what is often called wrongly virginia creeper in the
    > > UK but is what the americans call Bostan Ivy (Parthenocissus
    > > tricuspidata) then it should stay up on its own. They are easy to tell
    > > apart and the clue is in the latin names quinquefolia = 5 leafleted
    > > leaves, tricuspidata 3 lobed leaves. other than that they do similar
    > > autumn colour

    >
    > I have just been to look at my plant, it does indeed have three pointed
    > leaves. As I said in my original reply I am not a gardener. Somebody told
    > me years ago that it was a VC. The same person also told me it will not do
    > any harm to my brickwork, is this also incorrect? I can only describe the
    > 'attachers' as like very tiny hands with fat ended fingers.
    >
    > Cheers
    >
    > John
    >
    >
    >

    You have by the sound of it Parthenocissus tricuspidata AKA Bostan Ivy,
    the tendrills have adesive pads on the ends, they only work once though
    so only new growth will attach, secure all the old growth so its weight
    in the wind will not dislodge the new stuff as it starts to attach, it
    wont take it long and it forms a good cover.
    It will not harm brick work, and so long as you prevent it getting under
    the roof is well behaved
    --
    Charlie Pridham, Gardening in Cornwall
    www.roselandhouse.co.uk
    Holders of national collections of Clematis viticella cultivars and
    Lapageria rosea
     
    Charlie Pridham, Jul 8, 2009
    #11
  12. In message <>, Charlie
    Pridham <> writes
    >In article <>, {$news$}@meden.demon.co.uk
    >says...
    >> In message <>, Charlie
    >> Pridham <> writes
    >> >In article <>,
    >> > says...
    >> >> Having sweated blood in removing a common ivy that was growing up
    >> >>the gable
    >> >> of our house, I'd now like to train a Virginia creeper up there instead.
    >> >>
    >> >> There's been a VC growing by the gable end for some time but it's
    >> >>never been
    >> >> able to get a good enough grip on the painted pebbledash to gain
    >> >>any height.
    >> >> What's the best thing to train it up? Trellis, plastic mesh, vine eyes &
    >> >> wire or something else?
    >> >>
    >> >>
    >> >If you have true Virginia creeper (parthenocissus quinquefolia) then it
    >> >will require some help to stay up there as it becomes woody and heavy and
    >> >will rip off the wall, a few wires and vine eyes should be enough. If
    >> >however you have what is often called wrongly virginia creeper in the
    >> >UK but is what the americans call Bostan Ivy (Parthenocissus
    >> >tricuspidata) then it should stay up on its own. They are easy to tell
    >> >apart and the clue is in the latin names quinquefolia = 5 leafleted
    >> >leaves, tricuspidata 3 lobed leaves. other than that they do similar
    >> >autumn colour

    >>
    >> From the failure to climb I suspect that he has Parthenocissus vitacea,
    >> which differs from Parthenocissus quinquefolia in lacking the adhesive
    >> disks.
    >>

    >Does that have a synonym Stewart? its not a name I have every come
    >across, although Parthenocissus quinquefolia falling off smooth walls I
    >hear about all the time!


    Parthenocissus vitacea syn inserta

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parthenocissus_vitacea

    But we now know that he has P. tricuspidata.
    --
    Stewart Robert Hinsley
     
    Stewart Robert Hinsley, Jul 8, 2009
    #12
  13. Tim Downie

    Tim Downie Guest

    Stewart Robert Hinsley wrote:
    > In message <>, Charlie
    > Pridham <> writes
    >> In article <>,
    >> says...
    >>> Having sweated blood in removing a common ivy that was growing up
    >>> the gable of our house, I'd now like to train a Virginia creeper up
    >>> there instead. There's been a VC growing by the gable end for some time
    >>> but it's
    >>> never been able to get a good enough grip on the painted pebbledash
    >>> to gain any height. What's the best thing to train it up? Trellis,
    >>> plastic mesh, vine eyes & wire or something else?
    >>>
    >>>

