Grohe dual flush -- which button to push?

Discussion in 'UK DIY' started by Brian L Johnson, Feb 12, 2007.

  1. Hi,

    I've just fitted a Grohe (38 690) WC which has a dual flush. The button
    bezel contains 2 buttons formed into a circle: a small elliptical button
    and a larger button in which the smaller sits.

    See <URL= http://www.thejohnsons.co.uk/GroheButtons.jpg > for a 17KB
    picture.

    The mechanism was pre-assembled by the company which supplied bathroom
    furniture, but I have checked that the air hoses are connected correctly
    (it doesn't work at all when switched) and the assembly looks pretty
    much the same as the enclosed 'instructions'.

    Now, on this Grohe mechanism, if I press the large button, it depresses
    on its own and gives a large flush. If I press the small button, it
    carries with it the larger button and then gives me a small flush.

    This concept just seems wrong to me: press 1 button for a large flush;
    press 2 together for a small one. Surely it's the other way around: 1
    for a small flush; 2 for a big?

    Anyone else got a Grohe flush -- or similar -- with whom I can compare
    notes?

    --
    -blj-
    Brian L Johnson, Feb 12, 2007
    #1
  2. Brian L Johnson

    sm_jamieson Guest

    On 12 Feb, 16:28, Brian L Johnson <> wrote:
    > Hi,
    >
    > I've just fitted a Grohe (38 690) WC which has a dual flush. The button
    > bezel contains 2 buttons formed into a circle: a small elliptical button
    > and a larger button in which the smaller sits.
    >
    > See <URL=http://www.thejohnsons.co.uk/GroheButtons.jpg> for a 17KB
    > picture.
    >
    > The mechanism was pre-assembled by the company which supplied bathroom
    > furniture, but I have checked that the air hoses are connected correctly
    > (it doesn't work at all when switched) and the assembly looks pretty
    > much the same as the enclosed 'instructions'.
    >
    > Now, on this Grohe mechanism, if I press the large button, it depresses
    > on its own and gives a large flush. If I press the small button, it
    > carries with it the larger button and then gives me a small flush.
    >
    > This concept just seems wrong to me: press 1 button for a large flush;
    > press 2 together for a small one. Surely it's the other way around: 1
    > for a small flush; 2 for a big?
    >
    > Anyone else got a Grohe flush -- or similar -- with whom I can compare
    > notes?
    >
    > --
    > -blj-


    Surely "Press large button for large flush, press small button for
    small flush" is just as intuitive ?
    My loo have a larger cresent shaped "half" for a large flush and a
    smaller segment for small flush, and you can hold down the small
    button for a long flush. The small segment is raised, the large one
    dished - that kind of seemed strange to me. I had to rotate the button
    unit so the short flush was at the back, else guests would have
    another look, it you know what I mean.
    The short flush really is pathetic, even after adjusting the float to
    give max water usage from the cistern.
    Simon.
    sm_jamieson, Feb 12, 2007
    #2
  3. sm_jamieson wrote

    > On 12 Feb, 16:28, Brian L Johnson <> wrote:

    <snippage>
    > > See <URL=http://www.thejohnsons.co.uk/GroheButtons.jpg> for a 17KB
    > > picture.

    <snip>
    > > This concept just seems wrong to me: press 1 button for a large flush;
    > > press 2 together for a small one. Surely it's the other way around: 1
    > > for a small flush; 2 for a big?
    > >
    > > Anyone else got a Grohe flush -- or similar -- with whom I can compare
    > > notes?
    > >

    >
    > Surely "Press large button for large flush, press small button for
    > small flush" is just as intuitive ?


    Prior to plumbing it in, that's exactly what I thought it was. It was
    only when I was testing it did I realise that the small button's too
    small to just press by itself. (The bezel's only about 7 cm across.)

    That's when I thought, "Ah. The big button is actually a 'main' button.
    It's the one you're supposed to use all the time. When you want a bigger
    flush, you obviously press them both and the small button adds in the
    extra litres."

    How wrong I was. <g>

    > My loo have a larger cresent shaped "half" for a large flush and a
    > smaller segment for small flush, and you can hold down the small
    > button for a long flush. The small segment is raised, the large one
    > dished - that kind of seemed strange to me. I had to rotate the button
    > unit so the short flush was at the back, else guests would have
    > another look, it you know what I mean.


