R value of dirt

Discussion in 'Building Construction' started by Michelle P, Oct 7, 2005.

  1. Michelle P

    Michelle P Guest

    I am looking at building a mostly buried monolithic dome in the next 18
    months. One major question. How much dirt will it take to get an R value
    0f 30? 40? 50?

    Going off grid,
    Michelle
     
    Michelle P, Oct 7, 2005
    #1
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  2. Michelle P

    3D Peruna Guest

    Michelle P wrote:
    > I am looking at building a mostly buried monolithic dome in the next 18
    > months. One major question. How much dirt will it take to get an R value
    > 0f 30? 40? 50?
    >
    > Going off grid,
    > Michelle
    >


    Depends on the dirt. Sand? Clay? Wet? Dry? Compacted? Loose?
    Gravel? Plants on it? Plain dirt?

    One thing to think about... R-Value isn't the whole story.

    One other thing to think about. People really like windows. Windows,
    the really really really efficient ones might have an R-10.

    One other thing to think about. Curved walls are hard to hang pictures on.
     
    3D Peruna, Oct 7, 2005
    #2
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  3. Michelle P

    RicodJour Guest

    Michelle P wrote:
    > I am looking at building a mostly buried monolithic dome in the next 18
    > months. One major question. How much dirt will it take to get an R value
    > 0f 30? 40? 50?
    >
    > Going off grid,
    > Michelle


    Earth sheltered design is not so dependent on insulation as you're
    using the "basal" temperature of the Earth as a medium, a regulator if
    you will.

    You might find this site interesting: http://www.earthship.com

    R
     
    RicodJour, Oct 7, 2005
    #3
  4. Click on #5 and look at "Phoenix Earthship".
    That thing looks as junky as any redneck home.
    A couple of old refrigerators and a toilet or two laying in the yard
    wouldn't make it look any worse.

    --
    JerryD(upstateNY)


    You might find this site interesting: http://www.earthship.com

    R
     
    JerryD\(upstateNY\), Oct 7, 2005
    #4
  5. Michelle P

    RicodJour Guest

    JerryD(upstateNY) wrote:
    > Click on #5 and look at "Phoenix Earthship".
    > That thing looks as junky as any redneck home.
    > A couple of old refrigerators and a toilet or two laying in the yard
    > wouldn't make it look any worse.


    Yeah, that's a pip, alright. It looks like they airlifted it in and
    dropped it the last hundred feet!

    The technology and information on the site are fine, but the designs
    often leave a lot to be desired.

    R
     
    RicodJour, Oct 7, 2005
    #5
  6. Michelle P

    Michelle P Guest

    that thing is ugly.
    this is more what I was thinking.
    http://www.monolithicdome.com/
    Partially buried.
    Michelle

    JerryD(upstateNY) wrote:

    >Click on #5 and look at "Phoenix Earthship".
    >That thing looks as junky as any redneck home.
    >A couple of old refrigerators and a toilet or two laying in the yard
    >wouldn't make it look any worse.
    >
    >
    >
     
    Michelle P, Oct 7, 2005
    #6
  7. Michelle P

    butch burton Guest

    A friend in the USAF was once stationed on Guam with his wife - their
    married quarters was a converted Japanese artillery bunker - doors and
    windows in the front and no others. When typhoons came around - they
    had a lot of guests.
     
    butch burton, Oct 7, 2005
    #7
  8. Michelle P

    RicodJour Guest

    Michelle P wrote:
    > JerryD(upstateNY) wrote:
    >
    > >Click on #5 and look at "Phoenix Earthship".
    > >That thing looks as junky as any redneck home.
    > >A couple of old refrigerators and a toilet or two laying in the yard
    > >wouldn't make it look any worse.

    >
    > that thing is ugly.
    > this is more what I was thinking.
    > http://www.monolithicdome.com/
    > Partially buried.


    Please don't top post. It makes if harder to understand what you're
    responding to.

    Jerry linked to a particularly ugly example, and as I said, many times
    the design leaves a lot to be desired. There are nice examples,
    though. The actor Dennis Weaver (McCloud fame) lives in a 10,000 SF
    earthship, though his isn't quite typical either.

    One of our architecture professors worked with Buckminster Fuller, and
    was fond of saying that the only things domes were good for were lying
    down and reading comic books. It's a vastly overrated way of building
    and not very functional.

    In any event, you have a lot of homework still to do before you build.
    Have fun with it.

