Furring strips ON TOP of my roof shingles?

Discussion in 'Misc DIY' started by a2mgoog@yahoo.com, Dec 3, 2007.

  1. Guest

    I live on the Oregon coast, and I am watching the shingles blow off of
    my roof. This doesn't happen often, but it happens often enough that
    I want to find a better way than just nailing them back on one at a
    time.

    My roof has "architectural" shingles, which to me just means they
    don't lie flat, and they make it a lot easier for the wind to get
    under them. It occurs to me that I could greatly reduce the chance of
    their blowing off if I nailed them down with furring strips every
    couple feet or so, i.e. 8' long, very light 1x2s running vertically
    from the peak to the gutter. I know it wouldn't look great, but the
    biggest problem is with the part of the roof that faces the back yard,
    so they wouldn't be visible from the street. And if I painted them
    dark brown, they might not be visible at all unless someone was
    looking for them.

    I realize that it would hurt the resale, but a) I have no plans to
    move, and b) it wouldn't take much extra work to pull them up when I
    get a new roof, which I would have to do if I sold the house anyway.

    So, comments? Other than the looks, is there any structural or
    practical reason why they wouldn't work?
     
    , Dec 3, 2007
    #1
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  2. RicodJour Guest

    On Dec 3, 6:19 pm, wrote:
    > I live on the Oregon coast, and I am watching the shingles blow off of
    > my roof. This doesn't happen often, but it happens often enough that
    > I want to find a better way than just nailing them back on one at a
    > time.
    >
    > My roof has "architectural" shingles, which to me just means they
    > don't lie flat, and they make it a lot easier for the wind to get
    > under them. It occurs to me that I could greatly reduce the chance of
    > their blowing off if I nailed them down with furring strips every
    > couple feet or so, i.e. 8' long, very light 1x2s running vertically
    > from the peak to the gutter. I know it wouldn't look great, but the
    > biggest problem is with the part of the roof that faces the back yard,
    > so they wouldn't be visible from the street. And if I painted them
    > dark brown, they might not be visible at all unless someone was
    > looking for them.
    >
    > I realize that it would hurt the resale, but a) I have no plans to
    > move, and b) it wouldn't take much extra work to pull them up when I
    > get a new roof, which I would have to do if I sold the house anyway.
    >
    > So, comments? Other than the looks, is there any structural or
    > practical reason why they wouldn't work?


    It would be similar to using a collander as a hat in a rain storm.
    It'll leak like a sieve, and it'll look like crap.

    Buy some roof cement in caulking tubes, gently pry up and separate the
    shingles (sounds like they're not sealed together), and squirt a dab
    of roof cement under the shingles every 4" to 6". That'll bond one
    layer to the next and will take care of the blow off problem. Only
    problem is that it is work that is best done in warmer weather.

    R
     
    RicodJour, Dec 4, 2007
    #2
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  3. Guest

    On Dec 3, 4:26 pm, RicodJour <> wrote:
    > On Dec 3, 6:19 pm, wrote:
    >
    >
    >
    > > I live on the Oregon coast, and I am watching the shingles blow off of
    > > my roof. This doesn't happen often, but it happens often enough that
    > > I want to find a better way than just nailing them back on one at a
    > > time.

    >
    > > My roof has "architectural" shingles, which to me just means they
    > > don't lie flat, and they make it a lot easier for the wind to get
    > > under them. It occurs to me that I could greatly reduce the chance of
    > > their blowing off if I nailed them down with furring strips every
    > > couple feet or so, i.e. 8' long, very light 1x2s running vertically
    > > from the peak to the gutter. I know it wouldn't look great, but the
    > > biggest problem is with the part of the roof that faces the back yard,
    > > so they wouldn't be visible from the street. And if I painted them
    > > dark brown, they might not be visible at all unless someone was
    > > looking for them.

    >
    > > I realize that it would hurt the resale, but a) I have no plans to
    > > move, and b) it wouldn't take much extra work to pull them up when I
    > > get a new roof, which I would have to do if I sold the house anyway.

    >
    > > So, comments? Other than the looks, is there any structural or
    > > practical reason why they wouldn't work?