    Yes, I tried to turn the fitting upside down but, sadly, that means that
    the asymmetrical fitting on the other side of the panel will no longer
    fit into the cut-out in the cistern. <sigh>

    > The short flush really is pathetic, even after adjusting the float to
    > give max water usage from the cistern.


    Again, yes. There's not really enough water to take away a single sheet
    of toilet tissue. In fact, rather than a 'flush', it seems to be more of
    a 'dilute'. Eeeyuw!

    --
    -blj-
    Brian L Johnson, Feb 12, 2007
    #3
  4. Tony Bryer wrote

    > On 12 Feb 2007 07:38:11 -0800 Sm_jamieson wrote :
    > > The short flush really is pathetic, even after adjusting the float to
    > > give max water usage from the cistern.

    >
    > On mine the short flush lasts just as long as you hold the button down.
    > The longer flush keeps going until the cistern is almost empty.
    >

    <F/X: sound of footsteps going and coming>

    Yep, same as mine. Hmmm...

    Which makes me wonder about the need to have 2 different flushes.

    --
    -blj-
    Brian L Johnson, Feb 12, 2007
    #4
  5. Brian Sharrock wrote

    > > Again, yes. There's not really enough water to take away a single sheet
    > > of toilet tissue. In fact, rather than a 'flush', it seems to be more of
    > > a 'dilute'. Eeeyuw!
    > >

    <snip>
    > I was told by the merchant who described the new-fangled double flush
    > system; that the little flush for urinination only while the bigger flush
    > was for .... erm ... solids.


    Oh, I understand the reasoning behind the dual flush system. In fact,
    having to push one button for a Number One and two buttons for a Number
    Two would make even more sense. If only that were the case...

    But with this Grohe, it's the other way around: I have to push one
    button for a Number Two and two buttons for a Number One. Duh.

    > Before it's designed not to deliver "enough water to take away a single
    > sheet of toilet tissue".


    AIUI, ladies often use a single sheet of tissue after a Number One, so
    it's a pity they can't use the lower level flush.

    Of course, the strength of flush will probably depend also on the
    pattern of flush generated by the design of the toilet pan, so it may
    well just be a function of my particular toilet that it seems so feeble.

    --
    -blj-
    Brian L Johnson, Feb 12, 2007
    #5
  6. Brian L Johnson

    Guest

    On 12 Feb, 15:28, Brian L Johnson <> wrote:
    > Hi,
    >
    > I've just fitted a Grohe (38 690) WC which has a dual flush. The button
    > bezel contains 2 buttons formed into a circle: a small elliptical button
    > and a larger button in which the smaller sits.
    >
    > See <URL=http://www.thejohnsons.co.uk/GroheButtons.jpg> for a 17KB
    > picture.
    >
    > The mechanism was pre-assembled by the company which supplied bathroom
    > furniture, but I have checked that the air hoses are connected correctly
    > (it doesn't work at all when switched) and the assembly looks pretty
    > much the same as the enclosed 'instructions'.
    >
    > Now, on this Grohe mechanism, if I press the large button, it depresses
    > on its own and gives a large flush. If I press the small button, it
    > carries with it the larger button and then gives me a small flush.
    >
    > This concept just seems wrong to me: press 1 button for a large flush;
    > press 2 together for a small one. Surely it's the other way around: 1
    > for a small flush; 2 for a big?
    >
    > Anyone else got a Grohe flush -- or similar -- with whom I can compare
    > notes?
    >
    > --
    > -blj-



    Yes. I have a Grohe system in a wall mount frame.

    Apart from the hose arrangement, you may also have to make two
    further adjustments to the flush mechanism and perhaps one to the
    float.

    - There is a lever (typically red) on the valve mechanism near the
    bottom. It may need to be moved

    - Above there is a styrofoam float which controls when the short flush
    mechanism drops out snd stops

    - There is a level adjustment to the supply float.


    I found it was easiest to adjust for the long flush first by
    maximising the amount of water in the cistern
    and adjusting the red lever. This will ensure a thorough flush if
    going for the full version. The default
    amounts of water are not really enough. Cistern sizes have been made
    too small in general in current versions

    After this, you can adjust the float to affect the amount for a short
    flush.
    , Feb 13, 2007
    #6
  7. Brian L Johnson

    djc Guest

    Brian L Johnson wrote:

    >
    > This concept just seems wrong to me: press 1 button for a large flush;
    > press 2 together for a small one. Surely it's the other way around: 1
    > for a small flush; 2 for a big?
    >
    > Anyone else got a Grohe flush -- or similar -- with whom I can compare
    > notes?

