Re: Handyman prices

Discussion in 'UK DIY' started by Colin Wilson, Jun 8, 2009.

  1. Colin Wilson

    Colin Wilson Guest

    > I have a few jobs that need doing - cutting back some large trees, painting,
    > hanging a few doors etc. I have got quotes from a few "handymen" in my area
    > (North Cheshire) that range between £20-£40 per hour plus materials.


    My dad's a self-employed handyman and charges £70 per day (based in
    Liverpool)
     
    Colin Wilson, Jun 8, 2009
    #1
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  2. Colin Wilson

    A.Lee Guest

    Colin Wilson <>
    wrote:

    > > I have a few jobs that need doing - cutting back some large trees, painting,
    > > hanging a few doors etc. I have got quotes from a few "handymen" in my area
    > > (North Cheshire) that range between £20-£40 per hour plus materials.

    >
    > My dad's a self-employed handyman and charges £70 per day (based in
    > Liverpool)


    He is below the minimum wage then.
    That isnt a sustainable rate. I know because I used to charge £75 a day.
    I lost £3k in my first year, last year I just broke even.
    £100 a day has got to be a minimum for a 7 hour working day. I leave
    home at 8, and expect to be home for 5. Any less, and you start to
    regret doing the job, as you are not making enough to live a life.

    Alan.
    --
    To reply by e-mail, change the ' + ' to 'plus'.
     
    A.Lee, Jun 9, 2009
    #2
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  3. A.Lee wrote:
    > Colin Wilson <>
    > wrote:
    >
    >>> I have a few jobs that need doing - cutting back some large trees,
    >>> painting, hanging a few doors etc. I have got quotes from a few
    >>> "handymen" in my area (North Cheshire) that range between £20-£40
    >>> per hour plus materials.

    >>
    >> My dad's a self-employed handyman and charges £70 per day (based in
    >> Liverpool)

    >
    > He is below the minimum wage then.


    Too right. He would be better off working at McDonalds. Does he have
    insurance & pay tax?

    > That isnt a sustainable rate. I know because I used to charge £75 a
    > day. I lost £3k in my first year, last year I just broke even.
    > £100 a day has got to be a minimum for a 7 hour working day. I leave
    > home at 8, and expect to be home for 5. Any less, and you start to
    > regret doing the job, as you are not making enough to live a life.


    I charge £160 for a full day which I think is cheap (£20 an hour). That
    alone won't generate enough to run a business properly, for smaller jobs I
    charge the first hour at £45, then £20 an hour, so a couple of 3 hour jobs a
    day + mark up on materials generates nearer £200.

    I'm currently booked fully till mid July with more work coming in every day,
    so I'm looking at putting my prices up a little, I just need to find a way
    of presenting it.

    Self employed people erroneously belive that being cheap gets them more work
    & it does - until you fill the diary. Then your competitive 'edge' is lost
    and you are working for peanuts. The world is full of busy fools.


    --
    Dave - The Medway Handyman
    www.medwayhandyman.co.uk
     
    The Medway Handyman, Jun 9, 2009
    #3
  4. On Tue, 09 Jun 2009 07:18:42 GMT, The Medway Handyman wrote:

    >>> My dad's a self-employed handyman and charges £70 per day (based in
    >>> Liverpool)

    >>
    >> He is below the minimum wage then.


    Only if he is doing over 12hrs/day. The over 22 min. wage is currently
    £5.52 set to rise to £5.73 on 1st Oct.

    > Too right. He would be better off working at McDonalds. Does he have
    > insurance & pay tax?


    In Liverpool?

    No offence intended, but if he has any left after paying tax, PLI and
    running a car/van and buying replacemnet tools, I suspect this is a "cash
    only" rate, even then I reckon you'd be hard pressed to make much profit..

    --
    Cheers
    Dave.
     
    Dave Liquorice, Jun 9, 2009
    #4
  5. Colin Wilson

    fred Guest

    In article <>, Dave
    Liquorice <> writes
    >On Tue, 09 Jun 2009 07:18:42 GMT, The Medway Handyman wrote:
    >
    >>>> My dad's a self-employed handyman and charges £70 per day (based in
    >>>> Liverpool)
    >>>
    >>> He is below the minimum wage then.

    >
    >Only if he is doing over 12hrs/day. The over 22 min. wage is currently
    >£5.52 set to rise to £5.73 on 1st Oct.
    >

    It was last October it went up to £5.73.
    --
    fred
    BBC3, ITV2/3/4, channels going to the DOGs
     
    fred, Jun 9, 2009
    #5
  6. Colin Wilson

    Lobster Guest

    Dave Liquorice wrote:
    > On Tue, 09 Jun 2009 07:18:42 GMT, The Medway Handyman wrote:
    >
    >>>> My dad's a self-employed handyman and charges £70 per day (based in
    >>>> Liverpool)
    >>> He is below the minimum wage then.

