Netaheat profile 60e - Pilot light won't light

Discussion in 'Misc DIY' started by Neal, Feb 26, 2007.

  1. Neal

    Neal Guest

    I have a Netaheat profile 60e


    Symptoms:
    No main burn
    No pilot light
    Fan is running
    no 'sparking sound' to be heard
    The 'cutout' (?) button on the bottom is not out (in the past, the
    boiler has occasionally cut out, and this button pops out. Pushing and
    holding it in relights the pilot, and then the main burn)

    Any ideas??

    Neal
     
    Neal, Feb 26, 2007
    #1
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  2. Neal

    gasman pete Guest

    On 26 Feb, 19:51, "Neal" <> wrote:
    > I have a Netaheat profile 60e
    >
    > Symptoms:
    > No main burn
    > No pilot light
    > Fan is running
    > no 'sparking sound' to be heard
    > The 'cutout' (?) button on the bottom is not out (in the past, the
    > boiler has occasionally cut out, and this button pops out. Pushing and
    > holding it in relights the pilot, and then the main burn)
    >
    > Any ideas??
    >
    > Neal


    first thing you should look at is the air pressure switch as that is
    next in sequence, check for split pipes or blocked conections,
    hope that helps
    pete
     
    gasman pete, Feb 26, 2007
    #2
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  3. Neal

    raden Guest

    In message <>, Neal
    <> writes
    >I have a Netaheat profile 60e
    >
    >
    >Symptoms:
    >No main burn
    >No pilot light
    >Fan is running
    >no 'sparking sound' to be heard
    >The 'cutout' (?) button on the bottom is not out (in the past, the
    >boiler has occasionally cut out, and this button pops out. Pushing and
    >holding it in relights the pilot, and then the main burn)
    >

    Is the fan transferring the air pressure switch from normally closed to
    normally open ?

    If the APS isn't changing state, then it won't progress to opening the
    pilot and sparking


    --
    geoff
     
    raden, Feb 26, 2007
    #3
  4. Neal

    Neal Guest

    On Feb 26, 9:48 pm, raden <> wrote:
    > In message <>, Neal
    > <> writes>I have a Netaheat profile 60e
    >
    > >Symptoms:
    > >No main burn
    > >No pilot light
    > >Fan is running
    > >no 'sparking sound' to be heard
    > >The 'cutout' (?) button on the bottom is not out (in the past, the
    > >boiler has occasionally cut out, and this button pops out. Pushing and
    > >holding it in relights the pilot, and then the main burn)

    >
    > Is the fan transferring the air pressure switch from normally closed to
    > normally open ?
    >
    > If the APS isn't changing state, then it won't progress to opening the
    > pilot and sparking
    >
    > --
    > geoff


    When I switch it on, and the fan sarts up, there is a delay, and then
    a click of sorts. - I think this is the air pressure switch tripping?
    But then - nothing
     
    Neal, Feb 27, 2007
    #4
  5. Neal

    gasman pete Guest

    On 27 Feb, 11:11, "Neal" <> wrote:
    > On Feb 26, 9:48 pm, raden <> wrote:
    >
    >
    >
    > > In message <>, Neal
    > > <> writes>I have a Netaheat profile 60e

    >
    > > >Symptoms:
    > > >No main burn
    > > >No pilot light
    > > >Fan is running
    > > >no 'sparking sound' to be heard
    > > >The 'cutout' (?) button on the bottom is not out (in the past, the
    > > >boiler has occasionally cut out, and this button pops out. Pushing and
    > > >holding it in relights the pilot, and then the main burn)

    >
    > > Is the fan transferring the air pressure switch from normally closed to
    > > normally open ?