    Yes, it's correct. The big button for the big flush, the little button
    (which carries the big one with it) for the little flush. It seems that
    the little button and associated airline act to inhibit the big flush
    action.


    --
    djc
    djc, Feb 13, 2007
    #7
  8. Brian L Johnson

    Guest

    On 12 Feb, 22:02, "Dev" <> wrote:
    >
    > OMFG - I give up! Go and THINK about what a dual flush is for. Does
    > someone really have to spell it out to you? While we're on the subject,
    > ever heard of a water meter or water conservation?- Hide quoted text -


    I like the line they used in "meet the fokkers"

    If its yellow let it mellow, if its brown flush it down.
    , Feb 13, 2007
    #8
  9. djc wrote

    > Brian L Johnson wrote:
    >
    > >
    > > This concept just seems wrong to me: press 1 button for a large flush;
    > > press 2 together for a small one. Surely it's the other way around: 1
    > > for a small flush; 2 for a big?
    > >
    > > Anyone else got a Grohe flush -- or similar -- with whom I can compare
    > > notes?

    > Yes, it's correct. The big button for the big flush, the little button
    > (which carries the big one with it) for the little flush.


    Nice phrasing. Yes, I'll have to say "Big button, big flush. Little
    button, little flush." to my guests. :)

    > It seems that the little button and associated airline act to inhibit
    > the big flush action.
    >

    Yes, that's probably right.

    However, I'm going to stop thinking about it now and just remember the:
    "Big button, big flush. Little button, little flush." phrase. <g>

    --
    -blj-
    Brian L Johnson, Feb 13, 2007
    #9
  10. am wrote

    > Yes. I have a Grohe system in a wall mount frame.
    >
    > Apart from the hose arrangement, you may also have to make two
    > further adjustments to the flush mechanism and perhaps one to the
    > float.
    >
    > - There is a lever (typically red) on the valve mechanism near the
    > bottom. It may need to be moved
    >
    > - Above there is a styrofoam float which controls when the short flush
    > mechanism drops out snd stops
    >
    > - There is a level adjustment to the supply float.


    I've had a quick look at the user manual/instructions and put it to one
    side for further examination once I've finished the rest of the jobs in
    the bathroom.

    > I found it was easiest to adjust for the long flush first by
    > maximising the amount of water in the cistern
    > and adjusting the red lever. This will ensure a thorough flush if
    > going for the full version. The default
    > amounts of water are not really enough. Cistern sizes have been made
    > too small in general in current versions
    >
    > After this, you can adjust the float to affect the amount for a short
    > flush.


    Useful information, thanks. I've made a note on my instruction sheet. :)

    --
    -blj-
    Brian L Johnson, Feb 13, 2007
    #10
  11. Brian L Johnson

    Guest

    On Feb 13, 9:25 am, wrote:
    > On 12 Feb, 22:02, "Dev" <> wrote:
    >
    >
    >
    > > OMFG - I give up! Go and THINK about what a dual flush is for. Does
    > > someone really have to spell it out to you? While we're on the subject,
    > > ever heard of a water meter or water conservation?- Hide quoted text -

    >
    > I like the line they used in "meet the fokkers"
    >
    > If its yellow let it mellow, if its brown flush it down.


    It's certainly not original to the film.

    MBQ
    , Feb 13, 2007
    #11
  12. Brian L Johnson

    Guest

    On Feb 12, 10:27 pm, Brian L Johnson <> wrote:
    > Brian Sharrock wrote
    >
    >
    >
    > > > Again, yes. There's not really enough water to take away a single sheet
    > > > of toilet tissue. In fact, rather than a 'flush', it seems to be more of
    > > > a 'dilute'. Eeeyuw!

    >
    > <snip>
    > > I was told by the merchant who described the new-fangled double flush
    > > system; that the little flush for urinination only while the bigger flush
    > > was for .... erm ... solids.

    >
    > Oh, I understand the reasoning behind the dual flush system. In fact,
    > having to push one button for a Number One and two buttons for a Number
    > Two would make even more sense. If only that were the case...
    >
    > But with this Grohe, it's the other way around: I have to push one
    > button for a Number Two and two buttons for a Number One. Duh.
    >
    > > Before it's designed not to deliver "enough water to take away a single
    > > sheet of toilet tissue".

