Restoring oak.

Discussion in 'UK DIY' started by Dave Plowman (News), Dec 23, 2005.

  1. A new neighbour wishes to restore the oak panelling in his hall - the
    house was once owned by a coffin maker. ;-)

    When I first saw it many years ago it was stained very dark - near black.
    The next owner painted it white.

    The present one wants it back to natural, but even after sanding there are
    traces of the original stain - and the intricate mouldings make sanding
    difficult without damage. Any tips?

    --
    *Who are these kids and why are they calling me Mom?

    Dave Plowman London SW
    To e-mail, change noise into sound.
     
    Dave Plowman (News), Dec 23, 2005
    #1
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  2. Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
    >
    > A new neighbour wishes to restore the oak panelling in his hall
    > When I first saw it many years ago it was stained very dark - near black.
    > The next owner painted it white.
    >

    Why do people who shouldn't have nice things always manage to get them?

    > The present one wants it back to natural, but even after sanding there are
    > traces of the original stain - and the intricate mouldings make sanding
    > difficult without damage. Any tips?
    >

    Nitromorse.
     
    Weatherlawyer, Dec 23, 2005
    #2
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  3. Dave Plowman (News)

    Andy Dingley Guest

    On Fri, 23 Dec 2005 00:48:01 +0000 (GMT), "Dave Plowman (News)"
    <> wrote:

    >The present one wants it back to natural,


    He'll be lucky.

    > but even after sanding there are
    >traces of the original stain - and the intricate mouldings make sanding
    >difficult without damage. Any tips?


    Same as any complicated stripping job - you probably have to use a
    number of methods in sequence. Try one of the "blanket" strippers if
    it's mouldings - something like the usual Nitromors recipe of methanol
    and dichloromethane, thickened with cellulose and laid on under a layer
    of thick polyethylene. Some of this depends on the stain - pigment
    stains will lift off the surface but not out of the pores, dye stains
    will be near impossible to shift from oak.

    Sandvik also do some nice long-handled scrapers with carbide blades and
    a ball handle to apply pressure with,

    As a final measure, try oxalic acid bleach to lighten aged oak.
     
    Andy Dingley, Dec 23, 2005
    #3
  4. Dave Plowman (News)

    Buzby Guest

    You could try caustic soda, Dave. Although you will have to make sure
    you rinse every last crystaline trace of it off the walls when you're
    done unless you want to have visitors telling you how their clothes
    have developed holes after leaning on your friend's panelling (this
    will often occur after clothes have gone through the wash).
    See here:
    http://www.motherearthnews.com/library/1997_April_May/Secrets_of_Paint_and_Stain_Chemistry

    There are also strong pastes that seem to do a better job of stripping
    old paint, especially on uneven surfaces.

    And one last thing - a tad dangerous - but I've always found a good way
    of creating cheap razor-sharp scrapers is to cut convex pieces of scrap
    glass with a glass cutter. When the edge wears off, cut a new piece.
    Get your glass from a glazier's skip.
     
    Buzby, Dec 23, 2005
    #4
  5. Dave Plowman (News)

    Buzby Guest

    Andy reminded me: How come when I repeatedly mention how I'd love a big
    Skarsten scraper for Christmas no-one in my family ever takes the hint?

    Dave - My dad used to have a Skarsten with a big knobbly handle like
    Andy mentioned and it made life so much easier.
     
    Buzby, Dec 23, 2005
    #5
  6. "Andy Dingley" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > On Fri, 23 Dec 2005 00:48:01 +0000 (GMT), "Dave Plowman (News)"
    > <> wrote:
    >
    >>The present one wants it back to natural,

    >
    > He'll be lucky.
    >
    >> but even after sanding there are
    >>traces of the original stain - and the intricate mouldings make sanding
    >>difficult without damage. Any tips?

    >
    > Same as any complicated stripping job - you probably have to use a
    > number of methods in sequence. Try one of the "blanket" strippers if
    > it's mouldings - something like the usual Nitromors recipe of methanol
    > and dichloromethane, thickened with cellulose and laid on under a layer
    > of thick polyethylene. Some of this depends on the stain - pigment
    > stains will lift off the surface but not out of the pores, dye stains
    > will be near impossible to shift from oak.
    >
    > Sandvik also do some nice long-handled scrapers with carbide blades and
    > a ball handle to apply pressure with,
    >
    > As a final measure, try oxalic acid bleach to lighten aged oak.


    It will be messy but you could also get it sand blasted. One of my customers
    is having this done to oak beams.
     