    >
    > > If the APS isn't changing state, then it won't progress to opening the
    > > pilot and sparking

    >
    > > --
    > > geoff

    >
    > When I switch it on, and the fan sarts up, there is a delay, and then
    > a click of sorts. - I think this is the air pressure switch tripping?
    > But then - nothing
     
    gasman pete, Feb 27, 2007
    #5
  6. Neal

    gasman pete Guest

    there was a problem with the early models that the spark gap opened
    up due to the groung post (bent piece of metal ) moving away from the
    spark electrode, there should be about 3.5 mm gap try that,
    pete
     
    gasman pete, Feb 27, 2007
    #6
  7. Neal

    Ed Sirett Guest

    On Tue, 27 Feb 2007 03:11:18 -0800, Neal wrote:

    > On Feb 26, 9:48 pm, raden <> wrote:
    >> In message <>, Neal
    >> <> writes>I have a Netaheat profile 60e
    >>
    >> >Symptoms:
    >> >No main burn
    >> >No pilot light
    >> >Fan is running
    >> >no 'sparking sound' to be heard
    >> >The 'cutout' (?) button on the bottom is not out (in the past, the
    >> >boiler has occasionally cut out, and this button pops out. Pushing and
    >> >holding it in relights the pilot, and then the main burn)

    >>
    >> Is the fan transferring the air pressure switch from normally closed to
    >> normally open ?
    >>
    >> If the APS isn't changing state, then it won't progress to opening the
    >> pilot and sparking
    >>
    >> --
    >> geoff

    >
    > When I switch it on, and the fan sarts up, there is a delay, and then
    > a click of sorts. - I think this is the air pressure switch tripping?
    > But then - nothing


    Th "click of sorts" could be the APS and PCB relay moving. It might also
    be the click of the pilot gas valve which would happen 'simultaneously'
    with those clicks.

    Since there is no sparking the chances are that the spark lead is
    shorted or the spark generator (PCB module) is kaput. You might be able to
    get another clue by seeing if there is any smell of gas from the flue
    terminal - this would show that the pilot gas valve has opened.

    I think the correct sounds should be
    Whirr (the fan) : 5-10 seconds (there are flow restrictors in the APS
    tubes) : tick (APS switch)+click (PCB relay)+chonk(pilot gv) :
    tick-tick-tick (HT sparker): silence a second or so (pilot lit but
    flame sense making up it's mind) : CHONK (main GV) : hiss (gas flowing) :
    woomph (gas ignites).

    HTH

    --
    Ed Sirett - Property maintainer and registered gas fitter.
    The FAQ for uk.diy is at http://www.diyfaq.org.uk
    Gas fitting FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/GasFitting.html
    Sealed CH FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/SealedCH.html
    Choosing a Boiler FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/BoilerChoice.html
    Gas Fitting Standards Docs here: http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/GasFittingStandards
     
    Ed Sirett, Feb 27, 2007
    #7
  8. Neal

    raden Guest

    In message <>, Neal
    <> writes
    >On Feb 26, 9:48 pm, raden <> wrote:
    >> In message <>, Neal
    >> <> writes>I have a Netaheat profile 60e
    >>
    >> >Symptoms:
    >> >No main burn
    >> >No pilot light
    >> >Fan is running
    >> >no 'sparking sound' to be heard
    >> >The 'cutout' (?) button on the bottom is not out (in the past, the
    >> >boiler has occasionally cut out, and this button pops out. Pushing and
    >> >holding it in relights the pilot, and then the main burn)

    >>
    >> Is the fan transferring the air pressure switch from normally closed to
    >> normally open ?
    >>
    >> If the APS isn't changing state, then it won't progress to opening the
    >> pilot and sparking
    >>
    >> --
    >> geoff

    >
    >When I switch it on, and the fan sarts up, there is a delay, and then
    >a click of sorts. - I think this is the air pressure switch tripping?
    >But then - nothing
    >


    Ah - there are two clicks

    one from the APS and the other from a relay on the pcb

    You've reached the stage where it is either necessary to measure
    something or be bold and operate the APS manually. I don't think that
    the latter option is a good idea if you don't understand what you're
    doing. To perform the former also requires you to be competent to make
    electrical measurements


    --
    geoff
     
    raden, Feb 27, 2007
    #8
  9. Neal

    raden Guest

    In message <>,
    gasman pete <> writes
    >there was a problem with the early models that the spark gap opened
    >up due to the groung post (bent piece of metal ) moving away from the
    >spark electrode, there should be about 3.5 mm gap try that,
    >pete
    >

    Nah - I don't think so

    you'd still hear the spark discharging somewhere, even if not at the
    electrode. There is a spark gap on the back of the pcb just for that
    purpose