    R
     
    RicodJour, Oct 7, 2005
    #8
  9. Michelle P

    Matt Whiting Guest

    Michelle P wrote:

    > I am looking at building a mostly buried monolithic dome in the next 18
    > months. One major question. How much dirt will it take to get an R value
    > 0f 30? 40? 50?


    Depends a lot on the type of dirt and its moisture content. I don't
    have an answer for you, but if you have a local university with a civil
    engineering department they might be able to help you. Did you try Google?

    Matt
     
    Matt Whiting, Oct 7, 2005
    #9
  10. Michelle P

    Matt Whiting Guest

    JerryD(upstateNY) wrote:

    > Click on #5 and look at "Phoenix Earthship".
    > That thing looks as junky as any redneck home.
    > A couple of old refrigerators and a toilet or two laying in the yard
    > wouldn't make it look any worse.
    >


    Looks like a submarine that surfaced through the dirt.

    Matt
     
    Matt Whiting, Oct 7, 2005
    #10
  11. Michelle P

    Phil Scott Guest

    "RicodJour" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > Michelle P wrote:
    >> I am looking at building a mostly buried monolithic dome in
    >> the next 18
    >> months. One major question. How much dirt will it take to
    >> get an R value
    >> 0f 30? 40? 50?
    >>
    >> Going off grid,
    >> Michelle

    >
    > Earth sheltered design is not so dependent on insulation as
    > you're
    > using the "basal" temperature of the Earth as a medium, a
    > regulator if
    > you will.
    >
    > You might find this site interesting:
    > http://www.earthship.com
    >
    > R



    Thats right... ground temperature a few feet down is 68 degees
    plus or minus in most cases...unless you are in a very cold
    climate.

    you dont insulate in that range you take adavantage of the
    'thermal mass' of the earth.


    Phil Scott

    >
     
    Phil Scott, Oct 8, 2005
    #11
  12. Michelle P

    Michelle P Guest

    Matt Whiting wrote:

    > Michelle P wrote:
    >
    >> I am looking at building a mostly buried monolithic dome in the next
    >> 18 months. One major question. How much dirt will it take to get an R
    >> value 0f 30? 40? 50?

    >
    >
    > Depends a lot on the type of dirt and its moisture content. I don't
    > have an answer for you, but if you have a local university with a
    > civil engineering department they might be able to help you. Did you
    > try Google?
    >
    > Matt



    Matt,
    I have not tried google yet. However there is a local University where I
    intend to build.
    Michelle
     
    Michelle P, Oct 8, 2005
    #12
  13. Michelle P

    RicodJour Guest

    Michelle P wrote:
    > Matt Whiting wrote:
    >
    > > Michelle P wrote:
    > >
    > >> I am looking at building a mostly buried monolithic dome in the next
    > >> 18 months. One major question. How much dirt will it take to get an R
    > >> value 0f 30? 40? 50?

    > >
    > >
    > > Depends a lot on the type of dirt and its moisture content. I don't
    > > have an answer for you, but if you have a local university with a
    > > civil engineering department they might be able to help you. Did you
    > > try Google?
    > >
    > > Matt

    >
    >
    > Matt,
    > I have not tried google yet. However there is a local University where I
    > intend to build.


    ....you haven't tried Google yet...

    Why the hell not? It's a waste of your time, and everyone else's, to
    use a newsgroup instead of taking 30 seconds to do a search. Sheesh.

    http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=insulation value soil&btnG=Google Search

    R
     
    RicodJour, Oct 8, 2005
    #13
  14. Michelle P

    Michelle P Guest

    For your info I have looked at google and it was useless. It talked
    mostly about how to remove dirt from insulation.
    Google is not the answer to everything.

    RicodJour wrote:

    >Michelle P wrote:
    >
    >
    >>Matt Whiting wrote:
    >>
    >>
    >>
    >>>Michelle P wrote:
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>>I am looking at building a mostly buried monolithic dome in the next
    >>>>18 months. One major question. How much dirt will it take to get an R
    >>>>value 0f 30? 40? 50?
    >>>>
    >>>>
    >>>Depends a lot on the type of dirt and its moisture content. I don't
    >>>have an answer for you, but if you have a local university with a
    >>>civil engineering department they might be able to help you. Did you
    >>>try Google?
    >>>
    >>>Matt
    >>>
    >>>

    >>Matt,
    >>I have not tried google yet. However there is a local University where I
    >>intend to build.
    >>
    >>

