Generator power to gas furnace???

Discussion in 'HVAC' started by mike, Nov 5, 2010.

  1. mike

    mike Guest

    I'd like to be able to have temporary power hooked into my
    gas furnace in case of a prolonged power outage.
    Been digging through the electrical code. Not at all
    clear what's likely to pass muster. Don't want to talk
    to local inspectors until I have something likely to work.

    Power outages are rare. I just don't want the plumbing to freeze
    in the unlikely event of a prolonged winter storm.

    I can run a few lights off an extension cord.
    But the furnace is permanently connected.
    What are the ramifications of that?
    I have a mostly empty box on the wall. Wire comes in the bottom
    and goes out the front through conduit to the furnace.
    Wire nuts inside the furnace box connect it up.

    It's interesting that the box is insulating with a metal
    cover plate and no ground connection except from the furnace
    ground back thru the
    conduit. Sounds like it's already in violation of code???
    House was built in 1972.

    Is there any code passing way to get a connector
    in that wire? Either inside the wall box or inside
    the furnace box? A connector would let me get it
    completely disconnected from the main power
    and wired up to the temporary generator.
    What UL markings would I need on the connector assembly?
    I'm in Oregon, USA.

    I'd like to avoid having to pull the wire nuts out of the
    metal cage inside the furnace to disconnect it.
    Connector would remove the error terms.
     
    mike, Nov 5, 2010
    #1
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  2. mike

    Grumpy Guest

    Mike I can understand what you trying to do, but my friend
    you are playing with your self, if you want emergency switch over to
    Generator
    hire you self license Electrician and install switchover on main line
    coming into your house and then use your circuit breakers to put on
    what you want and off what you don't want to go on,
    wouldn't that be simpler.


    "mike" <> wrote in message
    news:ib0tkj$sij$-september.org...
    > I'd like to be able to have temporary power hooked into my
    > gas furnace in case of a prolonged power outage.
    > Been digging through the electrical code. Not at all
    > clear what's likely to pass muster. Don't want to talk
    > to local inspectors until I have something likely to work.
    >
    > Power outages are rare. I just don't want the plumbing to freeze
    > in the unlikely event of a prolonged winter storm.
    >
    > I can run a few lights off an extension cord.
    > But the furnace is permanently connected.
    > What are the ramifications of that?
    > I have a mostly empty box on the wall. Wire comes in the bottom
    > and goes out the front through conduit to the furnace.
    > Wire nuts inside the furnace box connect it up.
    >
    > It's interesting that the box is insulating with a metal
    > cover plate and no ground connection except from the furnace
    > ground back thru the
    > conduit. Sounds like it's already in violation of code???
    > House was built in 1972.
    >
    > Is there any code passing way to get a connector
    > in that wire? Either inside the wall box or inside
    > the furnace box? A connector would let me get it
    > completely disconnected from the main power
    > and wired up to the temporary generator.
    > What UL markings would I need on the connector assembly?
    > I'm in Oregon, USA.
    >
    > I'd like to avoid having to pull the wire nuts out of the
    > metal cage inside the furnace to disconnect it.
    > Connector would remove the error terms.
     
    Grumpy, Nov 5, 2010
    #2
    1. Advertising

  3. mike

    Steve Guest

    "mike" <> wrote in message
    news:ib0tkj$sij$-september.org...
    > I'd like to be able to have temporary power hooked into my
    > gas furnace in case of a prolonged power outage.
    > Been digging through the electrical code. Not at all
    > clear what's likely to pass muster. Don't want to talk
    > to local inspectors until I have something likely to work.


    Call your local electrician

    > Power outages are rare. I just don't want the plumbing to freeze
    > in the unlikely event of a prolonged winter storm.
    >
    > I can run a few lights off an extension cord.
    > But the furnace is permanently connected.
    > What are the ramifications of that?
    > I have a mostly empty box on the wall. Wire comes in the bottom
    > and goes out the front through conduit to the furnace.
    > Wire nuts inside the furnace box connect it up.


    Call your local electrician

    > It's interesting that the box is insulating with a metal
    > cover plate and no ground connection except from the furnace
    > ground back thru the
    > conduit. Sounds like it's already in violation of code???
    > House was built in 1972.


