Grout Vs Caulk at corner of shower floor/wall

Discussion in 'Home Repair' started by HelpMe, Nov 4, 2011.

  1. HelpMe

    HelpMe Guest

    I have a 2 year old shower that is ceramic tile on the floors & on
    the walls. It is grouted where the wall tiles meet the floor tiles. The
    grout on two of these wall/floor areas is cracking where the grout meets
    the tile (both the wall tile & the floor tile). How to I repair this.
    Remove old grout & then caulk? Can I just caulk over the grout that is
    pulling from the tile? Put clear silicone caulk over the cracking areas?
    Regrout this area?
    Please HELP !!!



    -------------------------------------
     
    HelpMe, Nov 4, 2011
    #1
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  2. HelpMe

    chaniarts Guest

    On 11/4/2011 12:31 PM, HelpMe wrote:
    >
    >
    >
    >
    > I have a 2 year old shower that is ceramic tile on the floors& on
    > the walls. It is grouted where the wall tiles meet the floor tiles. The
    > grout on two of these wall/floor areas is cracking where the grout meets
    > the tile (both the wall tile& the floor tile). How to I repair this.
    > Remove old grout& then caulk? Can I just caulk over the grout that is
    > pulling from the tile? Put clear silicone caulk over the cracking areas?
    > Regrout this area?
    > Please HELP !!!


    corners are especially bad for grout cracks. they should have been
    caulked instead. you probably need to remove the grout and caulk to get
    a final solution.
     
    chaniarts, Nov 4, 2011
    #2
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  3. HelpMe

    Bob F Guest

    HelpMe wrote:
    > I have a 2 year old shower that is ceramic tile on the floors & on
    > the walls. It is grouted where the wall tiles meet the floor tiles.
    > The grout on two of these wall/floor areas is cracking where the
    > grout meets the tile (both the wall tile & the floor tile). How to I
    > repair this. Remove old grout & then caulk? Can I just caulk over
    > the grout that is pulling from the tile? Put clear silicone caulk
    > over the cracking areas? Regrout this area?
    > Please HELP !!!
    >


    Since you already know the grout won't last, regrouting doesn't ssem like a good
    option. The best choice would be to remove the corner grout, then caulk with a
    silicone caulk. A good tile shop may be able to help you match the grout you
    have with the proper caulk. They have 100% silicone caulks that match a portion
    of the grout colors they sell.
     
    Bob F, Nov 4, 2011
    #3
  4. HelpMe

    RicodJour Guest

    On Nov 4, 4:50 pm, Norminn <> wrote:
    > On 11/4/2011 3:43 PM, chaniarts wrote:
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    > > On 11/4/2011 12:31 PM, HelpMe wrote:

    >
    > >> I have a 2 year old shower that is ceramic tile on the floors& on
    > >> the walls. It is grouted where the wall tiles meet the floor tiles. The
    > >> grout on two of these wall/floor areas is cracking where the grout meets
    > >> the tile (both the wall tile& the floor tile). How to I repair this.
    > >> Remove old grout& then caulk? Can I just caulk over the grout that is
    > >> pulling from the tile? Put clear silicone caulk over the cracking areas?
    > >> Regrout this area?
    > >> Please HELP !!!

    >
    > > corners are especially bad for grout cracks. they should have been
    > > caulked instead. you probably need to remove the grout and caulk to get
    > > a final solution.

    >
    > No need to go overboard removing the grout...just enough for the caulk
    > to grab into (it sticks to the surface of the tile ennyhoo).


    Gotta call you on that one. The caulk will stick, but it won't be
    long lasting and it won't be gua-ran-teed to be 100% waterproof.
    It's not all that much work to remove the old grout and clean out the
    joint. Do it right, do it once.

    R
     
    RicodJour, Nov 4, 2011
    #4
  5. HelpMe

    Guest

    On Nov 4, 4:40 pm, "Bob F" <> wrote:
    > HelpMe wrote:
    > > I have a 2 year old shower that is ceramic tile on the floors & on
    > > the walls.  It is grouted where the wall tiles meet the floor tiles.
    > > The grout on two of these wall/floor areas is cracking where the
    > > grout meets the tile (both the wall tile & the floor tile).  How to I
    > > repair this. Remove old grout & then caulk?  Can I just caulk over
    > > the grout that is pulling from the tile?  Put clear silicone caulk
    > > over the cracking areas? Regrout this area?
    > > Please HELP !!!