    Stephen Dawson, Dec 23, 2005
    #6
  7. Dave Plowman (News)

    marbl2 Guest

    On 22 Dec 2005 18:32:12 -0800, "Buzby" <>
    wrote:

    >You could try caustic soda, Dave.


    Dont EVER EVER use caustic soda on Oak you will open up the grain and
    ruin it!

    Use Nitromorse!
     
    marbl2, Dec 23, 2005
    #7
  8. Dave Plowman (News)

    Guest

    Stephen Dawson wrote:

    > It will be messy but you could also get it sand blasted. One of my customers
    > is having this done to oak beams.


    This is an effective way to round off all the details, ruin mouldings
    and expose worm holing in beams. Not recommended.


    NT
     
    , Dec 23, 2005
    #8
  9. Dave Plowman (News)

    Guest

    Buzby wrote:

    > See here:
    > http://www.motherearthnews.com/library/1997_April_May/Secrets_of_Paint_and_Stain_Chemistry


    ohh. On google that comes out shortened to 'secrets of pain'


    > And one last thing - a tad dangerous - but I've always found a good way
    > of creating cheap razor-sharp scrapers is to cut convex pieces of scrap
    > glass with a glass cutter. When the edge wears off, cut a new piece.
    > Get your glass from a glazier's skip.


    Would that be lses likely to scratch the glass than a steel scraper?


    NT
     
    , Dec 23, 2005
    #9
  10. Buzby wrote:
    > Andy reminded me: How come when I repeatedly mention how I'd love a big
    > Skarsten scraper for Christmas no-one in my family ever takes the hint?
    >
    > Dave - My dad used to have a Skarsten with a big knobbly handle like
    > Andy mentioned and it made life so much easier.
    >

    If your other do it yourself efforts are anything like the use of
    caustic on oak then the answer must be that your family would prefer to
    have their surroundings adjusted less Buzbyly.
     
    Weatherlawyer, Dec 23, 2005
    #10
  11. Dave Plowman (News)

    Guest

    Agreed. Absolutely the worst thing to do is sand blasting. Next worst
    is any scraping or sanding. Nitromors or similar only, used gently with
    plastic brushes etc. Impossible to remove stain so you might as well
    learn to like it. Treat it with raw linseed/real turps half and half.
    Will be rich and dark but will polish up. If you don't like dark oak
    then paint it. If you've already done much sanding it will probably
    look a mess so you might as well just paint it and forget it.

    cheers

    Jacob
     
    , Dec 23, 2005
    #11
  12. marbl2 wrote:
    > On 22 Dec 2005 18:32:12 -0800, "Buzby" <>
    > wrote:
    >
    >> You could try caustic soda, Dave.

    >
    > Dont EVER EVER use caustic soda on Oak you will open up the grain and
    > ruin it!
    >
    > Use Nitromorse!


    Inspector or code?

    --
    Sir Benjamin Middlethwaite
     
    The3rd Earl Of Derby, Dec 23, 2005
    #12
  13. Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
    > A new neighbour wishes to restore the oak panelling in his hall - the
    > house was once owned by a coffin maker. ;-)
    >
    > When I first saw it many years ago it was stained very dark - near
    > black. The next owner painted it white.
    >
    > The present one wants it back to natural, but even after sanding
    > there are traces of the original stain - and the intricate mouldings
    > make sanding difficult without damage. Any tips?


    Hah! you've taken on a job you wished you hadn't now. :-(

    For thr intricate Nitromors and a dremel drill or similiar, using the brass
    conical bit, this is so fine and soft it won't gouge the wood, put drill on
    slowest speed.
    Providing you have a dremel that is?


    --
    Sir Benjamin Middlethwaite
     
    The3rd Earl Of Derby, Dec 23, 2005
    #13
  14. > For thr intricate Nitromors and a dremel drill or similiar, using the
    > brass conical bit, this is so fine and soft it won't gouge the wood,
    > put drill on slowest speed.
    > Providing you have a dremel that is?


    Oh and if you haven't a dremel a "brass suede shoe brush" is your best bet.

    --
    Sir Benjamin Middlethwaite
     
    The3rd Earl Of Derby, Dec 23, 2005
    #14
  15. In article <npPqf.13608$>,
    The3rd Earl Of Derby <> wrote:
    > > The present one wants it back to natural, but even after sanding
    > > there are traces of the original stain - and the intricate mouldings
    > > make sanding difficult without damage. Any tips?


    > Hah! you've taken on a job you wished you hadn't now. :-(


    I'm not doing it - he is. I was just hoping to pass on some tips as he's a
    bit of a DIY newbie.

