Standing Seam vs. Lap Seam

Discussion in 'Building Construction' started by ecarecar, Oct 25, 2006.

  1. ecarecar

    ecarecar Guest

    I have a small, low-slope metal roof of about 300 square feet.
    What are the advantages and disadvantages of a standing seam
    roof versus a lap seam?
     
    ecarecar, Oct 25, 2006
    #1
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  2. ecarecar

    Bob Morrison Guest

    In a previous post ecarecar wrote...
    > I have a small, low-slope metal roof of about 300 square feet.
    > What are the advantages and disadvantages of a standing seam
    > roof versus a lap seam?
    >


    Standing seam has no exposed fasteners and should be considered a
    permanent roof if properly installed. Laps seams have gasketed fasteners
    that can leak over time and this causes rusting of the steel sheets.

    Go with standing seam!

    --
    Bob Morrison, PE, SE
    R L Morrison Engineering Co
    Structural & Civil Engineering
    Poulsbo WA
    bob at rlmorrisonengr dot com
     
    Bob Morrison, Oct 25, 2006
    #2
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  3. ecarecar

    ecarecar Guest

    You can use non-gasketed fasteners and solder them over.

    What about wicking around the seams of the standing seams?

    Bob Morrison wrote:

    >In a previous post ecarecar wrote...
    >
    >
    >>I have a small, low-slope metal roof of about 300 square feet.
    >>What are the advantages and disadvantages of a standing seam
    >>roof versus a lap seam?
    >>
    >>
    >>

    >
    >Standing seam has no exposed fasteners and should be considered a
    >permanent roof if properly installed. Laps seams have gasketed fasteners
    >that can leak over time and this causes rusting of the steel sheets.
    >
    >Go with standing seam!
    >
    >
    >
     
    ecarecar, Oct 26, 2006
    #3
  4. ecarecar

    Bob Morrison Guest

    In a previous post ecarecar wrote...
    > You can use non-gasketed fasteners and solder them over.
    >


    The idea of soldering the top hundreds of fasteners doesn't seem very
    practical. Also, the soldering process will most likely damage the baked-
    on finish.

    > What about wicking around the seams of the standing seams?


    Never heard of it happening, especially if it is a field rolled seam. But
    even snap-lok type standing seam roofs work pretty well.

    --
    Bob Morrison, PE, SE
    R L Morrison Engineering Co
    Structural & Civil Engineering
    Poulsbo WA
    bob at rlmorrisonengr dot com
     
    Bob Morrison, Oct 26, 2006
    #4
  5. ecarecar

    Dan Deckert Guest

    Standing seam if you can afford it.
    NO SOLDERING ON EXPOSED
    FASTENERS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    Dan



    "ecarecar" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > I have a small, low-slope metal roof of about 300 square feet.
    > What are the advantages and disadvantages of a standing seam
    > roof versus a lap seam?
     
    Dan Deckert, Oct 28, 2006
    #5
  6. ecarecar

    Tim Mulvey Guest

    "ecarecar" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > You can use non-gasketed fasteners and solder them over.
    >
    > What about wicking around the seams of the standing seams?


    I've installed panels from American Buildings, Metallic, and Pac-Clad. The
    female has a bead of factory applied butyl sealant that prevents wicking at
    the seams. Panels from American can be installed and warrantied on slopes as
    low as 1/2" : 12".

    Tim Mulvey
     
    Tim Mulvey, Oct 28, 2006
    #6
  7. ecarecar

    Bob Morrison Guest

    In a previous post Dan Deckert wrote...
    > Standing seam if you can afford it.
    > NO SOLDERING ON EXPOSED
    > FASTENERS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    > !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    >


    Dan:

    I agree absolutely! Soldering of fasteners does not seem like one of the
    better thought out ideas.

    --
    Bob Morrison, PE, SE
    R L Morrison Engineering Co
    Structural & Civil Engineering
    Poulsbo WA
    bob at rlmorrisonengr dot com
     
    Bob Morrison, Oct 30, 2006
    #7
  8. ecarecar

    Dan Deckert Guest

    "Bob Morrison" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > In a previous post Dan Deckert wrote...
    > > Standing seam if you can afford it.
    > > NO SOLDERING ON EXPOSED
    > >

    FASTENERS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    > > !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    > >

    >
    > Dan:
    >
    > I agree absolutely! Soldering of fasteners does not seem like one of the
    > better thought out ideas.
    >
    > --
    > Bob Morrison, PE, SE
    > R L Morrison Engineering Co
    > Structural & Civil Engineering
    > Poulsbo WA
    > bob at rlmorrisonengr dot com


    The OP made some mention of soldering. I've NEVER HEARD OF SUCH in 30 yrs.
    of putting on metal roofs. I 'suppose' it might apply to 'some type' of
    copper roof but it seems wierd to me. The new Kynar paints over galvalume
    substrate would never allow adhesion anyway much less with the Kynar painted
    zinc chromate srews with neoprene washers.