    >
    >...you haven't tried Google yet...
    >
    >Why the hell not? It's a waste of your time, and everyone else's, to
    >use a newsgroup instead of taking 30 seconds to do a search. Sheesh.
    >
    >http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=insulation value soil&btnG=Google Search
    >
    >R
    >
    >
    >
     
    Michelle P, Oct 8, 2005
    #14
  15. Michelle P

    RicodJour Guest

    Michelle P wrote:
    > >Michelle P wrote:
    > >>Matt Whiting wrote:
    > >>>Michelle P wrote:
    > >>>
    > >>>>I am looking at building a mostly buried monolithic dome in the next
    > >>>>18 months. One major question. How much dirt will it take to get an R
    > >>>>value 0f 30? 40? 50?
    > >>>>
    > >>>Depends a lot on the type of dirt and its moisture content. I don't
    > >>>have an answer for you, but if you have a local university with a
    > >>>civil engineering department they might be able to help you. Did you
    > >>>try Google?
    > >>>
    > >>>Matt
    > >>>
    > >>I have not tried google yet. However there is a local University where I
    > >>intend to build.

    > >
    > >...you haven't tried Google yet...
    > >
    > >Why the hell not? It's a waste of your time, and everyone else's, to
    > >use a newsgroup instead of taking 30 seconds to do a search. Sheesh.
    > >
    > >http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=insulation value soil&btnG=Google Search
    > >

    > For your info I have looked at google and it was useless. It talked
    > mostly about how to remove dirt from insulation.
    > Google is not the answer to everything.


    No, it is not the answer to everything. There are things like laziness
    that it can't help you with.

    Let me guess - you didn't even bother to look at that link to the
    Google search I did for you, did you? That's exactly what I mean about
    your wasting peoples' time, including yours.

    Matt suggested contacting a university, which is good advice. Check
    out the second and third results in that Google search - those are
    university web pages that deal with insulation values and address soil
    values.

    If you'd like, I could write up a synopsis and mail it to you. I
    wouldn't want to make this anymore inconvenient for you.

    R
     
    RicodJour, Oct 8, 2005
    #15
  16. Michelle P

    Michelle P Guest

    Well, I did not get much past your flame. My search was different than
    yours. Different people different thought processes. That is the value
    of the internet. Connecting with people who are different than oneself
    and "hearing" their idea's. Please take your negativity somewhere else.
    I came here to learn, not get verbally abused.
    Michelle

    RicodJour wrote:

    >Michelle P wrote:
    >
    >
    >>>Michelle P wrote:
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>>Matt Whiting wrote:
    >>>>
    >>>>
    >>>>>Michelle P wrote:
    >>>>>
    >>>>>
    >>>>>
    >>>>>>I am looking at building a mostly buried monolithic dome in the next
    >>>>>>18 months. One major question. How much dirt will it take to get an R
    >>>>>>value 0f 30? 40? 50?
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>Depends a lot on the type of dirt and its moisture content. I don't
    >>>>>have an answer for you, but if you have a local university with a
    >>>>>civil engineering department they might be able to help you. Did you
    >>>>>try Google?
    >>>>>
    >>>>>Matt
    >>>>>
    >>>>>
    >>>>>
    >>>>I have not tried google yet. However there is a local University where I
    >>>>intend to build.
    >>>>
    >>>>
    >>>...you haven't tried Google yet...
    >>>
    >>>Why the hell not? It's a waste of your time, and everyone else's, to
    >>>use a newsgroup instead of taking 30 seconds to do a search. Sheesh.
    >>>
    >>>http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=insulation value soil&btnG=Google Search
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>

    >>For your info I have looked at google and it was useless. It talked
    >>mostly about how to remove dirt from insulation.
    >>Google is not the answer to everything.
    >>
    >>

    >
    >No, it is not the answer to everything. There are things like laziness
    >that it can't help you with.
    >
    >Let me guess - you didn't even bother to look at that link to the
    >Google search I did for you, did you? That's exactly what I mean about
    >your wasting peoples' time, including yours.
    >
    >Matt suggested contacting a university, which is good advice. Check
    >out the second and third results in that Google search - those are
    >university web pages that deal with insulation values and address soil
    >values.
    >
    >If you'd like, I could write up a synopsis and mail it to you. I
    >wouldn't want to make this anymore inconvenient for you.
    >
    >R
    >
    >
    >
     
    Michelle P, Oct 8, 2005
    #16
  17. Michelle P

    RicodJour Guest

    Michelle P wrote:
    > Well, I did not get much past your flame. My search was different than
    > yours. Different people different thought processes. That is the value
    > of the internet. Connecting with people who are different than oneself
    > and "hearing" their idea's. Please take your negativity somewhere else.
    > I came here to learn, not get verbally abused.


