Gas Bayonet Connector

Discussion in 'UK DIY' started by PoP, Nov 7, 2003.

  1. PoP

    PoP Guest

    Don't panic, I'm not about to try and fit one - even though I have
    done in the past.

    Can someone confirm whether gas bayonet fittings are still legal
    tender? I'm sure I read somewhere that their use had been deprecated
    in recent legislation.

    Reason for asking is that someone has asked me about a kitchen fitting
    job and he mentioned that moving the gas cooker during the work
    wouldn't be a problem because it has a bayonet fitting.

    PoP
     
    PoP, Nov 7, 2003
    #1
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  2. PoP

    BillR Guest

    PoP wrote:
    > Don't panic, I'm not about to try and fit one - even though I have
    > done in the past.
    >
    > Can someone confirm whether gas bayonet fittings are still legal
    > tender? I'm sure I read somewhere that their use had been deprecated
    > in recent legislation.
    >
    > Reason for asking is that someone has asked me about a kitchen fitting
    > job and he mentioned that moving the gas cooker during the work
    > wouldn't be a problem because it has a bayonet fitting.
    >
    > PoP


    They're still on sale in the usual suspects.
    On the other had they are the ones who have the sign about having your gas
    appliance installed by a Corgi registered electrician :)
     
    BillR, Nov 7, 2003
    #2
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  3. PoP

    Ed Sirett Guest

    On Fri, 07 Nov 2003 16:12:37 +0000, PoP wrote:

    > Don't panic, I'm not about to try and fit one - even though I have
    > done in the past.
    >
    > Can someone confirm whether gas bayonet fittings are still legal
    > tender? I'm sure I read somewhere that their use had been deprecated
    > in recent legislation.
    >
    > Reason for asking is that someone has asked me about a kitchen fitting
    > job and he mentioned that moving the gas cooker during the work
    > wouldn't be a problem because it has a bayonet fitting.
    >

    They are fine when used correctly and in the right place.

    If the kitchen fitting job simply means unplugging and relocating the
    cooker and then later recoonecting then I don't see that there is any gas
    fitting to be done.

    BTW I see that adverts for kitchen fitting crews now require at least one
    memeber to hold CORGI regitration, presumably so that the crew can install
    a gas hob.

    --
    Ed Sirett - Property maintainer and registered gas fitter.
    The FAQ for uk.diy is at www.diyfaq.org.uk
    Gas fitting FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/GasFitting.html
    Sealed CH FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/SealedCH.html
     
    Ed Sirett, Nov 7, 2003
    #3
  4. PoP

    Andy Dingley Guest

    On Fri, 07 Nov 2003 18:00:33 +0000, "Ed Sirett"
    <> wrote:

    >BTW I see that adverts for kitchen fitting crews now require at least one
    >memeber to hold CORGI regitration, presumably so that the crew can install
    >a gas hob.


    What are the rules for a gas hob (screwed down to a worktop) and
    flexible hoses / bayonet connectors ?

    If a kitchen already has a roll-out cooker with a bayonet (perfectly
    OK) and a non-CORGI chippie installs new cupboards, leaves the gas
    fitting alone, then installs such a fixed hob with a flex hose, how
    does this square uo with the CORGI rules ?

    --
    Die Gotterspammerung - Junkmail of the Gods
     
    Andy Dingley, Nov 8, 2003
    #4
  5. "Andy Dingley" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > On Fri, 07 Nov 2003 18:00:33 +0000, "Ed Sirett"
    > <> wrote:


    > What are the rules for a gas hob (screwed down to a worktop) and
    > flexible hoses / bayonet connectors ?
    >
    > If a kitchen already has a roll-out cooker with a bayonet (perfectly
    > OK) and a non-CORGI chippie installs new cupboards, leaves the gas
    > fitting alone, then installs such a fixed hob with a flex hose, how
    > does this square uo with the CORGI rules ?


    If the hob comes with a flexible hose attached then that might be OK (but I
    doubt it*)

    If the hob manufacturer's instructions allow it to be connected by a
    flexible hose but there's no hose connected to the hob then I think it would
    require a 'competent person' (read CORGI if it's being done for reward) to
    connect the hose to the hob.

    * AIUI the point of the regs (Gas Safety Installation and Use Regs 1998, not
    CORGI rules BTW) is that when the cooker - even a freestanding/slot-in one -
    is installed it should be done so by a competent person to ensure that the
    installation meets requirements for clearances from combustible surfaces and
    ventilation. Once it is installed then the householder may disconnect and
    reconnect a freestanding cooker using the bayonet connector in order to
    clean behind the cooker, retrieve stray cutlery, children's toys etc.


    --
    John Stumbles
    -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
    -+
     
    John Stumbles, Nov 8, 2003
    #5
  6. PoP

    PoP Guest

    On Fri, 07 Nov 2003 18:00:33 +0000, "Ed Sirett"
    <> wrote:

    >BTW I see that adverts for kitchen fitting crews now require at least one
    >memeber to hold CORGI regitration, presumably so that the crew can install
    >a gas hob.


