Honda GX200 exhaust question.

Discussion in 'UK DIY' started by T i m, May 25, 2010.

  1. T i m

    T i m Guest

    Hi All,

    I've just picked up a second hand GX200 powered 3KVA genny and there
    is what looks like a fine mesh disk rattling about in the actual
    exhaust outlet. It would fall out but it's otherwise trapped by the
    other heat shield.

    I think the PO suggested there may have been an additional outer
    deflector on the exhaust box and I'm wondering if that also had
    something to do with holding whatever_this_is in place?

    Does anyone have such an engine and know how that area is supposed to
    go together please?

    If there are some bits missing, would you know if they are available
    separately, if not, would one of the aftermarket exhausts on eBay be
    ok (ok = no noisier and give full power etc).

    On that and if I am going to get a new exhaust anyway, I have here a
    fairly new exhaust off a 125cc 4/ scooter [1] that, with a bit of
    tweaking and in the spirit of d-i-y etc could be made to fit within
    the general genny frame (it's an open cage type). Would you think this
    might be quieter than the stock exhaust, if bigger is better it should
    be and as I already have it etc?

    Cheers, T i m

    [1] I think the (125cc) scooter did about 8K rpm and this (200cc)
    Honda does about 4k rpm so I don't think the exhaust would be two
    restrictive.
     
    T i m, May 25, 2010
    #1
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  2. T i m

    spamlet Guest

    "T i m" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > Hi All,
    >
    > I've just picked up a second hand GX200 powered 3KVA genny and there
    > is what looks like a fine mesh disk rattling about in the actual
    > exhaust outlet. It would fall out but it's otherwise trapped by the
    > other heat shield.
    >
    > I think the PO suggested there may have been an additional outer
    > deflector on the exhaust box and I'm wondering if that also had
    > something to do with holding whatever_this_is in place?
    >
    > Does anyone have such an engine and know how that area is supposed to
    > go together please?
    >
    > If there are some bits missing, would you know if they are available
    > separately, if not, would one of the aftermarket exhausts on eBay be
    > ok (ok = no noisier and give full power etc).
    >
    > On that and if I am going to get a new exhaust anyway, I have here a
    > fairly new exhaust off a 125cc 4/ scooter [1] that, with a bit of
    > tweaking and in the spirit of d-i-y etc could be made to fit within
    > the general genny frame (it's an open cage type). Would you think this
    > might be quieter than the stock exhaust, if bigger is better it should
    > be and as I already have it etc?
    >
    > Cheers, T i m
    >
    > [1] I think the (125cc) scooter did about 8K rpm and this (200cc)
    > Honda does about 4k rpm so I don't think the exhaust would be two
    > restrictive.


    I have no idea about the innards of modern bikes or their exhausts, but
    exhausts are *supposed* to be designed so that any pressure waves set up in
    them assist rather than interfere with the smooth working of the engine.
    Each could be said to be 'tuned' for the engine it was designed for. That
    said, it has never stopped people going for appearance rather than power and
    quietness... - or indeed stainless rather than instant rot and cost a
    fortune standard items.

    S
     
    spamlet, May 25, 2010
    #2
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  3. T i m

    T i m Guest

    On Tue, 25 May 2010 19:27:59 +0100, "spamlet"
    <> wrote:


    >>
    >> [1] I think the (125cc) scooter did about 8K rpm and this (200cc)
    >> Honda does about 4k rpm so I don't think the exhaust would be two
    >> restrictive.

    >
    >I have no idea about the innards of modern bikes or their exhausts, but
    >exhausts are *supposed* to be designed so that any pressure waves set up in
    >them assist rather than interfere with the smooth working of the engine.


    True, although I think that may apply more to 2/'s than 4/'s

    >Each could be said to be 'tuned' for the engine it was designed for.


    And even tuned further on that particular engine and it's tuning. When
    I used to race power RC catamarans a few mm on (or off) the length of
    the exhaust could make a big difference.