    >
    > It would be similar to using a collander as a hat in a rain storm.
    > It'll leak like a sieve, and it'll look like crap.
    >
    > Buy some roof cement in caulking tubes, gently pry up and separate the
    > shingles (sounds like they're not sealed together), and squirt a dab
    > of roof cement under the shingles every 4" to 6". That'll bond one
    > layer to the next and will take care of the blow off problem. Only
    > problem is that it is work that is best done in warmer weather.
    >
    > R




    Why would it leak? Maybe I didn't make it clear that the strips are
    going over the shingles just to hold them down; I'm not expecting the
    strips to provide any rain protection. I won't need many nails per
    strip, and I'll put tar over the nails.
     
    , Dec 4, 2007
    #3
  4. DerbyDad03 Guest

    On Dec 3, 10:27 pm, wrote:
    > On Dec 3, 4:26 pm, RicodJour <> wrote:
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    > > On Dec 3, 6:19 pm, wrote:

    >
    > > > I live on the Oregon coast, and I am watching the shingles blow off of
    > > > my roof. This doesn't happen often, but it happens often enough that
    > > > I want to find a better way than just nailing them back on one at a
    > > > time.

    >
    > > > My roof has "architectural" shingles, which to me just means they
    > > > don't lie flat, and they make it a lot easier for the wind to get
    > > > under them. It occurs to me that I could greatly reduce the chance of
    > > > their blowing off if I nailed them down with furring strips every
    > > > couple feet or so, i.e. 8' long, very light 1x2s running vertically
    > > > from the peak to the gutter. I know it wouldn't look great, but the
    > > > biggest problem is with the part of the roof that faces the back yard,
    > > > so they wouldn't be visible from the street. And if I painted them
    > > > dark brown, they might not be visible at all unless someone was
    > > > looking for them.

    >
    > > > I realize that it would hurt the resale, but a) I have no plans to
    > > > move, and b) it wouldn't take much extra work to pull them up when I
    > > > get a new roof, which I would have to do if I sold the house anyway.

    >
    > > > So, comments? Other than the looks, is there any structural or
    > > > practical reason why they wouldn't work?

    >
    > > It would be similar to using a collander as a hat in a rain storm.
    > > It'll leak like a sieve, and it'll look like crap.

    >
    > > Buy some roof cement in caulking tubes, gently pry up and separate the
    > > shingles (sounds like they're not sealed together), and squirt a dab
    > > of roof cement under the shingles every 4" to 6". That'll bond one
    > > layer to the next and will take care of the blow off problem. Only
    > > problem is that it is work that is best done in warmer weather.

    >
    > > R

    >
    > Why would it leak? Maybe I didn't make it clear that the strips are
    > going over the shingles just to hold them down; I'm not expecting the
    > strips to provide any rain protection. I won't need many nails per
    > strip, and I'll put tar over the nails.- Hide quoted text -
    >
    > - Show quoted text -


    re: I'll put tar over the nails

    What's going to prevent the water from going through the nail holes
    *under* the furring strips?

    Please don't tell us you'll caulk around each furring strip to seal
    the seam where it meets the roof.
     
    DerbyDad03, Dec 4, 2007
    #4
  5. RicodJour Guest

    On Dec 3, 10:27 pm, wrote:
    > On Dec 3, 4:26 pm, RicodJour <> wrote:
    >
    >
    >
    > > On Dec 3, 6:19 pm, wrote:

    >
    > > > I live on the Oregon coast, and I am watching the shingles blow off of
    > > > my roof. This doesn't happen often, but it happens often enough that
    > > > I want to find a better way than just nailing them back on one at a
    > > > time.

    >
    > > > My roof has "architectural" shingles, which to me just means they
    > > > don't lie flat, and they make it a lot easier for the wind to get
    > > > under them. It occurs to me that I could greatly reduce the chance of
    > > > their blowing off if I nailed them down with furring strips every
    > > > couple feet or so, i.e. 8' long, very light 1x2s running vertically
    > > > from the peak to the gutter. I know it wouldn't look great, but the
    > > > biggest problem is with the part of the roof that faces the back yard,
    > > > so they wouldn't be visible from the street. And if I painted them
    > > > dark brown, they might not be visible at all unless someone was
    > > > looking for them.

    >
    > > > I realize that it would hurt the resale, but a) I have no plans to
    > > > move, and b) it wouldn't take much extra work to pull them up when I
    > > > get a new roof, which I would have to do if I sold the house anyway.

    >
    > > > So, comments? Other than the looks, is there any structural or
    > > > practical reason why they wouldn't work?

    >
    > > It would be similar to using a collander as a hat in a rain storm.
    > > It'll leak like a sieve, and it'll look like crap.