    >> If you have true Virginia creeper (parthenocissus quinquefolia) then
    >> it will require some help to stay up there as it becomes woody and
    >> heavy and will rip off the wall, a few wires and vine eyes should be
    >> enough. If however you have what is often called wrongly virginia
    >> creeper in the UK but is what the americans call Bostan Ivy
    >> (Parthenocissus
    >> tricuspidata) then it should stay up on its own. They are easy to
    >> tell apart and the clue is in the latin names quinquefolia = 5
    >> leafleted leaves, tricuspidata 3 lobed leaves. other than that they
    >> do similar autumn colour

    >
    > From the failure to climb I suspect that he has Parthenocissus
    > vitacea, which differs from Parthenocissus quinquefolia in lacking
    > the adhesive disks.


    No, it has the adhesive disks, they just didn't seem to either stick well or
    be able to bear the weight of the foliage.

    Tim
     
    Tim Downie, Jul 8, 2009
    #13
  14. In article <>, {$news$}@meden.demon.co.uk
    says...
    > In message <>, Charlie
    > Pridham <> writes
    > >In article <>, {$news$}@meden.demon.co.uk
    > >says...
    > >> In message <>, Charlie
    > >> Pridham <> writes
    > >> >In article <>,
    > >> > says...
    > >> >> Having sweated blood in removing a common ivy that was growing up
    > >> >>the gable
    > >> >> of our house, I'd now like to train a Virginia creeper up there instead.
    > >> >>
    > >> >> There's been a VC growing by the gable end for some time but it's
    > >> >>never been
    > >> >> able to get a good enough grip on the painted pebbledash to gain
    > >> >>any height.
    > >> >> What's the best thing to train it up? Trellis, plastic mesh, vine eyes &
    > >> >> wire or something else?
    > >> >>
    > >> >>
    > >> >If you have true Virginia creeper (parthenocissus quinquefolia) then it
    > >> >will require some help to stay up there as it becomes woody and heavy and
    > >> >will rip off the wall, a few wires and vine eyes should be enough. If
    > >> >however you have what is often called wrongly virginia creeper in the
    > >> >UK but is what the americans call Bostan Ivy (Parthenocissus
    > >> >tricuspidata) then it should stay up on its own. They are easy to tell
    > >> >apart and the clue is in the latin names quinquefolia = 5 leafleted
    > >> >leaves, tricuspidata 3 lobed leaves. other than that they do similar
    > >> >autumn colour
    > >>
    > >> From the failure to climb I suspect that he has Parthenocissus vitacea,
    > >> which differs from Parthenocissus quinquefolia in lacking the adhesive
    > >> disks.
    > >>

    > >Does that have a synonym Stewart? its not a name I have every come
    > >across, although Parthenocissus quinquefolia falling off smooth walls I
    > >hear about all the time!

    >
    > Parthenocissus vitacea syn inserta
    >
    > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parthenocissus_vitacea
    >
    > But we now know that he has P. tricuspidata.
    >

    True, but the other plant is more interesting cos I have never seen
    one!!!
    --
    Charlie Pridham, Gardening in Cornwall
    www.roselandhouse.co.uk
    Holders of national collections of Clematis viticella cultivars and
    Lapageria rosea
     