    >
    > Only if he is doing over 12hrs/day. The over 22 min. wage is currently
    > £5.52 set to rise to £5.73 on 1st Oct.


    Presumably he's talking about the equivalent of minimum wage once the
    overheads and costs of being self-employed are accounted for.

    David
     
    Lobster, Jun 9, 2009
    #6
  7. On Tue, 9 Jun 2009 12:17:07 +0100, fred wrote:

    > In article <>, Dave
    > Liquorice <> writes
    > >On Tue, 09 Jun 2009 07:18:42 GMT, The Medway Handyman wrote:
    > >
    > >>>> My dad's a self-employed handyman and charges £70 per day (based in
    > >>>> Liverpool)
    > >>>
    > >>> He is below the minimum wage then.

    > >
    > >Only if he is doing over 12hrs/day. The over 22 min. wage is currently
    > >£5.52 set to rise to £5.73 on 1st Oct.
    > >

    > It was last October it went up to £5.73.


    Eh? I checked... check again, Ah, not that any of the websites that are on
    the first page from google are proper from the horses mouth government
    pages... but hard to read acurately press releases from organistaions with
    an axe to grind.

    £5.80 from 1st Oct 2009. Still needs to do 12hrs work to get £70 tho'.

    --
    Cheers
    Dave.
     
    Dave Liquorice, Jun 9, 2009
    #7
  8. Colin Wilson

    fred Guest

    In article <>, Dave
    Liquorice <> writes
    >On Tue, 9 Jun 2009 12:17:07 +0100, fred wrote:
    >
    >> In article <>, Dave
    >> Liquorice <> writes
    >> >On Tue, 09 Jun 2009 07:18:42 GMT, The Medway Handyman wrote:
    >> >
    >> >>>> My dad's a self-employed handyman and charges £70 per day (based in
    >> >>>> Liverpool)
    >> >>>
    >> >>> He is below the minimum wage then.
    >> >
    >> >Only if he is doing over 12hrs/day. The over 22 min. wage is currently
    >> >£5.52 set to rise to £5.73 on 1st Oct.
    >> >

    >> It was last October it went up to £5.73.

    >
    >Eh? I checked... check again, Ah, not that any of the websites that are on
    >the first page from google are proper from the horses mouth government
    >pages... but hard to read acurately press releases from organistaions with
    >an axe to grind.
    >

    I've started putting 'gov' & 'uk' in my searches for such things these
    days, it seems to find the info with fewer of the misinformation sites.

    >£5.80 from 1st Oct 2009. Still needs to do 12hrs work to get £70 tho'.
    >

    Absolutely, MHM's rates seem about right to actually survive in
    business.
    --
    fred
    BBC3, ITV2/3/4, channels going to the DOGs
     
    fred, Jun 9, 2009
    #8
  9. Colin Wilson

    A.Lee Guest

    Dave Liquorice <> wrote:

    > On Tue, 9 Jun 2009 12:17:07 +0100, fred wrote:
    >
    > > In article <>, Dave
    > > Liquorice <> writes
    > > >On Tue, 09 Jun 2009 07:18:42 GMT, The Medway Handyman wrote:
    > > >
    > > >>>> My dad's a self-employed handyman and charges £70 per day (based in
    > > >>>> Liverpool)
    > > >>>
    > > >>> He is below the minimum wage then.
    > > >
    > > >Only if he is doing over 12hrs/day. The over 22 min. wage is currently
    > > >£5.52 set to rise to £5.73 on 1st Oct.
    > > >

    > > It was last October it went up to £5.73.

    >
    > Eh? I checked... check again, Ah, not that any of the websites that are on
    > the first page from google are proper from the horses mouth government
    > pages... but hard to read acurately press releases from organistaions with
    > an axe to grind.
    >
    > £5.80 from 1st Oct 2009. Still needs to do 12hrs work to get £70 tho'.


    But that £70 is not cash in pocket is it.
    Insurance, van tax/insurance/MOT/servicing plus originally buying it.
    Cost of tools. Cost of clothing (I get through a pair of trousers every
    2 weeks or so).
    52 week year. Say, 25 days holiday. 5 other days where it is either too
    wet/cold/snowy to work, that's down to 46wks x 5days = 230 days. £70 a
    day for 230 days = £16100.
    Van tax/Insurance/MOT would be £350 min. PLI insurance, £100,Petrol say
    £20/wk=£920/yr, servicing a minimum of £50 takes the total down to
    £14680.