    I do kitchen fitting as needed. And my take on it is that I can fit a
    hob and/or oven no problem - but the final connection to the gas
    supply must be done by a CORGI registered engineer.

    At this rate government will prevent people checking their oil because
    new legislation prevents anyone opening a bonnet who isn't a
    street-cred mechanic.

    PoP
     
    PoP, Nov 8, 2003
    #6
  7. PoP

    Ed Sirett Guest

    On Sat, 08 Nov 2003 14:38:43 +0000, John Stumbles wrote:

    > "Andy Dingley" <> wrote in message
    > news:...
    >> On Fri, 07 Nov 2003 18:00:33 +0000, "Ed Sirett"
    >> <> wrote:

    >
    >> What are the rules for a gas hob (screwed down to a worktop) and
    >> flexible hoses / bayonet connectors ?
    >>
    >> If a kitchen already has a roll-out cooker with a bayonet (perfectly
    >> OK) and a non-CORGI chippie installs new cupboards, leaves the gas
    >> fitting alone, then installs such a fixed hob with a flex hose, how
    >> does this square uo with the CORGI rules ?

    >
    > If the hob comes with a flexible hose attached then that might be OK (but I
    > doubt it*)
    >
    > If the hob manufacturer's instructions allow it to be connected by a
    > flexible hose but there's no hose connected to the hob then I think it would
    > require a 'competent person' (read CORGI if it's being done for reward) to
    > connect the hose to the hob.
    >
    > * AIUI the point of the regs (Gas Safety Installation and Use Regs 1998, not
    > CORGI rules BTW) is that when the cooker - even a freestanding/slot-in one -
    > is installed it should be done so by a competent person to ensure that the
    > installation meets requirements for clearances from combustible surfaces and
    > ventilation. Once it is installed then the householder may disconnect and
    > reconnect a freestanding cooker using the bayonet connector in order to
    > clean behind the cooker, retrieve stray cutlery, children's toys etc.
    >
    >

    I think it is forthis reason that all new free standing cookers require a
    hose to be added.

    The technicalities of hob with hose yes or no? Are dealt with in the gas
    fitting FAQ.

    --
    Ed Sirett - Property maintainer and registered gas fitter.
    The FAQ for uk.diy is at www.diyfaq.org.uk
    Gas fitting FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/GasFitting.html
    Sealed CH FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/SealedCH.html
     
    Ed Sirett, Nov 8, 2003
    #7
  8. PoP

    Ed Sirett Guest

    On Sat, 08 Nov 2003 15:49:04 +0000, PoP wrote:

    > On Fri, 07 Nov 2003 18:00:33 +0000, "Ed Sirett"
    > <> wrote:
    >
    >>BTW I see that adverts for kitchen fitting crews now require at least one
    >>memeber to hold CORGI regitration, presumably so that the crew can install
    >>a gas hob.

    >
    > I do kitchen fitting as needed. And my take on it is that I can fit a
    > hob and/or oven no problem - but the final connection to the gas
    > supply must be done by a CORGI registered engineer.
    >
    > At this rate government will prevent people checking their oil because
    > new legislation prevents anyone opening a bonnet who isn't a
    > street-cred mechanic.
    >


    AIUI the ethos of the ever increasing legislation would be to permit
    anyone to _check_ the oil and/or top it up but would require a certified
    mechanic to change the oil.

    The certified mechanic would have shown that he knows where not to dispose
    of the old oil - but of course would still dispose of it by the most
    convenient method in practice. The mechanic would charge a lot for this
    service because he would have to recoup his registration and certification
    fees - and of course knows that others are illegal.

    --
    Ed Sirett - Property maintainer and registered gas fitter.
    The FAQ for uk.diy is at www.diyfaq.org.uk
    Gas fitting FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/GasFitting.html
    Sealed CH FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/SealedCH.html
     
    Ed Sirett, Nov 8, 2003
    #8
  9. PoP

    BigWallop Guest

    "John Stumbles" <postmaster@[127.0.0.1]> wrote in message
    news:4a7rb.260$...
    > "Andy Dingley" <> wrote in message
    > news:...
    > > On Fri, 07 Nov 2003 18:00:33 +0000, "Ed Sirett"
    > > <> wrote:

    >
    > > What are the rules for a gas hob (screwed down to a worktop) and
    > > flexible hoses / bayonet connectors ?
    > >
    > > If a kitchen already has a roll-out cooker with a bayonet (perfectly
    > > OK) and a non-CORGI chippie installs new cupboards, leaves the gas
    > > fitting alone, then installs such a fixed hob with a flex hose, how
    > > does this square uo with the CORGI rules ?