    --
    geoff
     
    raden, Feb 27, 2007
    #9
  10. Neal

    raden Guest

    In message <es20t6$9r$4$>, Ed Sirett
    <> writes
    >>
    >> When I switch it on, and the fan sarts up, there is a delay, and then
    >> a click of sorts. - I think this is the air pressure switch tripping?
    >> But then - nothing

    >
    >Th "click of sorts" could be the APS and PCB relay moving. It might also
    >be the click of the pilot gas valve which would happen 'simultaneously'
    >with those clicks.
    >
    >Since there is no sparking the chances are that the spark lead is
    >shorted


    No - you'd still hear the spark gap on the primary discharging, it's
    just that it's drowned out by the secondary spark during normal
    operation

    BTW, did an Indian lady phone you today ?

    I took the liberty of giving her your phone number



    --
    geoff
     
    raden, Feb 27, 2007
    #10
  11. Neal

    Neal Guest

    On 27 Feb, 19:30, Ed Sirett <> wrote:
    > On Tue, 27 Feb 2007 03:11:18 -0800, Neal wrote:
    > > On Feb 26, 9:48 pm, raden <> wrote:
    > >> In message <>, Neal
    > >> <> writes>I have a Netaheat profile 60e

    >
    > >> >Symptoms:
    > >> >No main burn
    > >> >No pilot light
    > >> >Fan is running
    > >> >no 'sparking sound' to be heard
    > >> >The 'cutout' (?) button on the bottom is not out (in the past, the
    > >> >boiler has occasionally cut out, and this button pops out. Pushing and
    > >> >holding it in relights the pilot, and then the main burn)

    >
    > >> Is the fan transferring the air pressure switch from normally closed to
    > >> normally open ?

    >
    > >> If the APS isn't changing state, then it won't progress to opening the
    > >> pilot and sparking

    >
    > >> --
    > >> geoff

    >
    > > When I switch it on, and the fan sarts up, there is a delay, and then
    > > a click of sorts. - I think this is the air pressure switch tripping?
    > > But then - nothing

    >
    > Th "click of sorts" could be the APS and PCB relay moving. It might also
    > be the click of the pilot gas valve which would happen 'simultaneously'
    > with those clicks.
    >
    > Since there is no sparking the chances are that the spark lead is
    > shorted or the spark generator (PCB module) is kaput. You might be able to
    > get another clue by seeing if there is any smell of gas from the flue
    > terminal - this would show that the pilot gas valve has opened.
    >
    > I think the correct sounds should be
    > Whirr (the fan) : 5-10 seconds (there are flow restrictors in the APS
    > tubes) : tick (APS switch)+click (PCB relay)+chonk(pilot gv) :
    > tick-tick-tick (HT sparker): silence a second or so (pilot lit but
    > flame sense making up it's mind) : CHONK (main GV) : hiss (gas flowing) :
    > woomph (gas ignites).
    >
    > HTH
    >
    > --
    > Ed Sirett - Property maintainer and registered gas fitter.
    > The FAQ for uk.diy is athttp://www.diyfaq.org.uk
    > Gas fitting FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/GasFitting.html
    > Sealed CH FAQhttp://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/SealedCH.html
    > Choosing a Boiler FAQhttp://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/BoilerChoice.html
    > Gas Fitting Standards Docs here:http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/GasFittingStandards


    Thanks

    All the answers have been useful, but I vote this the most useful to
    me who is not quite sure of what is going on.
    >From this I strongly suspect it is my PCB.

    After the fan starts, I am hearing a sound more like a "chonk", which
    suggest from the above the pilot valvle IS opening. But then no sparks
    I also think I can smell a whiff of gas in the flue.

    I think I have reached the limit of my knowledge, so I have a guy
    coming this afternoon (name found in littlegreenbook.co.uk- wish me
    luck)
    I have told him I strongly the suspect the PCB, so he has agreed to
    try and bring a re[placement with him...
     
    Neal, Feb 28, 2007
    #11
  12. Neal

    raden Guest

    In message <>, Neal
    <> writes
    >All the answers have been useful, but I vote this the most useful to
    >me who is not quite sure of what is going on.
    >>From this I strongly suspect it is my PCB.

