splicing a spliced cable line

Discussion in 'Home Repair' started by kellyj00@gmail.com, Nov 29, 2006.

  1. Guest

    I have a three way splice from the cable company, and would like to
    splice it yet again for a fourth television. Should I go out and buy
    a 4-way splice, or can I just hook a two-way on to an existing run?

    Does anyone know what the biggest splice I can use is before i start to
    lose signal quality to a noticable level? We're not too picky about
    signal as we don't have Hi-definition or anything, but it's still gotta
    be watchable.
     
    , Nov 29, 2006
    #1
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  2. <> wrote in message
    news:...
    >I have a three way splice from the cable company, and would like to
    > splice it yet again for a fourth television. Should I go out and buy
    > a 4-way splice, or can I just hook a two-way on to an existing run?
    >
    > Does anyone know what the biggest splice I can use is before i start to
    > lose signal quality to a noticable level? We're not too picky about
    > signal as we don't have Hi-definition or anything, but it's still gotta
    > be watchable.
    >


    You don't splice cable line. You connect separate pieces using the
    connectors. If you need to SPLIT one, you use a splitter box.
     
    JoeSpareBedroom, Nov 29, 2006
    #2
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  3. <> wrote in message
    news:...
    >I have a three way splice from the cable company, and would like to
    > splice it yet again for a fourth television. Should I go out and buy
    > a 4-way splice, or can I just hook a two-way on to an existing run?
    >
    > Does anyone know what the biggest splice I can use is before i start to
    > lose signal quality to a noticable level? We're not too picky about
    > signal as we don't have Hi-definition or anything, but it's still gotta
    > be watchable.


    Two-way splitters cause a 3 dB loss (the power is cut in half for each
    circuit ... actually it is a little more since splitters are not perfect).
    Ganging splitters adds another 3 dB loss for each 1 to two split. Some
    cable companies provide a rather robust signal and multiple splitting
    (within reason) is not a problem. Others provide a marginal signal and even
    one splitter shows up as a noisy signal (grainy looking picture). Splitters
    are cheap ... just go ahead and try it.
     
    Charles Schuler, Nov 29, 2006
    #3
  4. Guest

    Do I lose more by buying one 8-way splitter than using a two-way
    splitter? Or is it the same 3db loss between all these?
     
    , Nov 29, 2006
    #4
  5. TheClassic Guest

    A 2-way splitter approximately cuts the signal in half, a 3-way will
    give each output 1/3 of the power, etc. However, if you have an 8-way
    splitter, but only have 3 cables coming out of it, I'm not sure if each
    cable gets 1/3 or 1/8 the power (since you only have 3 "circuits").

    On Nov 29, 4:42 pm, "" <> wrote:
    > Do I lose more by buying one 8-way splitter than using a two-way
    > splitter? Or is it the same 3db loss between all these?
     
    TheClassic, Nov 29, 2006
    #5
  6. <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > Do I lose more by buying one 8-way splitter than using a two-way
    > splitter? Or is it the same 3db loss between all these?


    As far as I know, the difference is small (with quality splitters).
     
    Charles Schuler, Nov 29, 2006
    #6
  7. Guest

    Thanks guys, I'll go ahead and get an 8-way and give it a try.
    Can I use the crimp type connectors without a special tool? I'm
    seeing "compression type" which our cable company uses, and I don't
    ahve one of those tools. I do have a simple solderless-terminal
    crimper that may work to crimp type connectors.

    Do they make one that works better than the crimp type, like one that I
    can just screw together or something, there won't be much opportunity
    to pull on these lines as they'll be in the wall.
     
    , Nov 29, 2006
    #7
  8. <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > Thanks guys, I'll go ahead and get an 8-way and give it a try.
    > Can I use the crimp type connectors without a special tool? I'm
    > seeing "compression type" which our cable company uses, and I don't
    > ahve one of those tools. I do have a simple solderless-terminal
    > crimper that may work to crimp type connectors.
    >
    > Do they make one that works better than the crimp type, like one that I
    > can just screw together or something, there won't be much opportunity
    > to pull on these lines as they'll be in the wall.
    >


    The solderless terminal crimper will not work correctly, although you lose
    nothing but an inch of cable to prove this to yourself. Go buy the right
    tool to do the job the way the cable company did it.
     