    --
    *Heart attacks... God's revenge for eating his animal friends

    Dave Plowman London SW
    To e-mail, change noise into sound.
     
    Dave Plowman (News), Dec 23, 2005
    #15
  16. In article <TKPqf.13617$>,
    The3rd Earl Of Derby <> wrote:
    > > For thr intricate Nitromors and a dremel drill or similiar, using the
    > > brass conical bit, this is so fine and soft it won't gouge the wood,
    > > put drill on slowest speed. Providing you have a dremel that is?


    > Oh and if you haven't a dremel a "brass suede shoe brush" is your best
    > bet.


    Sounds better to me - I'd be worried about the dremel throwing the
    Nitromors around.

    --
    *Few women admit their age; fewer men act it.

    Dave Plowman London SW
    To e-mail, change noise into sound.
     
    Dave Plowman (News), Dec 23, 2005
    #16
  17. Dave Plowman (News)

    Andy Hall Guest

    On Fri, 23 Dec 2005 10:24:42 +0000 (GMT), "Dave Plowman (News)"
    <> wrote:

    >In article <TKPqf.13617$>,
    > The3rd Earl Of Derby <> wrote:
    >> > For thr intricate Nitromors and a dremel drill or similiar, using the
    >> > brass conical bit, this is so fine and soft it won't gouge the wood,
    >> > put drill on slowest speed. Providing you have a dremel that is?

    >
    >> Oh and if you haven't a dremel a "brass suede shoe brush" is your best
    >> bet.

    >
    >Sounds better to me - I'd be worried about the dremel throwing the
    >Nitromors around.


    Simple solution. Buy a Prion. They come with a rubber suit. Or you
    could borrow Dribble's....


    --

    ..andy
     
    Andy Hall, Dec 23, 2005
    #17
  18. Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
    > In article <TKPqf.13617$>,
    > The3rd Earl Of Derby <> wrote:
    >>> For thr intricate Nitromors and a dremel drill or similiar, using
    >>> the brass conical bit, this is so fine and soft it won't gouge the
    >>> wood, put drill on slowest speed. Providing you have a dremel that
    >>> is?

    >
    >> Oh and if you haven't a dremel a "brass suede shoe brush" is your
    >> best bet.

    >
    > Sounds better to me - I'd be worried about the dremel throwing the
    > Nitromors around.


    Thats what batman suits are for. ;-)

    --
    Sir Benjamin Middlethwaite
     
    The3rd Earl Of Derby, Dec 23, 2005
    #18
  19. Dave Plowman (News)

    Stuart Noble Guest

    The3rd Earl Of Derby wrote:
    >>For thr intricate Nitromors and a dremel drill or similiar, using the
    >>brass conical bit, this is so fine and soft it won't gouge the wood,
    >>put drill on slowest speed.
    >>Providing you have a dremel that is?

    >
    >
    > Oh and if you haven't a dremel a "brass suede shoe brush" is your best bet.
    >
    > --
    > Sir Benjamin Middlethwaite
    >
    >


    The *only* way to make a good job of panelling is is to have it dipped,
    preferably by the non-caustic method. Dip 'n Strip used to have
    franchises dotted about.
    Scratching about in situ will do your head in, and give you the classic
    d-i-y 90% stripped look like all those staircases you've seen where
    people say, "Took us a year but we're *so* pleased with it". And you
    think, "Yeah, I can see how it used to be 'cos you've left paint in all
    the grooves".
    Caustic can work quite well on oak as long as you don't heat it (a lot
    of commercial outfits use heated tanks). Bleach it with peroxide to undo
    the greying effect.
     
    Stuart Noble, Dec 23, 2005
    #19
  20. Stuart Noble wrote:
    > The3rd Earl Of Derby wrote:
    >>> For thr intricate Nitromors and a dremel drill or similiar, using
    >>> the brass conical bit, this is so fine and soft it won't gouge the
    >>> wood, put drill on slowest speed.
    >>> Providing you have a dremel that is?

    >>
    >>
    >> Oh and if you haven't a dremel a "brass suede shoe brush" is your
    >> best bet.
    >>
    >> --
    >> Sir Benjamin Middlethwaite
    >>
    >>

    >
    > The *only* way to make a good job of panelling is is to have it
    > dipped, preferably by the non-caustic method. Dip 'n Strip used to
    > have franchises dotted about.


    Thats the way to go but if its the 1930's? paneling in this situ then it
    would be a bugger to to take orf with a lot of making good putting back on.

    --
    Sir Benjamin Middlethwaite
     
    The3rd Earl Of Derby, Dec 23, 2005
    #20
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