    > That
    >said, it has never stopped people going for appearance rather than power and
    >quietness... - or indeed stainless rather than instant rot and cost a
    >fortune standard items.


    The 'factory stock' (stainless) exhaust supplied when we built the
    kitcar was *way* too noisy for me so I fitted a slightly shortened ss
    aftermarket std Escort one (Grundy?). Been on there over 20 years now.
    ;-)

    My thought on this genny was that the stock exhaust wasn't very
    sophisticated (like a lawnmower jobby) and whilst ok a tickover was
    quite loud under any real load. If I'm going to replace the exhaust
    with a new stock one (this bit rattling makes it annoyingly noisy as
    well) I might saw the box off the stub and try tack the scooter one on
    with some silicone tube and see how it works.

    The thing is I don't know how much mechanical noise is coming from the
    engine itself but if I port the exhaust away from the unit a bit I
    might be able to soundproof it a touch.

    Cheers, T i m
     
    T i m, May 26, 2010
    #3
  4. T i m

    spamlet Guest

    "T i m" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > On Tue, 25 May 2010 19:27:59 +0100, "spamlet"
    > <> wrote:
    >
    >
    >>>
    >>> [1] I think the (125cc) scooter did about 8K rpm and this (200cc)
    >>> Honda does about 4k rpm so I don't think the exhaust would be two
    >>> restrictive.

    >>
    >>I have no idea about the innards of modern bikes or their exhausts, but
    >>exhausts are *supposed* to be designed so that any pressure waves set up
    >>in
    >>them assist rather than interfere with the smooth working of the engine.

    >
    > True, although I think that may apply more to 2/'s than 4/'s
    >
    >>Each could be said to be 'tuned' for the engine it was designed for.

    >
    > And even tuned further on that particular engine and it's tuning. When
    > I used to race power RC catamarans a few mm on (or off) the length of
    > the exhaust could make a big difference.
    >
    >> That
    >>said, it has never stopped people going for appearance rather than power
    >>and
    >>quietness... - or indeed stainless rather than instant rot and cost a
    >>fortune standard items.

    >
    > The 'factory stock' (stainless) exhaust supplied when we built the
    > kitcar was *way* too noisy for me so I fitted a slightly shortened ss
    > aftermarket std Escort one (Grundy?). Been on there over 20 years now.
    > ;-)
    >
    > My thought on this genny was that the stock exhaust wasn't very
    > sophisticated (like a lawnmower jobby) and whilst ok a tickover was
    > quite loud under any real load. If I'm going to replace the exhaust
    > with a new stock one (this bit rattling makes it annoyingly noisy as
    > well) I might saw the box off the stub and try tack the scooter one on
    > with some silicone tube and see how it works.
    >
    > The thing is I don't know how much mechanical noise is coming from the
    > engine itself but if I port the exhaust away from the unit a bit I
    > might be able to soundproof it a touch.
    >
    > Cheers, T i m
    >


    :) There's me showing my ignorance again: after a garage full of bits on
    numerous occasions Honda to me means bike: should have googled first!
    Anyhow, always admired the insides of the Hondas, and I expect the general
    purpose engines are just as good. I can't seem to make their parts list let
    me in (probably a cookie thing), but you can get a manual here if it might
    be useful:

    http://www.honda-engines.com/Engines_owners_manuals/ownersmanuals/gx200.htm

    Looks like plenty of scope for kits with these things if one consults google
    images.

    Cheers,
    S
     
    spamlet, May 26, 2010
    #4
  5. T i m

    T i m Guest

    On Wed, 26 May 2010 00:39:41 +0100, "spamlet"
    <> wrote:


    >:) There's me showing my ignorance again: after a garage full of bits on
    >numerous occasions Honda to me means bike: should have googled first!


    ;-)

    >Anyhow, always admired the insides of the Hondas, and I expect the general
    >purpose engines are just as good.