    JoeSpareBedroom, Nov 29, 2006
    #8
  9. By the way, Home Depot carries the right tool. Not expensive.
     
    JoeSpareBedroom, Nov 29, 2006
    #9
  10. Oren Guest

    On 29 Nov 2006 13:20:49 -0800, ""
    <> wrote:

    >I have a three way splice from the cable company, and would like to
    >splice it yet again for a fourth television. Should I go out and buy
    >a 4-way splice, or can I just hook a two-way on to an existing run?


    Your cable company will change out your splitter. Cheap is not better
    in this case. Something compatible with the cable company is best.

    >Does anyone know what the biggest splice I can use is before i start to
    >lose signal quality to a noticable level? We're not too picky about
    >signal as we don't have Hi-definition or anything, but it's still gotta
    >be watchable.


    One splice is not terrible, the more you go the faster you will drop
    signal.

    --
    Oren

    "Well, it doesn't happen all the time, but when it happens, it happens constantly."
     
    Oren, Nov 29, 2006
    #10
  11. AZ Nomad Guest

    On Wed, 29 Nov 2006 16:38:09 -0500, Charles Schuler <> wrote:



    ><> wrote in message
    >news:...
    >>I have a three way splice from the cable company, and would like to
    >> splice it yet again for a fourth television. Should I go out and buy
    >> a 4-way splice, or can I just hook a two-way on to an existing run?
    >>
    >> Does anyone know what the biggest splice I can use is before i start to
    >> lose signal quality to a noticable level? We're not too picky about
    >> signal as we don't have Hi-definition or anything, but it's still gotta
    >> be watchable.


    >Two-way splitters cause a 3 dB loss (the power is cut in half for each
    >circuit ... actually it is a little more since splitters are not perfect).
    >Ganging splitters adds another 3 dB loss for each 1 to two split. Some
    >cable companies provide a rather robust signal and multiple splitting
    >(within reason) is not a problem. Others provide a marginal signal and even
    >one splitter shows up as a noisy signal (grainy looking picture). Splitters
    >are cheap ... just go ahead and try it.



    It's best to only split once. Find where the cable is initially split where
    it enters the house and replace the three way with a four way. Downside is
    that it means running a cable all the way from the cable box to the new TV.
    There are also some cheap amplified splitters. I had good results with an
    RCA amplified splitter I got from home depot.
     
    AZ Nomad, Nov 29, 2006
    #11
  12. Pete C. Guest

    "" wrote:
    >
    > Thanks guys, I'll go ahead and get an 8-way and give it a try.
    > Can I use the crimp type connectors without a special tool? I'm
    > seeing "compression type" which our cable company uses, and I don't
    > ahve one of those tools. I do have a simple solderless-terminal
    > crimper that may work to crimp type connectors.
    >
    > Do they make one that works better than the crimp type, like one that I
    > can just screw together or something, there won't be much opportunity
    > to pull on these lines as they'll be in the wall.


    Do *not* get a splitter with more ports than you need. Every split (one
    to two) looses 3.5db of signal to each output port whether you have
    something connected or not.

    There is commonly only a one to two splitter, so every larger splitter
    is just a collection of two way splits internally.

    Splitter losses:

    2 way = two 3.5db loss ports

    3 way = two 7db loss ports and one 3.5db loss port

    4 way = four 7db loss ports

    8 way = eight 14db loss ports

    Unused ports should be terminated with 75ohm terminators. Open ports are
    a source of both signal leakage which can interfere with over the air
    signals including police radios and air traffic control, and also
    ingress where these over the air signals can get into the cable and
    interfere with the cable signal. Cable companies are required to
    periodically survey their entire systems and certify compliance with
    maximum leakage limits imposed by the FCC.

    Improperly connections such as twist on or set screw F connectors or
    improperly done crimp or compression F connectors will also cause
    problems. These connections are more sensitive than most people think,
    and they are only becoming more sensitive as cable systems expand to
    higher frequencies.

    There is also signal strength loss from every connector, ground block,
    etc. in the system (insertion loss) and loss from every foot of coax
    cable. Don't have any more connections than you need or any large excess
    of cable in your setup if you want the best signal.

    The total signal loss is important in the "forward" direction (from the
    cable Co. to you) and even more important in the "reverse" direction
    (from you to the cable Co.) if you use things like a cable modem or pay
    per view from a two way cable box.