    Call your local electrician

    > Is there any code passing way to get a connector
    > in that wire? Either inside the wall box or inside
    > the furnace box? A connector would let me get it
    > completely disconnected from the main power
    > and wired up to the temporary generator.
    > What UL markings would I need on the connector assembly?
    > I'm in Oregon, USA.


    Connectors will not pass muster, call your local electrician

    > I'd like to avoid having to pull the wire nuts out of the
    > metal cage inside the furnace to disconnect it.
    > Connector would remove the error terms.


    Call your local electrician.
    He will be familier with all of your local code requirements and can make
    sure its done correctly and to code.

    One foot of good wire beats a mile of firehose every time.
     
    Steve, Nov 5, 2010
    #3
  4. mike

    Steve Guest

    <.p.jm.@see_my_sig_for_address.com> wrote in message
    news:...
    > Who you gonna call ?


    I called my electrician to double check my work and sign off on it before I
    called the inspector.
     
    Steve, Nov 5, 2010
    #4
  5. mike

    mike Guest

    Steve wrote:
    > <.p.jm.@see_my_sig_for_address.com> wrote in message
    > news:...
    >> Who you gonna call ?

    >
    > I called my electrician to double check my work and sign off on it before I
    > called the inspector.
    >
    >

    AS will I.
    But I want to learn my options before I start spending money.
     
    mike, Nov 5, 2010
    #5
  6. mike

    Steve Guest

    "mike" <> wrote in message
    news:ib1qt4$p2$-september.org...
    > Steve wrote:
    >> <.p.jm.@see_my_sig_for_address.com> wrote in message
    >> news:...
    >>> Who you gonna call ?

    >>
    >> I called my electrician to double check my work and sign off on it before
    >> I called the inspector.

    > AS will I.
    > But I want to learn my options before I start spending money.


    *YOU* need to call an electrician *FIRST* to see what you need to do, and
    how to do it.

    This tells me that you don't have a clue.....

     
    Steve, Nov 5, 2010
    #6
  7. mike

    mike Guest

    Grumpy wrote:
    > Mike I can understand what you trying to do, but my friend
    > you are playing with your self, if you want emergency switch over to
    > Generator
    > hire you self license Electrician and install switchover on main line
    > coming into your house and then use your circuit breakers to put on
    > what you want and off what you don't want to go on,
    > wouldn't that be simpler.

    You betcha. Would also be simpler to get rid of the wife...
    oh wait...already did that.

    With all the "advice" given here, I'd expect that at least one of you
    guys IS a licensed electrician. So, I AM, in effect, asking a licensed
    electrician or three right here and now.

    I've been in this house almost 40 years. I can count significant power
    outages on two fingers. I don't need a permanent generator installation.
    I have the generator. Be a shame to forgo the means to use it if the need
    ever arises.

    I asked a simple question:
    How do I put a connector in a line to a permanently attached appliance,
    a furnace, that meets the national electrical code when the connector
    is hooked up normally to utility power. I'll deal with local
    issues after I get some ideas.
    >
    >
    > "mike" <> wrote in message
    > news:ib0tkj$sij$-september.org...
    >> I'd like to be able to have temporary power hooked into my
    >> gas furnace in case of a prolonged power outage.
    >> Been digging through the electrical code. Not at all
    >> clear what's likely to pass muster. Don't want to talk
    >> to local inspectors until I have something likely to work.
    >>
    >> Power outages are rare. I just don't want the plumbing to freeze
    >> in the unlikely event of a prolonged winter storm.
    >>
    >> I can run a few lights off an extension cord.
    >> But the furnace is permanently connected.
    >> What are the ramifications of that?
    >> I have a mostly empty box on the wall. Wire comes in the bottom
    >> and goes out the front through conduit to the furnace.
    >> Wire nuts inside the furnace box connect it up.
    >>
    >> It's interesting that the box is insulating with a metal
    >> cover plate and no ground connection except from the furnace
    >> ground back thru the
    >> conduit. Sounds like it's already in violation of code???
    >> House was built in 1972.
    >>
    >> Is there any code passing way to get a connector
    >> in that wire? Either inside the wall box or inside
    >> the furnace box? A connector would let me get it
    >> completely disconnected from the main power
    >> and wired up to the temporary generator.
    >> What UL markings would I need on the connector assembly?
    >> I'm in Oregon, USA.
    >>
    >> I'd like to avoid having to pull the wire nuts out of the
    >> metal cage inside the furnace to disconnect it.
    >> Connector would remove the error terms.