    Add in the capital costs of vehicle renewal every 3 years or so, regular
    tool replacement/renewal.
    That assumes the lowest possible outgoings, and the maximum income of
    £70 a day. In reality, these figures would be hard to achieve.
    From my experience, £70 a day would equal around £10k actual income
    after expenses/capital costs.

    Add in the work in the evenings going out to give estimates and all the
    related paperwork of running the business, then the hourly rate will
    drop even more, so my view that it is below the minimum wage is looking
    right.

    Alan.

    --
    To reply by e-mail, change the ' + ' to 'plus'.
     
    A.Lee, Jun 9, 2009
    #9
  10. Colin Wilson

    PeterC Guest

    On Tue, 9 Jun 2009 16:23:10 +0100, fred wrote:

    >>Eh? I checked... check again, Ah, not that any of the websites that are on
    >>the first page from google are proper from the horses mouth government
    >>pages... but hard to read acurately press releases from organistaions with
    >>an axe to grind.
    >>

    > I've started putting 'gov' & 'uk' in my searches for such things these
    > days, it seems to find the info with fewer of the misinformation sites.


    I use this site for a general portal:

    http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/index.htm

    has links to just about everything, e.g.:

    http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Employment/Employees/Pay/index.htm
    --
    Peter.
    The head of a pin will hold more angels if
    it's been flattened with an angel-grinder.
     
    PeterC, Jun 9, 2009
    #10
  11. Colin Wilson

    fred Guest

    In article <>, Andy
    Burns <> writes
    >fred wrote:
    >
    >> I've started putting 'gov' & 'uk' in my searches for such things these
    >> days, it seems to find the info with fewer of the misinformation sites.

    >
    >If using google, add "site:gov.uk" without the quote marks as a search term.


    Great tip, thanks.
    --
    fred
    BBC3, ITV2/3/4, channels going to the DOGs
     
    fred, Jun 9, 2009
    #11
  12. Colin Wilson

    Colin Wilson Guest

    > Too right. He would be better off working at McDonalds. Does he have
    > insurance & pay tax?


    AFAIK he's completely legit - and even at his prices he's having
    problems finding work at the moment.

    He gets a lot of repeat trade and word of mouth recommendations, but
    with money being tight everywhere, it's not an easy way to make a
    living right now...
     
    Colin Wilson, Jun 10, 2009
    #12
  13. Colin Wilson wrote:
    >> Too right. He would be better off working at McDonalds. Does he
    >> have insurance & pay tax?

    >
    > AFAIK he's completely legit - and even at his prices he's having
    > problems finding work at the moment.
    >
    > He gets a lot of repeat trade and word of mouth recommendations, but
    > with money being tight everywhere, it's not an easy way to make a
    > living right now...


    I'd disagree. I'm fully booked until the 16 July at the moment and have new
    jobs coming in every day. At prices more than double what he is charging.

    Marketing is the key.


    --
    Dave - The Medway Handyman
    www.medwayhandyman.co.uk
     
    The Medway Handyman, Jun 10, 2009
    #13
  14. Colin Wilson

    YAPH Guest

    On Tue, 09 Jun 2009 23:47:19 +0000, The Medway Handyman wrote:

    > I'd disagree. I'm fully booked until the 16 July at the moment and have
    > new jobs coming in every day. At prices more than double what he is
    > charging.
    >
    > Marketing is the key.


    And working in the still relatively prosperous South-East rather than
    Murkeyside isn't?



    --
    John Stumbles -- http://yaph.co.uk

    "I used to think correlation implied causation.
    Then I took a statistics course and now I don't."
    "Sounds as if the statistics course helped."
    "Well, maybe."
     
    YAPH, Jun 10, 2009
    #14
  15. Colin Wilson

    Bill Taylor Guest

    On Tue, 09 Jun 2009 23:47:19 GMT, "The Medway Handyman"
    <> wrote:

    >Colin Wilson wrote:
    >>> Too right. He would be better off working at McDonalds. Does he
    >>> have insurance & pay tax?

    >>
    >> AFAIK he's completely legit - and even at his prices he's having
    >> problems finding work at the moment.
    >>
    >> He gets a lot of repeat trade and word of mouth recommendations, but
    >> with money being tight everywhere, it's not an easy way to make a
    >> living right now...

    >
    >I'd disagree. I'm fully booked until the 16 July at the moment and have new
    >jobs coming in every day. At prices more than double what he is charging.
    >
    >Marketing is the key.


    Maybe location is the key. I think he is in Liverpool which doesn't
    really seem to have recovered from the 80s recession and is probably
    suffering from this one rather more than the (relatively) wealthy
    south east.