    Charlie Pridham, Jul 8, 2009
    #14
  15. In message <>, Charlie
    Pridham <> writes
    >In article <>, {$news$}@meden.demon.co.uk
    >says...
    >> In message <>, Charlie
    >> Pridham <> writes
    >> >In article <>, {$news$}@meden.demon.co.uk
    >> >says...
    >> >> In message <>, Charlie
    >> >> Pridham <> writes
    >> >> >In article <>,
    >> >> > says...
    >> >> >> Having sweated blood in removing a common ivy that was growing up
    >> >> >>the gable
    >> >> >> of our house, I'd now like to train a Virginia creeper up there
    >> >> >>instead.
    >> >> >>
    >> >> >> There's been a VC growing by the gable end for some time but it's
    >> >> >>never been
    >> >> >> able to get a good enough grip on the painted pebbledash to gain
    >> >> >>any height.
    >> >> >> What's the best thing to train it up? Trellis, plastic mesh,
    >> >> >>eyes &
    >> >> >> wire or something else?
    >> >> >>
    >> >> >>
    >> >> >If you have true Virginia creeper (parthenocissus quinquefolia) then it
    >> >> >will require some help to stay up there as it becomes woody and heavy and
    >> >> >will rip off the wall, a few wires and vine eyes should be enough. If
    >> >> >however you have what is often called wrongly virginia creeper in the
    >> >> >UK but is what the americans call Bostan Ivy (Parthenocissus
    >> >> >tricuspidata) then it should stay up on its own. They are easy to tell
    >> >> >apart and the clue is in the latin names quinquefolia = 5 leafleted
    >> >> >leaves, tricuspidata 3 lobed leaves. other than that they do similar
    >> >> >autumn colour
    >> >>
    >> >> From the failure to climb I suspect that he has Parthenocissus vitacea,
    >> >> which differs from Parthenocissus quinquefolia in lacking the adhesive
    >> >> disks.
    >> >>
    >> >Does that have a synonym Stewart? its not a name I have every come
    >> >across, although Parthenocissus quinquefolia falling off smooth walls I
    >> >hear about all the time!

    >>
    >> Parthenocissus vitacea syn inserta
    >>
    >> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parthenocissus_vitacea
    >>
    >> But we now know that he has P. tricuspidata.
    >>

    >True, but the other plant is more interesting cos I have never seen
    >one!!!


    There appear to be more records of false Virginia creeper from the wild
    in the UK than of Virginia creeper. There may be one half a mile away
    from me - but I haven't got an undoubted Virginia creeper to compare it
    with.
    --
    Stewart Robert Hinsley
     
    Stewart Robert Hinsley, Jul 8, 2009
    #15
  16. Tim Downie wrote:
    > Having sweated blood in removing a common ivy that was growing up the
    > gable of our house, I'd now like to train a Virginia creeper up there
    > instead.
    > There's been a VC growing by the gable end for some time but it's
    > never been able to get a good enough grip on the painted pebbledash
    > to gain any height. What's the best thing to train it up? Trellis,
    > plastic mesh, vine eyes & wire or something else?


    Gripfill.


    --
    Dave - The Medway Handyman
    www.medwayhandyman.co.uk
     
    The Medway Handyman, Jul 8, 2009
    #16
  17. Tim Downie

    Huge Guest

    On 2009-07-08, Charlie Pridham <> wrote:
    > In article <>,
    > says...
    >> Having sweated blood in removing a common ivy that was growing up the gable
    >> of our house, I'd now like to train a Virginia creeper up there instead.
    >>
    >> There's been a VC growing by the gable end for some time but it's never been
    >> able to get a good enough grip on the painted pebbledash to gain any height.
    >> What's the best thing to train it up? Trellis, plastic mesh, vine eyes &
    >> wire or something else?
    >>
    >>

    > If you have true Virginia creeper (parthenocissus quinquefolia) then it
    > will require some help to stay up there as it becomes woody and heavy and
    > will rip off the wall, a few wires and vine eyes should be enough. If
    > however you have what is often called wrongly virginia creeper in the
    > UK but is what the americans call Bostan Ivy (Parthenocissus
    > tricuspidata) then it should stay up on its own. They are easy to tell
    > apart and the clue is in the latin names quinquefolia = 5 leafleted
    > leaves, tricuspidata 3 lobed leaves. other than that they do similar
    > autumn colour


    Thank you! Now I know why when we bought 'another' VC, it looked different and
    climbed nothing like as well as what we thought was VC that we already
    had. Because what we already had is BI, not VC...

    --
    http://hyperangry.blogspot.com/
    [email me, if you must, at huge {at} huge (dot) org <dot> uk]
     
    Huge, Jul 9, 2009
    #17
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