    Pete C.
    (Used to work for Cox cable)
     
    Pete C., Nov 29, 2006
    #12
  13. Pete C. Guest

    "Pete C." wrote:
    >
    > "" wrote:
    > >
    > > Thanks guys, I'll go ahead and get an 8-way and give it a try.
    > > Can I use the crimp type connectors without a special tool? I'm
    > > seeing "compression type" which our cable company uses, and I don't
    > > ahve one of those tools. I do have a simple solderless-terminal
    > > crimper that may work to crimp type connectors.
    > >
    > > Do they make one that works better than the crimp type, like one that I
    > > can just screw together or something, there won't be much opportunity
    > > to pull on these lines as they'll be in the wall.

    >
    > Do *not* get a splitter with more ports than you need. Every split (one
    > to two) looses 3.5db of signal to each output port whether you have
    > something connected or not.
    >
    > There is commonly only a one to two splitter, so every larger splitter
    > is just a collection of two way splits internally.
    >
    > Splitter losses:
    >
    > 2 way = two 3.5db loss ports
    >
    > 3 way = two 7db loss ports and one 3.5db loss port
    >
    > 4 way = four 7db loss ports
    >
    > 8 way = eight 14db loss ports
    >
    > Unused ports should be terminated with 75ohm terminators. Open ports are
    > a source of both signal leakage which can interfere with over the air
    > signals including police radios and air traffic control, and also
    > ingress where these over the air signals can get into the cable and
    > interfere with the cable signal. Cable companies are required to
    > periodically survey their entire systems and certify compliance with
    > maximum leakage limits imposed by the FCC.
    >
    > Improperly connections such as twist on or set screw F connectors or
    > improperly done crimp or compression F connectors will also cause
    > problems. These connections are more sensitive than most people think,
    > and they are only becoming more sensitive as cable systems expand to
    > higher frequencies.
    >
    > There is also signal strength loss from every connector, ground block,
    > etc. in the system (insertion loss) and loss from every foot of coax
    > cable. Don't have any more connections than you need or any large excess
    > of cable in your setup if you want the best signal.
    >
    > The total signal loss is important in the "forward" direction (from the
    > cable Co. to you) and even more important in the "reverse" direction
    > (from you to the cable Co.) if you use things like a cable modem or pay
    > per view from a two way cable box.
    >
    > Pete C.
    > (Used to work for Cox cable)


    Forgot to mention:

    You also need to make sure the splitters you use are rated for the
    frequencies in use in the cable system. These days it's safest to assume
    systems are up to 1GHz so you need a 1GHz rated splitter. An old 750MHz
    rated splitter will work for some channels, but you will loose others
    that are at higher frequencies because the splitter can't handle them
    without substantial attenuation.

    Cheap splitters also have poor shielding which can cause leakage and
    ingress problems. The shielding rating is usually stamped on the back of
    the splitter, 140db is a typical good value for this, less typically
    means it's a cheap splitter.

    Pete C.
     
    Pete C., Nov 29, 2006
    #13
  14. AZ Nomad Guest

    On Wed, 29 Nov 2006 14:11:41 -0800, Oren <> wrote:


    >On 29 Nov 2006 13:20:49 -0800, ""
    ><> wrote:


    >>I have a three way splice from the cable company, and would like to
    >>splice it yet again for a fourth television. Should I go out and buy
    >>a 4-way splice, or can I just hook a two-way on to an existing run?


    >Your cable company will change out your splitter. Cheap is not better
    >in this case. Something compatible with the cable company is best.


    Compatible? This isn't an automobile engine being installed. It's just
    a lousy splitter!
     
    AZ Nomad, Nov 29, 2006
    #14
  15. "AZ Nomad" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > On Wed, 29 Nov 2006 14:11:41 -0800, Oren <> wrote:
    >
    >
    >>On 29 Nov 2006 13:20:49 -0800, ""
    >><> wrote:

    >
    >>>I have a three way splice from the cable company, and would like to
    >>>splice it yet again for a fourth television. Should I go out and buy
    >>>a 4-way splice, or can I just hook a two-way on to an existing run?

    >
    >>Your cable company will change out your splitter. Cheap is not better
    >>in this case. Something compatible with the cable company is best.

    >
    > Compatible? This isn't an automobile engine being installed. It's just
    > a lousy splitter!