    >
    >
     
    mike, Nov 5, 2010
    #7
  8. I doubt there is any such way that's legal. However, a different
    question might provide more information.

    --
    Christopher A. Young
    Learn more about Jesus
    www.lds.org
    ..


    "mike" <>
    wrote in message news:ib1rj5$48t$-september.org...

    I asked a simple question:
    How do I put a connector in a line to a permanently attached
    appliance,
    a furnace, that meets the national electrical code when the connector
    is hooked up normally to utility power. I'll deal with local
    issues after I get some ideas.
     
    Stormin Mormon, Nov 5, 2010
    #8
  9. I did not write that!
    (However, it can be done safely, and works fine.
    An hour of furnace right before bedtime sure makes
    sleeping more comfortable.)

    --
    Christopher A. Young
    Learn more about Jesus
    www.lds.org
    ..


    "Jon Elson" <> wrote in message
    news:...

    Sure, I did this a couple years ago when we knew
    a major ice storm was coming. When the lights
    went out, I wend down and unwired the furnace
    from the permanent wiring and put a plug on the
    wires. When it got cold enough to need it, I fired
    up the generator and ran extension cords to the
    furnace and refrigerator. 90 minutes on the generator
    every 6 hours or so was all it took to stay reasonably
    comfortable.

    This was all a temporary hack, as this sort of storm
    is quite rare here, too. If you want totally installed
    wiring for emergency loads, an electrician can wire
    up an emergency panel, but it will be somewhat
    expensive to separate those loads from all the rest
    in the house.

    Jon
     
    Stormin Mormon, Nov 5, 2010
    #9
  10. mike

    mike Guest

    Jon Elson wrote:
    > On 11/05/2010 07:34 AM, mike wrote:
    >> I'd like to be able to have temporary power hooked into my
    >> gas furnace in case of a prolonged power outage.
    >> Been digging through the electrical code. Not at all
    >> clear what's likely to pass muster. Don't want to talk
    >> to local inspectors until I have something likely to work.
    >>

    > Sure, I did this a couple years ago when we knew a major ice storm was
    > coming. When the lights went out, I wend down and unwired the furnace
    > from the permanent wiring and put a plug on the wires. When it got cold
    > enough to need it, I fired up the generator and ran extension cords to
    > the furnace and refrigerator. 90 minutes on the generator every 6 hours
    > or so was all it took to stay reasonably comfortable.
    >
    > This was all a temporary hack, as this sort of storm is quite rare here,
    > too. If you want totally installed wiring for emergency loads, an
    > electrician can wire up an emergency panel, but it will be somewhat
    > expensive to separate those loads from all the rest in the house.
    >
    > Jon


    I went down to city hall and talked to the electrical inspector.
    He said,
    "cut the furnace wire, install a plug, plug it into an outlet."
    I quizzed him about the permanent attachment of a furnace.
    He said,
    "I know of no requirement preventing a gas furnace from being plugged in
    to an outlet."
    I tried again:
    "the wire comes out of a box on the wall and goes to the furnace.
    If I cut the wire, install a plug, install a socket in the box
    and plug it in, that will pass your inspection as a permanent installation?"
    He said, "Yes."

    That easily solves my problem.

    I didn't have the citation handy, but rereading sections 400.7-400.8
    suggests that unless the furnace is on wheels ;-), I can't use a flexible
    cord.
    Not clear whether I can put a plug on a non-flexible cord or whether
    that resolves any code issues.