    >After the fan starts, I am hearing a sound more like a "chonk", which
    >suggest from the above the pilot valvle IS opening. But then no sparks
    >I also think I can smell a whiff of gas in the flue.
    >
    >I think I have reached the limit of my knowledge, so I have a guy
    >coming this afternoon (name found in littlegreenbook.co.uk- wish me
    >luck)
    >I have told him I strongly the suspect the PCB, so he has agreed to
    >try and bring a re[placement with him...
    >

    I take it, you've seen my site

    www.cetltd.com


    --
    geoff
     
    raden, Feb 28, 2007
    #12
  13. Neal

    Neal Guest

    On 28 Feb, 20:15, raden <> wrote:
    > In message <>, Neal
    > <> writes>All the answers have been useful, but I vote this the most useful to
    > >me who is not quite sure of what is going on.
    > >>From this I strongly suspect it is my PCB.

    > >After the fan starts, I am hearing a sound more like a "chonk", which
    > >suggest from the above the pilot valvle IS opening. But then no sparks
    > >I also think I can smell a whiff of gas in the flue.

    >
    > >I think I have reached the limit of my knowledge, so I have a guy
    > >coming this afternoon (name found in littlegreenbook.co.uk- wish me
    > >luck)
    > >I have told him I strongly the suspect the PCB, so he has agreed to
    > >try and bring a re[placement with him...

    >
    > I take it, you've seen my site
    >
    > www.cetltd.com
    >
    > --
    > geoff


    Oddly enough, I just found your site from a link on the Fool.co.uk
    site

    Turns out it was the air pressure switch after all. It had stuck
    A knock, and it worked again....untill yesterday.
    Another knock then and it worked...Until this morning
    This morning: the fan has packed in. I feel like the the dutch boy
    with his thumb

    So, I am planning to get a new boiler (old one is clearly dying)
    But in the meantime (my friendly plumber is on holiday) I need a quick
    fix (2 small children....)
    So Geoff, expect a call in the morning for a ("new") fan

    Neal
     
    Neal, Mar 4, 2007
    #13
  14. Neal

    raden Guest

    In message <>, Neal
    <> writes
    >On 28 Feb, 20:15, raden <> wrote:
    >> In message <>, Neal
    >> <> writes>All the answers have been useful, but I
    >>vote this the most useful to
    >> >me who is not quite sure of what is going on.
    >> >>From this I strongly suspect it is my PCB.
    >> >After the fan starts, I am hearing a sound more like a "chonk", which
    >> >suggest from the above the pilot valvle IS opening. But then no sparks
    >> >I also think I can smell a whiff of gas in the flue.

    >>
    >> >I think I have reached the limit of my knowledge, so I have a guy
    >> >coming this afternoon (name found in littlegreenbook.co.uk- wish me
    >> >luck)
    >> >I have told him I strongly the suspect the PCB, so he has agreed to
    >> >try and bring a re[placement with him...

    >>
    >> I take it, you've seen my site
    >>
    >> www.cetltd.com
    >>
    >> --
    >> geoff

    >
    >Oddly enough, I just found your site from a link on the Fool.co.uk
    >site
    >
    >Turns out it was the air pressure switch after all. It had stuck
    >A knock, and it worked again....untill yesterday.
    >Another knock then and it worked...Until this morning
    >This morning: the fan has packed in. I feel like the the dutch boy
    >with his thumb
    >
    >So, I am planning to get a new boiler (old one is clearly dying)
    >But in the meantime (my friendly plumber is on holiday) I need a quick
    >fix (2 small children....)
    >So Geoff, expect a call in the morning for a ("new") fan
    >

    If the APS is knackered, it will not bring on the fan

    It needs a good short circuit between the normally closed and common on
    the APS to allow the fan to work

    I'm not sure that your "clearly dying" diagnosis is necessarily anywhere
    close to the mark

    I'm not sure of the price of an APS, but added to £75 ++ for a fan AND
    pcb would be far less than the cost of replacing the boiler at £1500 or
    more