    >
    > AIUI, ladies often use a single sheet of tissue after a Number One, so


    So do some men. I do at home where the toilet tissue is readily to
    hand. In some places (not seen it in the UK) you get tissue dispensers
    next to the urinals for this very purpose.

    MBQ
    , Feb 13, 2007
    #12
  13. Brian L Johnson

    sm_jamieson Guest

    On 13 Feb, 12:15, "" <>
    wrote:
    > On Feb 12, 10:27 pm, Brian L Johnson <> wrote:
    >
    >
    >
    > > Brian Sharrock wrote

    >
    > > > > Again, yes. There's not really enough water to take away a single sheet
    > > > > of toilet tissue. In fact, rather than a 'flush', it seems to be more of
    > > > > a 'dilute'. Eeeyuw!

    >
    > > <snip>
    > > > I was told by the merchant who described the new-fangled double flush
    > > > system; that the little flush for urinination only while the bigger flush
    > > > was for .... erm ... solids.

    >
    > > Oh, I understand the reasoning behind the dual flush system. In fact,
    > > having to push one button for a Number One and two buttons for a Number
    > > Two would make even more sense. If only that were the case...

    >
    > > But with this Grohe, it's the other way around: I have to push one
    > > button for a Number Two and two buttons for a Number One. Duh.

    >
    > > > Before it's designed not to deliver "enough water to take away a single
    > > > sheet of toilet tissue".

    >
    > > AIUI, ladies often use a single sheet of tissue after a Number One, so

    >
    > So do some men. I do at home where the toilet tissue is readily to
    > hand. In some places (not seen it in the UK) you get tissue dispensers
    > next to the urinals for this very purpose.
    >
    > MBQ


    Where do you then put the tissues ?
    Stick them in your pocket ?
    Simon.
    sm_jamieson, Feb 13, 2007
    #13
  14. Brian L Johnson

    John Laird Guest

    On Feb 12, 10:27 pm, Brian L Johnson <> wrote:
    > Brian Sharrock wrote
    > >
    > > Before it's designed not to deliver "enough water to take away a single
    > > sheet of toilet tissue".

    >
    > AIUI, ladies often use a single sheet of tissue after a Number One, so
    > it's a pity they can't use the lower level flush.


    Especially as they use the loo 23 times a day, on average. (I
    couldn't find a half-smiley, so you'll have to take it on trust I am
    semi-serious.)

    I *think* my no-name model can manage a sheet of loo paper. It
    certainly works fairly well, except the full flush doesn't always
    "release" and can flow water forever if you don't happen to notice.
    Someone also fitted the push mechanism the wrong way round so you have
    to reach past the big flush button to the small one (it's on the side
    of the cistern).

    --
    "Lead me not into temptation, I can find it myself."
    John Laird, Feb 13, 2007
    #14
  15. Brian L Johnson

    Guest

    On 13 Feb, 10:23, Brian L Johnson <> wrote:
    > wrote
    >
    > > Yes. I have a Grohe system in a wall mount frame.

    >
    > > Apart from the hose arrangement, you may also have to make two
    > > further adjustments to the flush mechanism and perhaps one to the
    > > float.

    >
    > > - There is a lever (typically red) on the valve mechanism near the
    > > bottom. It may need to be moved

    >
    > > - Above there is a styrofoam float which controls when the short flush
    > > mechanism drops out snd stops

    >
    > > - There is a level adjustment to the supply float.

    >
    > I've had a quick look at the user manual/instructions and put it to one
    > side for further examination once I've finished the rest of the jobs in
    > the bathroom.
    >
    > > I found it was easiest to adjust for the long flush first by
    > > maximising the amount of water in the cistern
    > > and adjusting the red lever. This will ensure a thorough flush if
    > > going for the full version. The default
    > > amounts of water are not really enough. Cistern sizes have been made
    > > too small in general in current versions

    >
    > > After this, you can adjust the float to affect the amount for a short
    > > flush.

    >
    > Useful information, thanks. I've made a note on my instruction sheet. :)
    >
    > --
    > -blj-


    If you look through the pictures a few times it does become clearer.
    , Feb 13, 2007
    #15
  16. wrote

    > > AIUI, ladies often use a single sheet of tissue after a Number One, so

    >
    > So do some men. I do at home where the toilet tissue is readily to
    > hand. In some places (not seen it in the UK) you get tissue dispensers
    > next to the urinals for this very purpose.