    Am I overthinking this?
    Is the inspector incompetent?
     
    mike, Nov 6, 2010
    #10
  11. mike

    mike Guest

    ..p.jm.@see_my_sig_for_address.com wrote:
    > On Fri, 05 Nov 2010 17:38:24 -0700, mike <> wrote:
    >
    >> Jon Elson wrote:
    >>> On 11/05/2010 07:34 AM, mike wrote:
    >>>> I'd like to be able to have temporary power hooked into my
    >>>> gas furnace in case of a prolonged power outage.
    >>>> Been digging through the electrical code. Not at all
    >>>> clear what's likely to pass muster. Don't want to talk
    >>>> to local inspectors until I have something likely to work.
    >>>>
    >>> Sure, I did this a couple years ago when we knew a major ice storm was
    >>> coming. When the lights went out, I wend down and unwired the furnace
    >>> from the permanent wiring and put a plug on the wires. When it got cold
    >>> enough to need it, I fired up the generator and ran extension cords to
    >>> the furnace and refrigerator. 90 minutes on the generator every 6 hours
    >>> or so was all it took to stay reasonably comfortable.
    >>>
    >>> This was all a temporary hack, as this sort of storm is quite rare here,
    >>> too. If you want totally installed wiring for emergency loads, an
    >>> electrician can wire up an emergency panel, but it will be somewhat
    >>> expensive to separate those loads from all the rest in the house.
    >>>
    >>> Jon

    >> I went down to city hall and talked to the electrical inspector.
    >> He said,
    >> "cut the furnace wire, install a plug, plug it into an outlet."
    >> I quizzed him about the permanent attachment of a furnace.
    >> He said,
    >> "I know of no requirement preventing a gas furnace from being plugged in
    >> to an outlet."
    >> I tried again:
    >> "the wire comes out of a box on the wall and goes to the furnace.
    >> If I cut the wire, install a plug, install a socket in the box
    >> and plug it in, that will pass your inspection as a permanent installation?"
    >> He said, "Yes."
    >>
    >> That easily solves my problem.
    >>
    >> I didn't have the citation handy, but rereading sections 400.7-400.8
    >> suggests that unless the furnace is on wheels ;-), I can't use a flexible
    >> cord.
    >> Not clear whether I can put a plug on a non-flexible cord or whether
    >> that resolves any code issues.

    >
    > WTF is a 'non-flexible cord' ?


    Appears that you're not yet tired of being obnoxious for the sake of being
    obnoxious.
    Article 400 talks about flexible cables. Cables not covered by that section
    are what I meant by non-flexible cables.

    >
    >> Am I overthinking this?
    >> Is the inspector incompetent?

    >
    > Yes.

    Yet again, nothing educational.
    Glad to have your non-input.

    >
    >
     
    mike, Nov 6, 2010
    #11
  12. mike

    The King Guest

    On Sat, 06 Nov 2010 00:21:31 -0400, .p.jm.@see_my_sig_for_address.com
    wrote:

    >On Fri, 05 Nov 2010 17:38:24 -0700, mike <> wrote:
    >
    >>Jon Elson wrote:
    >>> On 11/05/2010 07:34 AM, mike wrote:
    >>>> I'd like to be able to have temporary power hooked into my
    >>>> gas furnace in case of a prolonged power outage.
    >>>> Been digging through the electrical code. Not at all
    >>>> clear what's likely to pass muster. Don't want to talk
    >>>> to local inspectors until I have something likely to work.
    >>>>
    >>> Sure, I did this a couple years ago when we knew a major ice storm was
    >>> coming. When the lights went out, I wend down and unwired the furnace
    >>> from the permanent wiring and put a plug on the wires. When it got cold
    >>> enough to need it, I fired up the generator and ran extension cords to
    >>> the furnace and refrigerator. 90 minutes on the generator every 6 hours
    >>> or so was all it took to stay reasonably comfortable.
    >>>
    >>> This was all a temporary hack, as this sort of storm is quite rare here,
    >>> too. If you want totally installed wiring for emergency loads, an
    >>> electrician can wire up an emergency panel, but it will be somewhat
    >>> expensive to separate those loads from all the rest in the house.
    >>>
    >>> Jon