    The newer SSR's with factory installed mastic will prevent wicking if the
    SSR is applied correctly. Even better are SSR's with a mechanical seamer run
    down them to roll & fold the seam. Damn near bullet proof. I have, however,
    installed an SSR roof with a seamer and had leaks. It was because the
    factory had failed to apply enough mastic to seal the lap. Interestingly
    enough it was a Butler Bldg. of whose product (roofs anyway) I consider one
    of the best.

    Dan
     
    Dan Deckert, Oct 31, 2006
    #8
  9. ecarecar

    RicodJour Guest

    Dan Deckert wrote:
    >
    > The OP made some mention of soldering. I've NEVER HEARD OF SUCH in 30 yrs.
    > of putting on metal roofs. I 'suppose' it might apply to 'some type' of
    > copper roof but it seems wierd to me.


    It is possible to directly solder copper nails on a copper roof, but
    it's a bit of a hack. The preferred way to achieve that end is to nail
    through a copper clip, fold the clip over the top of the nail and
    solder the perimeter of the clip.

    R
     
    RicodJour, Oct 31, 2006
    #9
  10. ecarecar

    ecarecar Guest

    Bob Morrison wrote:

    >In a previous post Dan Deckert wrote...
    >
    >
    >>Standing seam if you can afford it.
    >>NO SOLDERING ON EXPOSED
    >>FASTENERS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    >>!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    >>
    >>
    >>

    >
    >Dan:
    >
    >I agree absolutely! Soldering of fasteners does not seem like one of the
    >better thought out ideas.
    >
    >
    >

    Well, you should think about it.
     
    ecarecar, Nov 1, 2006
    #10
  11. ecarecar

    ecarecar Guest

    Dan Deckert wrote:

    >"Bob Morrison" <> wrote in message
    >news:...
    >
    >
    >>In a previous post Dan Deckert wrote...
    >>
    >>
    >>>Standing seam if you can afford it.
    >>>NO SOLDERING ON EXPOSED
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>

    >FASTENERS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    >
    >
    >>>!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>

    >>Dan:
    >>
    >>I agree absolutely! Soldering of fasteners does not seem like one of the
    >>better thought out ideas.
    >>
    >>--
    >>Bob Morrison, PE, SE
    >>R L Morrison Engineering Co
    >>Structural & Civil Engineering
    >>Poulsbo WA
    >>bob at rlmorrisonengr dot com
    >>
    >>

    >
    >The OP made some mention of soldering. I've NEVER HEARD OF SUCH in 30 yrs.
    >of putting on metal roofs.
    >

    There's your problem. If you had 60 years of putting on metal roof, you
    would
    have heard of it.

    >I 'suppose' it might apply to 'some type' of
    >copper roof but it seems wierd to me. The new Kynar paints over galvalume
    >substrate would never allow adhesion anyway much less with the Kynar painted
    >zinc chromate srews with neoprene washers.
    >
    >
    >
     
    ecarecar, Nov 1, 2006
    #11
  12. ecarecar

    Dan Deckert Guest

    Seems as though ecarecar is in severe contrast to our opinions and
    experience, not to mention ADVERSLY CONTRASTED.................LOL Ya
    suppose a 78 yr old guy is ticked off here? 60 yrs. of roofing and 18 yrs.
    to be old enuf 2 do the work????
    Dan


    "RicodJour" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > Dan Deckert wrote:
    > >
    > > The OP made some mention of soldering. I've NEVER HEARD OF SUCH in 30

    yrs.
    > > of putting on metal roofs. I 'suppose' it might apply to 'some type' of
    > > copper roof but it seems wierd to me.

    >
    > It is possible to directly solder copper nails on a copper roof, but
    > it's a bit of a hack. The preferred way to achieve that end is to nail
    > through a copper clip, fold the clip over the top of the nail and
    > solder the perimeter of the clip.
    >
    > R
    >
     
    Dan Deckert, Nov 1, 2006
    #12
  13. ecarecar

    RicodJour Guest

    Dan Deckert wrote:
    > Seems as though ecarecar is in severe contrast to our opinions and
    > experience, not to mention ADVERSLY CONTRASTED.................LOL Ya
    > suppose a 78 yr old guy is ticked off here? 60 yrs. of roofing and 18 yrs.
    > to be old enuf 2 do the work????