    Me too. I have a little CB 'Two Fifty' and it starts first press every
    time. But then I've always had luck with Yamaha kit. I have a little
    2hp Yamaha outboard that weights nothing yet used to put my 14'
    sailing dinghy on the plane when one up. ;-)

    > I can't seem to make their parts list let
    >me in (probably a cookie thing), but you can get a manual here if it might
    >be useful:
    >
    >http://www.honda-engines.com/Engines_owners_manuals/ownersmanuals/gx200.htm


    Yeah, thanks for that. It was actually the first thing I Googled for
    after getting the beasty. Looking at it again though it does show a
    little tail pipe that might be what is missing on mine.
    >
    >Looks like plenty of scope for kits with these things if one consults google
    >images.
    >

    Yeah, one of the reasons I was interested in this particular genny (I
    had the choice of 3) was *because* it was powered by this Honda
    engine. Nothing more comforting to stick Honda GX200 into eBay or
    Youtube and be inundated with hits. ;-)

    If I can get the parts manual my local bike shop can get parts for me
    with a bit of discount.

    Cheers, T i m
     
    T i m, May 26, 2010
    #5
  6. T i m

    ransley Guest

    On May 25, 12:50 pm, T i m <> wrote:
    > Hi All,
    >
    > I've just picked up a second hand GX200 powered 3KVA genny and there
    > is what looks like a fine mesh disk rattling about in the actual
    > exhaust outlet. It would fall out but it's otherwise trapped by the
    > other heat shield.
    >
    > I think the PO suggested there may have been an additional outer
    > deflector on the exhaust box and I'm wondering if that also had
    > something to do with holding whatever_this_is in place?
    >
    > Does anyone have such an engine and know how that area is supposed to
    > go together please?
    >
    > If there are some bits missing, would you know if they are available
    > separately, if not, would one of the aftermarket exhausts on eBay be
    > ok (ok = no noisier and give full power etc).
    >
    > On that and if I am going to get a new exhaust anyway, I have here a
    > fairly new exhaust off a 125cc 4/ scooter [1] that, with a bit of
    > tweaking and in the spirit of d-i-y etc could be made to fit within
    > the general genny frame (it's an open cage type). Would you think this
    > might be quieter than the stock exhaust, if bigger is better it should
    > be and as I already have it etc?
    >
    > Cheers, T i m
    >
    > [1] I think the (125cc) scooter did about 8K rpm and this (200cc)
    > Honda does about 4k rpm so I don't think the exhaust would be two
    > restrictive.


    the screen would be a fire-spark arrestor, they clog up and reduce
    engine performance dramaticly, remove it unless you use it near
    something that can burn, [ but you dont do that anyway. right]. I
    remove my spark arrestors, Ive had motors nearly not run until they
    were removed.
     
    ransley, May 26, 2010
    #6
  7. On 25 May, 18:50, T i m <> wrote:
    > Hi All,
    >
    > I've just picked up a second hand GX200 powered 3KVA genny and there
    > is what looks like a fine mesh disk rattling about in the actual
    > exhaust outlet. It would fall out but it's otherwise trapped by the
    > other heat shield.
    >
    > I think the PO suggested there may have been an additional outer
    > deflector on the exhaust box and I'm wondering if that also had
    > something to do with holding whatever_this_is in place?
    >
    > Does anyone have such an engine and know how that area is supposed to
    > go together please?
    >
    > If there are some bits missing, would you know if they are available
    > separately, if not, would one of the aftermarket exhausts on eBay be
    > ok (ok = no noisier and give full power etc).
    >
    > On that and if I am going to get a new exhaust anyway, I have here a
    > fairly new exhaust off a 125cc 4/ scooter [1] that, with a bit of
    > tweaking and in the spirit of d-i-y etc could be made to fit within
    > the general genny frame (it's an open cage type). Would you think this
    > might be quieter than the stock exhaust, if bigger is better it should
    > be and as I already have it etc?
    >
    > Cheers, T i m
    >
    > [1] I think the (125cc) scooter did about 8K rpm and this (200cc)
    > Honda does about 4k rpm so I don't think the exhaust would be two
    > restrictive.