    >>
    >>I went down to city hall and talked to the electrical inspector.
    >>He said,
    >>"cut the furnace wire, install a plug, plug it into an outlet."
    >>I quizzed him about the permanent attachment of a furnace.
    >>He said,
    >>"I know of no requirement preventing a gas furnace from being plugged in
    >>to an outlet."
    >>I tried again:
    >>"the wire comes out of a box on the wall and goes to the furnace.
    >>If I cut the wire, install a plug, install a socket in the box
    >>and plug it in, that will pass your inspection as a permanent installation?"
    >>He said, "Yes."
    >>
    >>That easily solves my problem.
    >>
    >>I didn't have the citation handy, but rereading sections 400.7-400.8
    >>suggests that unless the furnace is on wheels ;-), I can't use a flexible
    >>cord.
    >>Not clear whether I can put a plug on a non-flexible cord or whether
    >>that resolves any code issues.

    >
    > WTF is a 'non-flexible cord' ?
    >
    >>

    Solid wire like Romex. And no you cannot.
     
    The King, Nov 6, 2010
    #12
  13. The plug and cord and socket technique works for refrigerators,
    freezers, toasters, etc. Each of them take more power than a typical
    furnace. Sounds safe, to me. I think the code calls for hard wired,
    though. If the local inspector will pass it, sounds like you're
    covered. And what's the odds something goes wrong? How many
    refrigerator plugs catch fire?

    --
    Christopher A. Young
    Learn more about Jesus
    www.lds.org
    ..


    "mike" <>
    wrote in message news:ib2825$kvq$-september.org...


    I went down to city hall and talked to the electrical inspector.
    He said,
    "cut the furnace wire, install a plug, plug it into an outlet."
    I quizzed him about the permanent attachment of a furnace.
    He said,
    "I know of no requirement preventing a gas furnace from being plugged
    in
    to an outlet."
    I tried again:
    "the wire comes out of a box on the wall and goes to the furnace.
    If I cut the wire, install a plug, install a socket in the box
    and plug it in, that will pass your inspection as a permanent
    installation?"
    He said, "Yes."

    That easily solves my problem.

    I didn't have the citation handy, but rereading sections 400.7-400.8
    suggests that unless the furnace is on wheels ;-), I can't use a
    flexible
    cord.
    Not clear whether I can put a plug on a non-flexible cord or whether
    that resolves any code issues.

    Am I overthinking this?
    Is the inspector incompetent?
     
    Stormin Mormon, Nov 6, 2010
    #13
  14. mike

    GEOD998 Guest

    On Nov 5, 8:34 am, mike <> wrote:
    > I'd like to be able to have temporary power hooked into my
    > gas furnace in case of a prolonged power outage.
    > Been digging through the electrical code.  Not at all
    > clear what's likely to pass muster.  Don't want to talk
    > to local inspectors until I have something likely to work.
    >
    > Power outages are rare.  I just don't want the plumbing to freeze
    > in the unlikely event of a prolonged winter storm.
    >
    > I can run a few lights off an extension cord.
    > But the furnace is permanently connected.
    > What are the ramifications of that?
    > I have a mostly empty box on the wall.  Wire comes in the bottom
    > and goes out the front through conduit to the furnace.
    > Wire nuts inside the furnace box connect it up.
    >
    > It's interesting that the box is insulating with a metal
    > cover plate and no ground connection except from the furnace
    > ground back thru the
    > conduit.  Sounds like it's already in violation of code???
    > House was built in 1972.
    >
    > Is there any code passing way to get a connector
    > in that wire?  Either inside the wall box or inside
    > the furnace box?  A connector would let me get it
    > completely disconnected from the main power
    > and wired up to the temporary generator.
    > What UL markings would I need on the connector assembly?
    > I'm in Oregon, USA.
    >
    > I'd like to avoid having to pull the wire nuts out of the
    > metal cage inside the furnace to disconnect it.
    > Connector would remove the error terms.