    >
    > If the hob comes with a flexible hose attached then that might be OK (but

    I
    > doubt it*)
    >
    > If the hob manufacturer's instructions allow it to be connected by a
    > flexible hose but there's no hose connected to the hob then I think it

    would
    > require a 'competent person' (read CORGI if it's being done for reward) to
    > connect the hose to the hob.
    >


    Manufacturers instructions don't tell you how to fit the hob, other than
    telling you it needs a proper gas supply. It's the gas regulations which
    tell you which methods are the best and safest for the appliance. The hob
    can be fitted with rigid or flexible fittings to the supply, so it is down
    to your installer which method they think most suitable. A free standing
    stove can also be fitted with rigid plumbing, although this is less
    convenient if you want to roll it out for clean or maintenance.

    Anyone is allowed to connect the bayonet connector fitting because it is
    almost fool proof in its design and can only be fitted in one way, i.e. push
    it in, twist it a quarter turn, jobs done.
     
    BigWallop, Nov 8, 2003
    #9
  10. PoP

    Andy Dingley Guest

    On Sat, 08 Nov 2003 17:28:51 +0000, "Ed Sirett"
    <> wrote:

    >The technicalities of hob with hose yes or no? Are dealt with in the gas
    >fitting FAQ.


    I was thinking more of the legalities. What is "fitting" a gas hob ?
    (as in, that which a non-CORGI non-gas-fitter tradesman is not
    permitted to do for reward).

    Is a chippie (who can reasonably be expected to be capable of
    measuring) permitted to measure the room volume and ventilation, and
    decide that a particular hob's requirements are being safely met ?

    Can the chippie use a screwdriver to install the hob, or is "touching
    the fixed appliance" legally equivalent to "fitting" ?

    --
    Die Gotterspammerung - Junkmail of the Gods
     
    Andy Dingley, Nov 8, 2003
    #10
  11. PoP

    Ed Sirett Guest

    On Sat, 08 Nov 2003 19:54:45 +0000, Andy Dingley wrote:

    > On Sat, 08 Nov 2003 17:28:51 +0000, "Ed Sirett"
    > <> wrote:
    >
    >>The technicalities of hob with hose yes or no? Are dealt with in the gas
    >>fitting FAQ.

    >
    > I was thinking more of the legalities. What is "fitting" a gas hob ?
    > (as in, that which a non-CORGI non-gas-fitter tradesman is not
    > permitted to do for reward).
    >
    > Is a chippie (who can reasonably be expected to be capable of
    > measuring) permitted to measure the room volume and ventilation, and
    > decide that a particular hob's requirements are being safely met ?
    >
    > Can the chippie use a screwdriver to install the hob, or is "touching
    > the fixed appliance" legally equivalent to "fitting" ?
    >


    Note that some hob are explicitly forbidden to be supplied from a hose
    becasue the manufacturers forbid this. This means that there will be some
    gas pipework to work on. This introduces the subjects of sizing, soundness
    testing abd purging as well as being familiar with the correct materials
    and fittings needed.

    Here are some chunks from the Gas Fitting FAQ:

    Some jobs that look straightforward, for example, fitting an inset gas hob
    consists essentially of "cut hole, drop in hob, secure, and connect up to
    gas supply". However, this hides the fact that there is often a stack of
    standards of be complied with which the installation instructions may or
    may not tell you about. For instance, in the case of a gas hob the room
    in question must have a door, window or other vent that can be opened
    directly to outside air and the room must have a volume of at least 10
    cubic metres.

    Professionals should do many checks on their work, some of which may
    seem unnecessary at first. Before doing your own gas fitting, you should
    know and understand the relevant regulations and standards relative to
    every aspect of the task in hand, and your level of experience must be
    appropriate. For instance, if you are not confident that you can make a
    good soldered joint for a water pipe then do not even think about doing
    gas pipework.




    --
    Ed Sirett - Property maintainer and registered gas fitter.
    The FAQ for uk.diy is at www.diyfaq.org.uk
    Gas fitting FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/GasFitting.htmlA word of warning:
    Sealed CH FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/SealedCH.html
     
    Ed Sirett, Nov 8, 2003
    #11
  12. PoP

    Andy Dingley Guest

    On Sat, 08 Nov 2003 22:45:20 +0000, "Ed Sirett"
    <> wrote:

    >For instance, if you are not confident that you can make a
    >good soldered joint for a water pipe then do not even think about doing
    >gas pipework.


    A (water, non-CORGI) plumber is competent to make such joints, by any
    reasonable measure. But AIUI, they're forbidden from soldering the
    same joint in a gas pipe (or at least they require a small welsh dog
    to sign it off afterwards) _because_ it's a gas pipe.

    Now where does this boundary extend ? Can our non-CORGI chippie
    perform a chippying task that doesn't involve gas-carrying parts ?


    --
    Die Gotterspammerung - Junkmail of the Gods
     
    Andy Dingley, Nov 8, 2003
    #12
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