    >
    > Since you already know the grout won't last, regrouting doesn't ssem likea good
    > option. The best choice would be to remove the corner grout, then caulk with a
    > silicone caulk. A good tile shop may be able to help you match the grout you
    > have with the proper caulk. They have 100% silicone caulks that match a portion
    > of the grout colors they sell.


    The essential difference is that caulk remains flexible.
    The floor and walls will always have some slight movement
    from either standing on the floor or heating/cooling cycles,
    etc..
     
    , Nov 5, 2011
    #5
  6. HelpMe

    RicodJour Guest

    On Nov 4, 8:34 pm, Norminn <> wrote:
    > On 11/4/2011 6:13 PM, RicodJour wrote:
    > > On Nov 4, 4:50 pm, Norminn<> wrote:
    > >> On 11/4/2011 3:43 PM, chaniarts wrote:

    >
    > >>> corners are especially bad for grout cracks. they should have been
    > >>> caulked instead. you probably need to remove the grout and caulk to get
    > >>> a final solution.

    >
    > >> No need to go overboard removing the grout...just enough for the caulk
    > >> to grab into (it sticks to the surface of the tile ennyhoo).

    >
    > > Gotta call you on that one. The caulk will stick, but it won't be
    > > long lasting and it won't be gua-ran-teed to be 100% waterproof.
    > > It's not all that much work to remove the old grout and clean out the
    > > joint. Do it right, do it once.

    >
    >
    > Gotta call you on that one. My caulk will stick for a long time...clean
    > the meeting surfaces obsessively, wipe with full strength bleach, let
    > dry, caulk. Done (unless I smudge it and have to do it over) :eek:)


    You're not arguing with me, you're arguing with the physical
    properties of caulk. Caulk won't stretch in every direction equally
    regardless of area of adhesion and thickness. Unless you control the
    joint width and depth, and insure that the narrow dimension is normal
    to the direction that the joint will move, the caulk will fail.
    Murphy's Law requires it to fail in a way that is most unfavorable to
    your desired outcome - waterproofing.

    Some people just goober on the caulk right over the grout and bridge
    the joint. That may work for a while, but it's a non-starter if you
    want the job to last and don't want the caulk job to yell out,
    "Amateur!" Caulked joints should be almost indistinguishable from a
    grout line - uniform along it's length, color matched, and as close to
    the standard grout line width as possible.

    R
     
    RicodJour, Nov 5, 2011
    #6
  7. HelpMe

    RicodJour Guest

    On Nov 5, 4:59 pm, Norminn <> wrote:
    > On 11/5/2011 9:44 AM, RicodJour wrote:
    > > On Nov 4, 8:34 pm, Norminn<> wrote:
    > >> On 11/4/2011 6:13 PM, RicodJour wrote:
    > >>> On Nov 4, 4:50 pm, Norminn<> wrote:
    > >>>> On 11/4/2011 3:43 PM, chaniarts wrote:

    >
    > >>>>> corners are especially bad for grout cracks. they should have been
    > >>>>> caulked instead. you probably need to remove the grout and caulk to get
    > >>>>> a final solution.

    >
    > >>>> No need to go overboard removing the grout...just enough for the caulk
    > >>>> to grab into (it sticks to the surface of the tile ennyhoo).

    >
    > >>> Gotta call you on that one. The caulk will stick, but it won't be
    > >>> long lasting and it won't be gua-ran-teed to be 100% waterproof.
    > >>> It's not all that much work to remove the old grout and clean out the
    > >>> joint. Do it right, do it once.

    >
    > >> Gotta call you on that one. My caulk will stick for a long time...clean
    > >> the meeting surfaces obsessively, wipe with full strength bleach, let
    > >> dry, caulk. Done (unless I smudge it and have to do it over) :eek:)

    >
    > > You're not arguing with me, you're arguing with the physical
    > > properties of caulk. Caulk won't stretch in every direction equally
    > > regardless of area of adhesion and thickness. Unless you control the
    > > joint width and depth, and insure that the narrow dimension is normal
    > > to the direction that the joint will move, the caulk will fail.
    > > Murphy's Law requires it to fail in a way that is most unfavorable to
    > > your desired outcome - waterproofing.