    find the line from the breaker box and the furnace-install a switch in
    that wire preferably close to the furnace-install a duplex outlet
    between that switch and the furnace-make a up a piece of Romex that
    will run between the area close to your genny and furnace permanently-
    on the furnace end of the romex install a HD male plug-on the other
    end mount a metal work box close to your Genny and inside that connect
    the romex to a HD outlet-then you can make an short extension cord out
    of romex that will be exclusivley for this purpose because its either
    going to have a male connector on both ends or you can use a twstlok
    on the genny side(which gives you more capacity on most gennys) and a
    HD male plug on the other.when the power goes out first flip the
    switch by the furnace which makes sure you dont have a problem if the
    power comes back on -then plug your cord into the duplex by the
    furnace(which you could have plugged in all the time for an extra
    outside outlet) then plug in the special double male romex ext cord
    and that will get you thru any emergency.I'm assuming your genny is a
    smaller 4-7KW unit that you will run outside-so this gives you an
    extra outside outlet when everything is normal and the switch is
    allowing breaker box power to run to your furnace(and the installed
    outlet) and it gives you a place to plug in the special ext cord
    quickly when you have an emergency-and you could even instruct your
    family on how to do this if you arent home when the power goes out.Now
    I'm sure I'm going to catch all kind of hell from you electricians-but
    I and my nieghbors in SW Pa were without power for 28 days last winter
    and we were snowed in-this setup allowed me to keep everyone alive and
    well with only 2 gennys for 5 houses - and it would let me do it again
    tomorrow if I had to.
     
    GEOD998, Nov 6, 2010
    #14
  15. Ah, the old suicide cord raises it's ugly head, again. Eventually,
    someone has to come along and reccomend the suicide cord.

    I thought you were going to suggest a single pole double throw switch,
    and the furnace could be powered either by the line, or by a power
    inlet. But, no.

    The fellow had a perfectly good idea, with the socket and plug. Which
    would have been as safe as the socket and plug behind your
    refrigerator.

    --
    Christopher A. Young
    Learn more about Jesus
    www.lds.org
    ..


    "GEOD998" <>
    wrote in message
    news:...

    find the line from the breaker box and the furnace-install a switch in
    that wire preferably close to the furnace-install a duplex outlet
    between that switch and the furnace-make a up a piece of Romex that
    will run between the area close to your genny and furnace permanently-
    on the furnace end of the romex install a HD male plug-on the other
    end mount a metal work box close to your Genny and inside that connect
    the romex to a HD outlet-then you can make an short extension cord out
    of romex that will be exclusivley for this purpose because its either
    going to have a male connector on both ends or you can use a twstlok
    on the genny side(which gives you more capacity on most gennys) and a
    HD male plug on the other.when the power goes out first flip the
    switch by the furnace which makes sure you dont have a problem if the
    power comes back on -then plug your cord into the duplex by the
    furnace(which you could have plugged in all the time for an extra
    outside outlet) then plug in the special double male romex ext cord
    and that will get you thru any emergency.I'm assuming your genny is a
    smaller 4-7KW unit that you will run outside-so this gives you an
    extra outside outlet when everything is normal and the switch is
    allowing breaker box power to run to your furnace(and the installed
    outlet) and it gives you a place to plug in the special ext cord
    quickly when you have an emergency-and you could even instruct your
    family on how to do this if you arent home when the power goes out.Now
    I'm sure I'm going to catch all kind of hell from you electricians-but
    I and my nieghbors in SW Pa were without power for 28 days last winter
    and we were snowed in-this setup allowed me to keep everyone alive and
    well with only 2 gennys for 5 houses - and it would let me do it again
    tomorrow if I had to.
     
    Stormin Mormon, Nov 6, 2010
    #15
  16. How about have the parts on hand. Wire them in, if the need occurs.
    After the power comes back, take all the generator connection fittings
    out, and put them back in the unlabelled box on the shelf. Don't
    discuss the matter with anyone local to you.

    I've heard of power company guys cutting the overhead feed cable if
    they find a house with a generator back feeding. To be totally sure
    the linemen aren't killed. The neighbors power comes back on with the
    grid, and they reconnect the overhead feed at thier leisure.

    --
    Christopher A. Young
    Learn more about Jesus
    www.lds.org
    ..


    "mike" <>
    wrote in message news:ib4qds$hn3$-september.org...