    Fine. Here's the short course:
    1). Don't top post - it's tougher to follow what you're responding to.
    Check out "newsgroup etiquette" on Google if you need independent
    verification.
    2). Don't waffle. You wrote that you hadn't tried Googling. Then
    forty minutes later you wrote that you had tried Google and it was
    useless. If you didn't try Google, you're lazy. If you did try it and
    didn't find what you need, your search technique needs some work.
    3). If someone takes the time to respond to your post and includes a
    link it probably has some pertinence to your question. It might even
    have the answer. Do us all the favor and take a look at it.
    4). You are totally misguided on the way in which an earth sheltered
    home behaves with respect to insulation value of the soil. This has
    been pointed out to you by several people. If you want to learn, you
    have to listen.
    5). Good luck with your project. You will need it.

    R
     
    RicodJour, Oct 8, 2005
    #17
  18. Michelle P

    Michelle P Guest

    Michelle P wrote:

    > I am looking at building a mostly buried monolithic dome in the next
    > 18 months. One major question. How much dirt will it take to get an R
    > value 0f 30? 40? 50?
    >
    > Going off grid,
    > Michelle


    I wanted to thank you all except RicodJour for your responses. I have
    learned that my idea needs work and professional help. I have about a
    year before we start building. Lots of time for research.

    Sorry for the top posting. That is the way my reader does it. This is
    the first group that has ever complained about this. To me it makes more
    sense. You read the new info first and if you are following the post the
    rest "history".

    Michelle
     
    Michelle P, Oct 8, 2005
    #18
  19. Michelle P

    Matt Whiting Guest

    Michelle P wrote:

    > Sorry for the top posting. That is the way my reader does it. This is
    > the first group that has ever complained about this. To me it makes more
    > sense. You read the new info first and if you are following the post the
    > rest "history".


    There is certainly a lot of debate about top vs. bottom posting, but for
    me bottom posting is the way to go for two reasons:

    1. I often can't follow newsgroups in real time and sometimes come in a
    week after a thread started. I can read the last message and get the
    gist of things easily with bottom posting. Not so with top posting as
    read bottom up is a pain and certainly not the convention in the USA or
    most of the English speaking world.

    2. The orginators of usenet specified bottom posting. Most newsreaders
    can be set to bottom post. The problem is that a brain dead and
    arrogant company named Microsoft made top posting the default in their
    browser and now the masses who weren't even born when many of us started
    to use usenet, think top posting is the only option.


    Matt
     
    Matt Whiting, Oct 8, 2005
    #19
  20. Michelle P

    Andy Asberry Guest

    On 8 Oct 2005 11:48:25 -0700, "RicodJour" <>
    wrote:

    >Michelle P wrote:
    >> Matt Whiting wrote:
    >>
    >> > Michelle P wrote:
    >> >
    >> >> I am looking at building a mostly buried monolithic dome in the next
    >> >> 18 months. One major question. How much dirt will it take to get an R
    >> >> value 0f 30? 40? 50?
    >> >
    >> >
    >> > Depends a lot on the type of dirt and its moisture content. I don't
    >> > have an answer for you, but if you have a local university with a
    >> > civil engineering department they might be able to help you. Did you
    >> > try Google?
    >> >
    >> > Matt

    >>
    >>
    >> Matt,
    >> I have not tried google yet. However there is a local University where I
    >> intend to build.

    >
    >...you haven't tried Google yet...
    >
    >Why the hell not? It's a waste of your time, and everyone else's, to
    >use a newsgroup instead of taking 30 seconds to do a search. Sheesh.
    >
    >http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=insulation value soil&btnG=Google Search
    >
    >R


    You're saying everyone should simply do a Google search and not use a
    newsgroup. "Why the hell not?" Because she would have missed the
    insight and wisdom of your brilliant reply.

    Google is great but it is not the answer to everything.

    The lady came here not acting like a know-it-all; asking for
    experiences and opinions. Many gave her the correct answer even though
    she asked the wrong question. She accepted the advice to bottom post.
    She endured your ranting about Google and she was still courteous and
    respectful. Good manners are never out of style. Hat's off to you,
    ma'am.
     
    Andy Asberry, Oct 9, 2005
    #20
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