    Which makes this more curious:
    http://tinyurl.com/yzjgce

    I'd like to hear his reasoning and procedure for directly soldering the
    fastener.

    R
     
    RicodJour, Nov 1, 2006
    #13
  14. ecarecar

    Bob Morrison Guest

    In a previous post ecarecar wrote...
    > Well, you should think about it.
    >


    Okay, I thought about it for about 5 seconds and have come to the
    conclusion that soldering roofing fasteners on a steel roof is one of the
    dumbest ideas I have ever heard of.

    --
    Bob Morrison, PE, SE
    R L Morrison Engineering Co
    Structural & Civil Engineering
    Poulsbo WA
    bob at rlmorrisonengr dot com
     
    Bob Morrison, Nov 1, 2006
    #14
  15. ecarecar

    ecarecar Guest

    Bob Morrison wrote:

    >In a previous post ecarecar wrote...
    >
    >
    >>Well, you should think about it.
    >>
    >>
    >>

    >
    >Okay, I thought about it for about 5 seconds and have come to the
    >conclusion that soldering roofing fasteners on a steel roof is one of the
    >dumbest ideas I have ever heard of.
    >
    >
    >

    No. That's all wrong.

    The process comprises soldering sheet stainless steel together then driving
    nails in to hold it in place and soldering the nails. It produces an
    excellent
    roof.
     
    ecarecar, Nov 1, 2006
    #15
  16. ecarecar

    Bob Morrison Guest

    In a previous post ecarecar wrote...
    > No. That's all wrong.
    >
    > The process comprises soldering sheet stainless steel together then driving
    > nails in to hold it in place and soldering the nails. It produces an
    > excellent
    > roof.
    >


    That may be, but one doesn't need to go to that much work to get an
    excellent roof. Not to mention, most steel roofs these days have a baked
    on finish that would make soldering them together virtually impossible
    without ruining the finish.

    A standing seam roof is only marginally more expensive (25% or so) than a
    conventional lap seam roof. This seems like a small price to pay for what
    is essentially a permanent roof.

    As others have pointed out, a field rolled seam is usually best, but snap
    lock seams work pretty well too for residential applications over a solid
    sheathing substrate.

    --
    Bob Morrison, PE, SE
    R L Morrison Engineering Co
    Structural & Civil Engineering
    Poulsbo WA
    bob at rlmorrisonengr dot com
     
    Bob Morrison, Nov 1, 2006
    #16
  17. ecarecar

    RicodJour Guest

    ecarecar wrote:
    >
    > The process comprises soldering sheet stainless steel together then driving
    > nails in to hold it in place and soldering the nails. It produces an
    > excellent roof.


    Okay, now you've lost me. I've done a fair bit of copper and
    lead-coated copper roofing. When sections are seamed and soldered, all
    of the nails and copper clips/cleats are concealed. There are few if
    any exposed fasteners. Why would you have exposed fasteners,
    essentially creating a new metal roofing technique, when the existing
    copper roofing techniques have centuries of performance standing behind
    them? You obviously could do the same thing with stainless steel.

    The concealed clips/cleats are what allows the metal roofing to move
    with thermal expansion/contraction. By nailing it down directly you're
    just building in weak points in the roofing. If your soldering job is
    impeccable and the solder doesn't fail, the thermal expansion cycle
    will elongate the nail hole and the nail will lose a significant amount
    of its holding power. This is a critical flaw in high wind areas. The
    roof will fail at those points, it's just a question of when.

    The fact that in your experience you haven't had any failures doesn't
    mean much in this instance. A stainless or lead-coated copper roof
    should outlast you, your children and their children if done correctly.
    It's like being in the fiberglass roofing business and saying that
    you've been installing them for 4 years, so there's no problem with
    your installation. Doesn't fly.

    R
     
    RicodJour, Nov 1, 2006
    #17
  18. ecarecar

    RicodJour Guest

    Dan Deckert wrote:
    > Seems as though ecarecar is in severe contrast to our opinions and
    > experience, not to mention ADVERSLY CONTRASTED.................LOL Ya
    > suppose a 78 yr old guy is ticked off here? 60 yrs. of roofing and 18 yrs.
    > to be old enuf 2 do the work????


    It's our own fault. I didn't keep track of the posting history. I
    thought he was weighint in with some expertise on the OP's question, so
    I replied. I hadn't noticed that he is the OP.

    Gee, maybe we were "set up" - maybe he's checking to see if we know
    what we're talking about. So either he's a troll, has trollish
    tendencies, or, from the comments, has no basis to determine if we do
    know what we are talking about or not.

    R
     
    RicodJour, Nov 1, 2006
    #18
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