    My first thought was a variation on this.
    Use a 3-way switch so there's no possibility of backfeeding the main.
    Anybody looking at how it's wired, would probably be concerned.
    Problem is that the existing box in the wall is one-wide.
    Full-size 3-way switches are rated and marked for 377VAC.
    The combo switch/receptacle switches are marked for 125VAC.
    Probably the same guts inside, but still, the marking ain't right.
    If the power comes back on while the generator is running, you can get
    320VAC or so between switch poles. Combo switch ain't marked for
    that.

    Last time the inspector was out, he failed the "Professionally
    installed
    by licensed electrician" work because the new breakers had the wrong
    stickers on 'em. He didn't even look at the wiring...just the
    stickers.

    But, I digress...

    So, still have to turn off the main breaker.
    But if you're gonna turn off the main breaker, might as well use
    an existing receptacle for the suicide cord.

    My washer receptacle is a dedicated branch circuit with 20A breaker.
    Perfect place to plug the suicide cord from a 20A generator.
    It feeds back into the same phase of the system and back out the
    breaker to the furnace. I could also run the lights for the whole
    back side of the house on that side of the breaker box.

    The electrons would see this as a rational thing to do.
    But the lawyers and regulators and inspectors wouldn't agree.
    So, I'm trying to do something that's easy, safe and legal.

    Would be trivial to add a connector behind the access panel
    inside the furnace. But I've got 9 more years on the warranty.
    Don't want any chance of them voiding the warranty 'cause I
    tampered with the furnace.
     
    Stormin Mormon, Nov 7, 2010
    #16
  17. mike

    GEOD998 Guest

    On Nov 6, 8:27 pm, "Stormin Mormon"
    <cayoung61**> wrote:
    > How about have the parts on hand. Wire them in, if the need occurs.
    > After the power comes back, take all the generator connection fittings
    > out, and put them back in the unlabelled box on the shelf. Don't
    > discuss the matter with anyone local to you.
    >
    > I've heard of power company guys cutting the overhead feed cable if
    > they find a house with a generator back feeding. To be totally sure
    > the linemen aren't killed. The neighbors power comes back on with the
    > grid, and they reconnect the overhead feed at thier leisure.
    >
    > --
    > Christopher A. Young
    > Learn more about Jesus
    >  www.lds.org
    > .
    >
    > "mike" <>
    > wrote in messagenews:ib4qds$hn3$-september.org...
    >
    > My first thought was a variation on this.
    > Use a 3-way switch so there's no possibility of backfeeding the main.
    > Anybody looking at how it's wired, would probably be concerned.
    > Problem is that the existing box in the wall is one-wide.
    > Full-size 3-way switches are rated and marked for 377VAC.
    > The combo switch/receptacle switches are marked for 125VAC.
    > Probably the same guts inside, but still, the marking ain't right.
    > If the power comes back on while the generator is running, you can get
    > 320VAC or so between switch poles.  Combo switch ain't marked for
    > that.
    >
    > Last time the inspector was out, he failed the "Professionally
    > installed
    > by licensed electrician" work because the new breakers had the wrong
    > stickers on 'em.  He didn't even look at the wiring...just the
    > stickers.
    >
    > But, I digress...
    >
    > So, still have to turn off the main breaker.
    > But if you're gonna turn off the main breaker, might as well use
    > an existing receptacle for the suicide cord.
    >
    > My washer receptacle is a dedicated branch circuit with 20A breaker.
    > Perfect place to plug the suicide cord from a 20A generator.
    > It feeds back into the same phase of the system and back out the
    > breaker to the furnace.  I could also run the lights for the whole
    > back side of the house on that side of the breaker box.
    >
    > The electrons would see this as a rational thing to do.
    > But the lawyers and regulators and inspectors wouldn't agree.
    > So, I'm trying to do something that's easy, safe and legal.
    >
    > Would be trivial to add a connector behind the access panel
    > inside the furnace.  But I've got 9 more years on the warranty.
    > Don't want any chance of them voiding the warranty 'cause I
    > tampered with the furnace.