    I don't think the type of exhaust would make a huge difference to a
    small single cylinder engine.

    I've been thinking of fitting a silencer off a bike to my Yard Man
    mower. I've never understood why bike exhausts have been subject to
    noise restrictions for decades, but lawnmowers have not. Just think
    how much quieter Sunday afternoons would be.

    cheers
    Richard
     
    geraldthehamster, May 26, 2010
    #7
  8. T i m

    T i m Guest

    On Wed, 26 May 2010 04:47:23 -0700 (PDT), ransley
    <> wrote:


    >
    >the screen would be a fire-spark arrestor,


    Ah, thought it might be.

    > they clog up and reduce
    >engine performance dramaticly,


    Ok.
    > remove it unless you use it near
    >something that can burn, [ but you dont do that anyway. right].


    ;-) I don't but there's a possibility it might be going up to Scotland
    where my daughter could use it for power tools when finishing her
    chainsaw carvings. Would being covered in sawdust and wood-chipping's
    be considered a fire risk? ;-)

    > I
    >remove my spark arrestors, Ive had motors nearly not run until they
    >were removed.


    Funny you should say that. I went round my BIL's a while back and he
    was having issues with a petrol strimmer (lack of power, wouldn't rev
    out etc). Once he recapped what he had already done and being familiar
    with 2/ motorbikes I investigated the exhaust. As you say, it (fine
    mesh) was bunged nearly solid and a good clean fixed it nicely.

    Since posting I've found a parts manual for said engine and it looks
    like the spark arrestor should have been held in via a small screw
    from one side. The missing bit on the outside of the heat shield just
    looks like a pressed steel contoured baffle, generally sending the
    exhaust gasses downwards.

    http://tewarehouse.com/YAM35-25?sc=2&category=60

    More interesting (for me) though is I have also found Honda do a
    'quiet muffler', all be it for the bigger / V-twin models but it looks
    very much like the scooter exhaust I have here.

    Like this:
    http://tewarehouse.com/19-1090

    Also it seems they may do short exhaust stubs that could fit my model
    (for other exhaust variants) that would make the task of trying the
    scooter exhaust much easier.

    http://preview.tinyurl.com/2wxn5ph

    (The GX160 seems to share many parts with the 200).

    Or I can buy a 'performance' flange and make my own pipe manifold.
    ;-)
    http://preview.tinyurl.com/2vn5pg2

    Racing carbs, con rods, all sorts of goodies. ;-)

    http://preview.tinyurl.com/3yuvnpn



    Cheers, T i m
     
    T i m, May 26, 2010
    #8
  9. T i m

    spamlet Guest

    >
    > I've been thinking of fitting a silencer off a bike to my Yard Man
    > mower. I've never understood why bike exhausts have been subject to
    > noise restrictions for decades, but lawnmowers have not. Just think
    > how much quieter Sunday afternoons would be.
    >
    > cheers
    > Richard


    You said it! It would be nice to have at least one day a week when we could
    actually hear the birds, and maybe even a bee or two. I know there are a
    lot of chainsaw enthusiasts out there, but do I have to hear them *every*
    day? Even a 'quiet walk in the woods' is often (well was really, I'm a bit
    stuck in the house now.) an ear splitting experience these days. Don't they
    have a ban on 'Sunday noise' somewhere? Germany?