    It's certainly more hygienic than... other methods. <g>

    --
    -blj-
    Brian L Johnson, Feb 13, 2007
    #16
  17. John Laird wrote

    > On Feb 12, 10:27 pm, Brian L Johnson <> wrote:
    > > Brian Sharrock wrote
    > > >
    > > > Before it's designed not to deliver "enough water to take away a single
    > > > sheet of toilet tissue".

    > >
    > > AIUI, ladies often use a single sheet of tissue after a Number One, so
    > > it's a pity they can't use the lower level flush.

    >
    > Especially as they use the loo 23 times a day, on average. (I
    > couldn't find a half-smiley, so you'll have to take it on trust I am
    > semi-serious.)


    :)

    > I *think* my no-name model can manage a sheet of loo paper. It
    > certainly works fairly well, except the full flush doesn't always
    > "release" and can flow water forever if you don't happen to notice.


    Oops! Are you on a water meter?

    > Someone also fitted the push mechanism the wrong way round so you have
    > to reach past the big flush button to the small one (it's on the side
    > of the cistern).


    In a way, that sort of thing was what led me to ask this question in the
    first place. I was concerned that my controls had possibly been
    connected the wrong way round.

    --
    -blj-
    Brian L Johnson, Feb 13, 2007
    #17
  18. am wrote

    > If you look through the pictures a few times it does become clearer.
    >

    Yes, hanks. :)

    One thing I couldn't work out though was the diagram/instruction
    embossed upon the rectangular pop-out panels. I even went so far as to
    do a tracing of one of them but it still made no sense at all. Arrows
    going this way and that, fold here, don't bend there...

    I'd not a clue. <g>

    Still, that's one of the disadvantages of buying something which is sold
    in multiple countries, I suppose. Far better if it said, in plain
    English, "Don't remove the side tabs." or whatever.

    --
    -blj-
    Brian L Johnson, Feb 13, 2007
    #18
  19. Brian L Johnson

    Guest

    On 13 Feb, 14:44, Brian L Johnson <> wrote:
    > wrote
    >
    > > If you look through the pictures a few times it does become clearer.

    >
    > Yes, hanks. :)
    >
    > One thing I couldn't work out though was the diagram/instruction
    > embossed upon the rectangular pop-out panels. I even went so far as to
    > do a tracing of one of them but it still made no sense at all. Arrows
    > going this way and that, fold here, don't bend there...
    >
    > I'd not a clue. <g>
    >
    > Still, that's one of the disadvantages of buying something which is sold
    > in multiple countries, I suppose. Far better if it said, in plain
    > English, "Don't remove the side tabs." or whatever.
    >
    > --
    > -blj-



    Hint. Download instructions for several of their products. Some
    have better
    illustrations than others.
    , Feb 14, 2007
    #19
  20. Brian L Johnson

    John Laird Guest

    On Feb 13, 2:36 pm, Brian L Johnson <> wrote:
    > John Laird wrote
    >
    > > I *think* my no-name model can manage a sheet of loo paper. It
    > > certainly works fairly well, except the full flush doesn't always
    > > "release" and can flow water forever if you don't happen to notice.

    >
    > Oops! Are you on a water meter?


    Not yet. My stopcock is in a damn stupid place (under the floor,
    would you believe) and I've a small issue with standing water under
    there at the moment, so I'm waiting til that's resolved before I
    invited UU round to survey for a meter, which I would like them to
    install in the pavement if at all possible. Still organising my plan
    of attack on that one...

    > > Someone also fitted the push mechanism the wrong way round so you have
    > > to reach past the big flush button to the small one (it's on the side
    > > of the cistern).

    >
    > In a way, that sort of thing was what led me to ask this question in the
    > first place. I was concerned that my controls had possibly been
    > connected the wrong way round.


    I don't have a Grohe cistern (sorry for the diversion), so can't
    advise. The mechanism on mine seems to be a single air-tube, and
    presumably there's some clever trickery to make that do two
    functions. (I'd guess it pushes air from both buttons, but one holds
    the pipe closed and the other opens it to the atmosphere, maybe).

    --
    "There will be no last bus tonight."
    John Laird, Feb 14, 2007
    #20

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