    >
    > > Some people just goober on the caulk right over the grout and bridge
    > > the joint. That may work for a while, but it's a non-starter if you
    > > want the job to last and don't want the caulk job to yell out,
    > > "Amateur!" Caulked joints should be almost indistinguishable from a
    > > grout line - uniform along it's length, color matched, and as close to
    > > the standard grout line width as possible.

    >
    >
    > It's pretty unlikely to find a corner joint with tile where the gap is
    > as fine and even as a grout joint


    Look at any of my tile jobs and you'll see they're all like that. It
    takes longer, but I'm only doing it once. But it doesn't matter how
    big the gap is, within reason, it matters how you approach caulking
    the joint. Filling the joint, or attempting to bridge it, without
    taking into account the caulk bead depth and dimensions is a surefire
    recipe for failure.

    >...and stretching is only minimal;
    > consider how wide the fine crack is if the joint is grouted. We're not
    > talking about trampolines.


    The water we have around here does not discriminate based on the size
    of the gap. If there's a gap, the water will enter it. It's a
    shower, eh?

    As far as the amount of stretch - that's exactly the point. You don't
    fight the material, you work with it. The caulk should be adhered at
    both sides and the caulk thinner in the middle so it'll stretch the
    way it is supposed to and not pull the caulk away from the tile on one
    side.

    Different ways to caulk correctly:
    http://www.inspectapedia.com/BestPractices/Figure1-38.jpg
    http://www.inspectapedia.com/BestPractices/Figure6-37.jpg

    Carpentry, but it applies to tile as well:
    http://www.thisiscarpentry.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/08/BackerRod-1_1.jpg

    Shows preferred caulk bead dimensions:
    http://www.jlconline.com/isroot/jlc.../htmlarticles/html/2001/0102/0201Mc51.eps.gif

    This is all well established caulking practice. You appear to be
    saying "it doesn't matter", but it does. A slow leak is not better
    than a fast one. A big gap/leak will show up more quickly and is less
    likely to do extensive damage. A small gap/leak can go undetected for
    years, and then when it is finally discovered it is never good.
    Reframing and mold remediation are the usual outcomes.

    R
     
    RicodJour, Nov 6, 2011
    #7
  8. HelpMe

    Bob F Guest

    RicodJour wrote:
    > Look at any of my tile jobs and you'll see they're all like that. It
    > takes longer, but I'm only doing it once. But it doesn't matter how
    > big the gap is, within reason, it matters how you approach caulking
    > the joint. Filling the joint, or attempting to bridge it, without
    > taking into account the caulk bead depth and dimensions is a surefire
    > recipe for failure.
    >
    >> ...and stretching is only minimal;
    >> consider how wide the fine crack is if the joint is grouted. We're
    >> not talking about trampolines.

    >
    > The water we have around here does not discriminate based on the size
    > of the gap. If there's a gap, the water will enter it. It's a
    > shower, eh?
    >
    > As far as the amount of stretch - that's exactly the point. You don't
    > fight the material, you work with it. The caulk should be adhered at
    > both sides and the caulk thinner in the middle so it'll stretch the
    > way it is supposed to and not pull the caulk away from the tile on one
    > side.
    >
    > Different ways to caulk correctly:
    > http://www.inspectapedia.com/BestPractices/Figure1-38.jpg
    > http://www.inspectapedia.com/BestPractices/Figure6-37.jpg
    >
    > Carpentry, but it applies to tile as well:
    > http://www.thisiscarpentry.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/08/BackerRod-1_1.jpg
    >
    > Shows preferred caulk bead dimensions:
    > http://www.jlconline.com/isroot/jlc.../htmlarticles/html/2001/0102/0201Mc51.eps.gif
    >
    > This is all well established caulking practice. You appear to be
    > saying "it doesn't matter", but it does. A slow leak is not better
    > than a fast one. A big gap/leak will show up more quickly and is less
    > likely to do extensive damage. A small gap/leak can go undetected for
    > years, and then when it is finally discovered it is never good.
    > Reframing and mold remediation are the usual outcomes.
    >


    Excellent post! Very useful info.
     
    Bob F, Nov 6, 2011
    #8
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