    --
    geoff
     
    raden, Mar 4, 2007
    #14
  15. Neal

    Ed Sirett Guest

    On Sun, 04 Mar 2007 18:52:11 +0000, raden wrote:

    > In message <>, Neal
    > <> writes
    >>On 28 Feb, 20:15, raden <> wrote:
    >>> In message <>, Neal
    >>> <> writes>All the answers have been useful, but I
    >>>vote this the most useful to
    >>> >me who is not quite sure of what is going on.
    >>> >>From this I strongly suspect it is my PCB.
    >>> >After the fan starts, I am hearing a sound more like a "chonk", which
    >>> >suggest from the above the pilot valvle IS opening. But then no sparks
    >>> >I also think I can smell a whiff of gas in the flue.
    >>>
    >>> >I think I have reached the limit of my knowledge, so I have a guy
    >>> >coming this afternoon (name found in littlegreenbook.co.uk- wish me
    >>> >luck)
    >>> >I have told him I strongly the suspect the PCB, so he has agreed to
    >>> >try and bring a re[placement with him...
    >>>
    >>> I take it, you've seen my site
    >>>
    >>> www.cetltd.com
    >>>
    >>> --
    >>> geoff

    >>
    >>Oddly enough, I just found your site from a link on the Fool.co.uk
    >>site
    >>
    >>Turns out it was the air pressure switch after all. It had stuck
    >>A knock, and it worked again....untill yesterday.
    >>Another knock then and it worked...Until this morning
    >>This morning: the fan has packed in. I feel like the the dutch boy
    >>with his thumb
    >>
    >>So, I am planning to get a new boiler (old one is clearly dying)
    >>But in the meantime (my friendly plumber is on holiday) I need a quick
    >>fix (2 small children....)
    >>So Geoff, expect a call in the morning for a ("new") fan
    >>

    > If the APS is knackered, it will not bring on the fan
    >
    > It needs a good short circuit between the normally closed and common on
    > the APS to allow the fan to work
    >
    > I'm not sure that your "clearly dying" diagnosis is necessarily anywhere
    > close to the mark
    >
    > I'm not sure of the price of an APS, but added to £75 ++ for a fan AND
    > pcb would be far less than the cost of replacing the boiler at £1500 or
    > more
    >


    It's not replacing the boiler that costs. It's upgrading the heating
    system to comply with Part L




    --
    Ed Sirett - Property maintainer and registered gas fitter.
    The FAQ for uk.diy is at http://www.diyfaq.org.uk
    Gas fitting FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/GasFitting.html
    Sealed CH FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/SealedCH.html
    Choosing a Boiler FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/BoilerChoice.html
    Gas Fitting Standards Docs here: http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/GasFittingStandards
     
    Ed Sirett, Mar 4, 2007
    #15
  16. Neal

    raden Guest

    In message <esfij6$qq0$3$>, Ed Sirett
    <> writes
    >>>
    >>>Oddly enough, I just found your site from a link on the Fool.co.uk
    >>>site
    >>>
    >>>Turns out it was the air pressure switch after all. It had stuck
    >>>A knock, and it worked again....untill yesterday.
    >>>Another knock then and it worked...Until this morning
    >>>This morning: the fan has packed in. I feel like the the dutch boy
    >>>with his thumb
    >>>
    >>>So, I am planning to get a new boiler (old one is clearly dying)
    >>>But in the meantime (my friendly plumber is on holiday) I need a quick
    >>>fix (2 small children....)
    >>>So Geoff, expect a call in the morning for a ("new") fan
    >>>

    >> If the APS is knackered, it will not bring on the fan
    >>
    >> It needs a good short circuit between the normally closed and common on
    >> the APS to allow the fan to work
    >>
    >> I'm not sure that your "clearly dying" diagnosis is necessarily anywhere
    >> close to the mark
    >>
    >> I'm not sure of the price of an APS, but added to £75 ++ for a fan AND
    >> pcb would be far less than the cost of replacing the boiler at £1500 or
    >> more
    >>

    >
    >It's not replacing the boiler that costs. It's upgrading the heating
    >system to comply with Part L
    >

    Hence the £1500+ price tag ...


    --
    geoff
     
    raden, Mar 4, 2007
    #16
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