    when the suicide cord is unplugged there is NO chance of anything
    backfeeding-thats why I left it removable.When its unplugged(which is
    always except in the case of an emergency situation)it is nothing more
    than an an entension cord to an outside recepticle,or you can unplug
    it from the recepticle installed near the furnace and its nothing but
    those parts you need-only not on a shelf -they're close enough to
    where your family could be instructed on how to connect them and not
    freeze to death.The area I was in last winter was bad enough that it
    would have taken me,an ambulance,or just about anything other than a
    chopper days,maybe a week to get to my home
     
    GEOD998, Nov 7, 2010
    #17
  18. I'm not usually a person who goes with conventional wisdom. I do at
    least a few things wrong. That said, the reason suicide cords are so
    named. Is that it takes only one or two small mistakes to kill
    someone -- and that someone may be a lineman out of your sight. You
    can reason all you want, but the accepted, conventional wisdom is not
    to make, or use suicide cords. This conventional wisdom is from years
    of actual experience.

    I'll further add that the family member you instruct may or may not
    follow the directions exactly. How will you feel when you come home
    and find out that your family member accidentally killed a lineman,
    and s/he has to live with that, forever?

    Since you know that you live far away, you do have some time in which
    to prepare a safe way to wire the generator in. Is it worth the risk
    to save a few bucks, or find a safe way to wire?

    --
    Christopher A. Young
    Learn more about Jesus
    www.lds.org
    ..


    "GEOD998" <>
    wrote in message
    news:...

    when the suicide cord is unplugged there is NO chance of anything
    backfeeding-thats why I left it removable.When its unplugged(which is
    always except in the case of an emergency situation)it is nothing more
    than an an entension cord to an outside recepticle,or you can unplug
    it from the recepticle installed near the furnace and its nothing but
    those parts you need-only not on a shelf -they're close enough to
    where your family could be instructed on how to connect them and not
    freeze to death.The area I was in last winter was bad enough that it
    would have taken me,an ambulance,or just about anything other than a
    chopper days,maybe a week to get to my home
     
    Stormin Mormon, Nov 7, 2010
    #18
  19. In <> .p.jm.@see_my_sig_for_address.com writes:

    >On Sun, 7 Nov 2010 09:47:08 -0800, "Grumpy" <>
    >wrote:


    >>Gentlemen there are many ways in emergency that power can be found
    >>and in emergency code does not apply and I say it again in "emergency"
    >>code does not apply.
    >>Temporary work can be jury rig in any style as long it is safe.


    > Where exactly do you find that exception in NEC ? Or SBC ?
    >Or any other code or ordinance or insurance policy ?


    He got it from the same place the privateers^h^h private contractors
    working on the electrical plumbing for the showers in Iraq found
    theirs. (A dozen, or possibly more by now, US troops died discovering
    that water and electricity don't mix very well. Seriously [a]).

    > Other than pulling it out of your ass, that is.


    Eyup.

    [a] http://www.armytimes.com/news/2008/03/military_iraq_electrocutions_031908w/

    --
    _____________________________________________________
    Knowledge may be power, but communications is the key

    [to foil spammers, my address has been double rot-13 encoded]
     
    danny burstein, Nov 7, 2010
    #19
  20. mike

    Steve Guest


    > I went down to city hall and talked to the electrical inspector.
    > He said,
    > "cut the furnace wire, install a plug, plug it into an outlet."
    > I quizzed him about the permanent attachment of a furnace.
    > He said,
    > "I know of no requirement preventing a gas furnace from being plugged in
    > to an outlet."
    > I tried again:
    > "the wire comes out of a box on the wall and goes to the furnace.
    > If I cut the wire, install a plug, install a socket in the box
    > and plug it in, that will pass your inspection as a permanent
    > installation?"
    > He said, "Yes."


    The only legitimate way to handle the problem is to install a switched wall
    receptical for the furnace in the closet, and put a pigtail with plug on the
    furnace, then plug it into the receptical.

    if you need to run the furnace on an emergency basis, unplug it from the
    wall and plug it into an extention cord from the generator.

    Keep in mind that the electronics in new furnaces MUST HAVE CLEAN POWER and
    will shut down the furnace if there is a problem.
     
    Steve, Nov 7, 2010
    #20
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