    S
     
    spamlet, May 26, 2010
    #9
  10. T i m

    geoff Guest

    In message <AMaLn.9$2>, spamlet
    <> writes
    >>
    >> I've been thinking of fitting a silencer off a bike to my Yard Man
    >> mower. I've never understood why bike exhausts have been subject to
    >> noise restrictions for decades, but lawnmowers have not. Just think
    >> how much quieter Sunday afternoons would be.
    >>
    >> cheers
    >> Richard

    >
    >You said it! It would be nice to have at least one day a week when we could
    >actually hear the birds, and maybe even a bee or two. I know there are a
    >lot of chainsaw enthusiasts out there, but do I have to hear them *every*
    >day? Even a 'quiet walk in the woods' is often (well was really, I'm a bit
    >stuck in the house now.) an ear splitting experience these days. Don't they
    >have a ban on 'Sunday noise' somewhere? Germany?
    >

    Yup - disturb the peace on a Sunday in Krautland and you get a knock on
    the door from the boys in green


    --
    geoff
     
    geoff, May 26, 2010
    #10
  11. T i m

    T i m Guest

    On Wed, 26 May 2010 20:01:54 +0100, geoff <> wrote:

    >In message <AMaLn.9$2>, spamlet


    >> Don't they
    >>have a ban on 'Sunday noise' somewhere? Germany?
    >>

    >Yup - disturb the peace on a Sunday in Krautland and you get a knock on
    >the door from the boys in green



    "And where would we be if there were too many rules ... ?" ;-)

    I guess there is a lot of NIMBY no matter what it is.

    Like the other day, I know when we are having a flash of summer out
    there as my eyes start stinging (indoors) from BBQ fumes blowing in
    from all around.

    Luckily we have a adequately equipped kitchen so we don't have to go
    though all that 'burning it outdoors with the flies' nonsense. ;-)

    When we first moved into this area we were one of the youngest couples
    on the block and *we* were the only ones not making the loud noises or
    mowing / trimming / strimming at the crack of dawn every Sunday.

    Luckily as the old folk have all died off the youngsters have replace
    all that garden / lawn nonsense with gravel and slabs so it's just the
    kids on the trampolines and the odd ghetto blaster we have to put up
    with (but not normally till the latter half of the day).

    I even bought an electric chainsaw for daughter to try for small
    carvings to see if that would be acceptable noise wise but it was too
    loud by our judgment.

    Cheers, T i m

    P.S. Geoff, I used that wheel cleaner chemical again today on a second
    hand hdd caddy I bought for my laptop. It looked like it had some
    water damage / corrosion on it and after a quick wash in the sink with
    some of that gear diluted 50:50 it looks like new again. ;-)
     
    T i m, May 26, 2010
    #11
  12. T i m

    geoff Guest

    In message <>, T i m
    <> writes
    >On Wed, 26 May 2010 20:01:54 +0100, geoff <> wrote:
    >
    >>In message <AMaLn.9$2>, spamlet

    >
    >>> Don't they
    >>>have a ban on 'Sunday noise' somewhere? Germany?
    >>>

    >>Yup - disturb the peace on a Sunday in Krautland and you get a knock on
    >>the door from the boys in green

    >
    >
    >"And where would we be if there were too many rules ... ?" ;-)
    >
    >I guess there is a lot of NIMBY no matter what it is.
    >
    >
    >Cheers, T i m
    >
    >P.S. Geoff, I used that wheel cleaner chemical again today on a second
    >hand hdd caddy I bought for my laptop. It looked like it had some
    >water damage / corrosion on it and after a quick wash in the sink with
    >some of that gear diluted 50:50 it looks like new again. ;-)
    >

    Good stuff, innit


    --
    geoff
     
    geoff, May 26, 2010
    #12
  13. On Wed, 26 May 2010 21:03:42 +0100, T i m wrote:

    > Like the other day, I know when we are having a flash of summer out
    > there as my eyes start stinging (indoors) from BBQ fumes blowing in
    > from all around.


    That's one thing I hated about the suburbia of St Albans. The stench
    and smoke haze of burning meat when ever the sun came out. Last time
    we suffered that here was in 2001 from the F&M pyres 20 miles down
    wind...

    --
    Cheers
    Dave.
     
    Dave Liquorice, May 28, 2010
    #13
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