    Ain't it amazing how the nit-pickers crawl onto topics like this one?

    A splitter is a low-cost experiment (with no dangerous side issues). Just
    try it!
     
    Charles Schuler, Nov 29, 2006
    #15
  16. Oren Guest

    On Wed, 29 Nov 2006 22:30:55 GMT, AZ Nomad
    <> wrote:

    >On Wed, 29 Nov 2006 14:11:41 -0800, Oren <> wrote:
    >
    >
    >>On 29 Nov 2006 13:20:49 -0800, ""
    >><> wrote:

    >
    >>>I have a three way splice from the cable company, and would like to
    >>>splice it yet again for a fourth television. Should I go out and buy
    >>>a 4-way splice, or can I just hook a two-way on to an existing run?

    >
    >>Your cable company will change out your splitter. Cheap is not better
    >>in this case. Something compatible with the cable company is best.

    >
    >Compatible? This isn't an automobile engine being installed. It's just
    >a lousy splitter!


    I was amazed to learn a "dumb" splitter can go bad. Compatible, I mean
    what the cable company uses.

    Put a lousy splitter on and they say; "the splitter is the problem".

    --
    Oren

    "Well, it doesn't happen all the time, but when it happens, it happens constantly."
     
    Oren, Nov 29, 2006
    #16

  17. > Put a lousy splitter on and they say; "the splitter is the problem".


    Of course they say that. I have a digital cable Internet connection and
    when I call for service, the first words out of the technicians mouth are
    "Have you installed a splitter?" Fie on them!
     
    Charles Schuler, Nov 29, 2006
    #17
  18. Oren Guest

    On Wed, 29 Nov 2006 17:34:55 -0500, "Charles Schuler"
    <> wrote:

    >
    >"AZ Nomad" <> wrote in message
    >news:...
    >> On Wed, 29 Nov 2006 14:11:41 -0800, Oren <> wrote:
    >>
    >>
    >>>On 29 Nov 2006 13:20:49 -0800, ""
    >>><> wrote:

    >>
    >>>>I have a three way splice from the cable company, and would like to
    >>>>splice it yet again for a fourth television. Should I go out and buy
    >>>>a 4-way splice, or can I just hook a two-way on to an existing run?

    >>
    >>>Your cable company will change out your splitter. Cheap is not better
    >>>in this case. Something compatible with the cable company is best.

    >>
    >> Compatible? This isn't an automobile engine being installed. It's just
    >> a lousy splitter!

    >
    >Ain't it amazing how the nit-pickers crawl onto topics like this one?
    >
    >A splitter is a low-cost experiment (with no dangerous side issues). Just
    >try it!
    >


    Here is low-cost. Called the cable company and within an hour they
    arrived, replaced a problem splitter. No cost, gas, or nit-picking.






    --
    Oren

    "Well, it doesn't happen all the time, but when it happens, it happens constantly."
     
    Oren, Nov 29, 2006
    #18
  19. Oren Guest

    On Wed, 29 Nov 2006 18:00:21 -0500, "Charles Schuler"
    <> wrote:

    >
    >> Put a lousy splitter on and they say; "the splitter is the problem".

    >
    >Of course they say that. I have a digital cable Internet connection and
    >when I call for service, the first words out of the technicians mouth are
    >"Have you installed a splitter?" Fie on them!
    >


    I usually get something else from them, but it is a 'pat answer".

    --
    Oren

    "Well, it doesn't happen all the time, but when it happens, it happens constantly."
     
    Oren, Nov 29, 2006
    #19
  20. JerseyMike Guest

    <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > I have a three way splice from the cable company, and would like to
    > splice it yet again for a fourth television. Should I go out and buy
    > a 4-way splice, or can I just hook a two-way on to an existing run?
    >
    > Does anyone know what the biggest splice I can use is before i start to
    > lose signal quality to a noticable level? We're not too picky about
    > signal as we don't have Hi-definition or anything, but it's still gotta
    > be watchable.
    >


    do yourself a favor and buy a signal amplifer. they plug into a regular
    outlet and boost the cable signal so you don't have to worry about loosing
    the signal. you run your main cable into (screw on or push on terminal)
    the amplifer then out to the feed to the rest of the house by way of your
    splitters.

    mike...........
     
    JerseyMike, Nov 29, 2006
    #20
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