    Bill
     
    Bill Taylor, Jun 10, 2009
    #15
  16. Bill Taylor wrote:
    > On Tue, 09 Jun 2009 23:47:19 GMT, "The Medway Handyman"
    > <> wrote:
    >
    >> Colin Wilson wrote:
    >>>> Too right. He would be better off working at McDonalds. Does he
    >>>> have insurance & pay tax?
    >>>
    >>> AFAIK he's completely legit - and even at his prices he's having
    >>> problems finding work at the moment.
    >>>
    >>> He gets a lot of repeat trade and word of mouth recommendations, but
    >>> with money being tight everywhere, it's not an easy way to make a
    >>> living right now...

    >>
    >> I'd disagree. I'm fully booked until the 16 July at the moment and
    >> have new jobs coming in every day. At prices more than double what
    >> he is charging.
    >>
    >> Marketing is the key.

    >
    > Maybe location is the key. I think he is in Liverpool which doesn't
    > really seem to have recovered from the 80s recession and is probably
    > suffering from this one rather more than the (relatively) wealthy
    > south east.


    ....With higher property prices, higher council tax, food prices etc.

    There are plenty of poor areas in the south east.


    --
    Dave - The Medway Handyman
    www.medwayhandyman.co.uk
     
    The Medway Handyman, Jun 10, 2009
    #16
  17. On Wed, 10 Jun 2009 19:16:36 +0000, The Medway Handyman wrote:

    > ...With higher property prices, higher council tax, food prices etc.
    >
    > There are plenty of poor areas in the south east.


    Sure, but as long as there are well-off areas withing your working range
    (as there are here in Reading - I don't know about your patch Dave) then
    there's still a good living to be made. And as you say marketing's a big
    part of that. But if the money just isn't there over a wide enough area
    you're basically stuffed.

    --
    John Stumbles

    A backstreet vasectomy left me sterile
     
    John Stumbles, Jun 10, 2009
    #17
  18. We were somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert, when the
    drugs began to take hold. I remember "The Medway Handyman"
    <> saying something like:

    >> Maybe location is the key. I think he is in Liverpool which doesn't
    >> really seem to have recovered from the 80s recession and is probably
    >> suffering from this one rather more than the (relatively) wealthy
    >> south east.

    >
    >...With higher property prices, higher council tax, food prices etc.
    >
    >There are plenty of poor areas in the south east.


    But still plenty of money around. Population density will ensure there
    are enough customers to keep you going.
     
    Grimly Curmudgeon, Jun 11, 2009
    #18
  19. Grimly Curmudgeon wrote:
    > We were somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert, when the
    > drugs began to take hold. I remember "The Medway Handyman"
    > <> saying something like:
    >
    >>> Maybe location is the key. I think he is in Liverpool which doesn't
    >>> really seem to have recovered from the 80s recession and is probably
    >>> suffering from this one rather more than the (relatively) wealthy
    >>> south east.

    >>
    >> ...With higher property prices, higher council tax, food prices etc.
    >>
    >> There are plenty of poor areas in the south east.

    >
    > But still plenty of money around. Population density will ensure there
    > are enough customers to keep you going.


    Agreed, some of the local population are very dense :)

    Medway Towns population is 249,488 in 192.03 km²

    Liverpool population 435,500 in 111.84 km2

    According to Wikipedia anyway.


    --
    Dave - The Medway Handyman
    www.medwayhandyman.co.uk
     
    The Medway Handyman, Jun 11, 2009
    #19
  20. Colin Wilson

    tony sayer Guest

    In article <>, Mark <i@dontget
    lotsofspamanymore.net> scribeth thus
    >On Thu, 11 Jun 2009 18:22:44 GMT, "The Medway Handyman"
    ><> wrote:
    >
    >>Grimly Curmudgeon wrote:
    >>> We were somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert, when the
    >>> drugs began to take hold. I remember "The Medway Handyman"
    >>> <> saying something like:
    >>>
    >>>>> Maybe location is the key. I think he is in Liverpool which doesn't
    >>>>> really seem to have recovered from the 80s recession and is probably
    >>>>> suffering from this one rather more than the (relatively) wealthy
    >>>>> south east.
    >>>>
    >>>> ...With higher property prices, higher council tax, food prices etc.
    >>>>
    >>>> There are plenty of poor areas in the south east.
    >>>
    >>> But still plenty of money around. Population density will ensure there
    >>> are enough customers to keep you going.

    >>
    >>Agreed, some of the local population are very dense :)
    >>
    >>Medway Towns population is 249,488 in 192.03 km²
    >>
    >>Liverpool population 435,500 in 111.84 km2
    >>
    >>According to Wikipedia anyway.

    >
    >It also depends on your competition. If there are enough people
    >willing to undercut your prices you may find it difficult to find
    >work. This could be happening in liverpool.
    >


    What!, work and Liverpool?, no way wack;!..
    --
    Tony Sayer
     
    tony sayer, Jun 12, 2009
    #20
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