    >
    > > Buy some roof cement in caulking tubes, gently pry up and separate the
    > > shingles (sounds like they're not sealed together), and squirt a dab
    > > of roof cement under the shingles every 4" to 6". That'll bond one
    > > layer to the next and will take care of the blow off problem. Only
    > > problem is that it is work that is best done in warmer weather.

    >
    > Why would it leak? Maybe I didn't make it clear that the strips are
    > going over the shingles just to hold them down; I'm not expecting the
    > strips to provide any rain protection. I won't need many nails per
    > strip, and I'll put tar over the nails.


    I've changed my mind. You've convinced me that you're right. Zero
    chance it'll leak. Nail away!

    BTW, we'll be electing a new alt.home.repair moderator and I feel you
    should nominate yourself. You've got mad construction skillz.

    R
     
    RicodJour, Dec 4, 2007
    #5
  6. Guest

    wrote:
    > I live on the Oregon coast, and I am watching the shingles blow off of
    > my roof. This doesn't happen often, but it happens often enough that
    > I want to find a better way than just nailing them back on one at a
    > time.
    >
    > My roof has "architectural" shingles, which to me just means they
    > don't lie flat, and they make it a lot easier for the wind to get
    > under them. It occurs to me that I could greatly reduce the chance of
    > their blowing off if I nailed them down with furring strips every
    > couple feet or so, i.e. 8' long, very light 1x2s running vertically
    > from the peak to the gutter. I know it wouldn't look great, but the
    > biggest problem is with the part of the roof that faces the back yard,
    > so they wouldn't be visible from the street. And if I painted them
    > dark brown, they might not be visible at all unless someone was
    > looking for them.
    >
    > I realize that it would hurt the resale, but a) I have no plans to
    > move, and b) it wouldn't take much extra work to pull them up when I
    > get a new roof, which I would have to do if I sold the house anyway.
    >
    > So, comments? Other than the looks, is there any structural or
    > practical reason why they wouldn't work?



    LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL
     
    , Dec 4, 2007
    #6
  7. "RicodJour" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > On Dec 3, 10:27 pm, wrote:
    >> On Dec 3, 4:26 pm, RicodJour <> wrote:
    >>
    >>
    >>
    >> > On Dec 3, 6:19 pm, wrote:

    >>
    >> > > I live on the Oregon coast, and I am watching the shingles blow off
    >> > > of
    >> > > my roof. This doesn't happen often, but it happens often enough that
    >> > > I want to find a better way than just nailing them back on one at a
    >> > > time.

    >>
    >> > > My roof has "architectural" shingles, which to me just means they
    >> > > don't lie flat, and they make it a lot easier for the wind to get
    >> > > under them. It occurs to me that I could greatly reduce the chance
    >> > > of
    >> > > their blowing off if I nailed them down with furring strips every
    >> > > couple feet or so, i.e. 8' long, very light 1x2s running vertically
    >> > > from the peak to the gutter. I know it wouldn't look great, but the
    >> > > biggest problem is with the part of the roof that faces the back
    >> > > yard,
    >> > > so they wouldn't be visible from the street. And if I painted them
    >> > > dark brown, they might not be visible at all unless someone was
    >> > > looking for them.

    >>
    >> > > I realize that it would hurt the resale, but a) I have no plans to
    >> > > move, and b) it wouldn't take much extra work to pull them up when I
    >> > > get a new roof, which I would have to do if I sold the house anyway.

    >>
    >> > > So, comments? Other than the looks, is there any structural or
    >> > > practical reason why they wouldn't work?

    >>
    >> > It would be similar to using a collander as a hat in a rain storm.
    >> > It'll leak like a sieve, and it'll look like crap.

    >>
    >> > Buy some roof cement in caulking tubes, gently pry up and separate the
    >> > shingles (sounds like they're not sealed together), and squirt a dab
    >> > of roof cement under the shingles every 4" to 6". That'll bond one
    >> > layer to the next and will take care of the blow off problem. Only
    >> > problem is that it is work that is best done in warmer weather.

    >>
    >> Why would it leak? Maybe I didn't make it clear that the strips are
    >> going over the shingles just to hold them down; I'm not expecting the
    >> strips to provide any rain protection. I won't need many nails per
    >> strip, and I'll put tar over the nails.

    >
    > I've changed my mind. You've convinced me that you're right. Zero
    > chance it'll leak. Nail away!
    >
    > BTW, we'll be electing a new alt.home.repair moderator and I feel you
    > should nominate yourself. You've got mad construction skillz.
    >
    > R



    That's sKiLlZ.
     
    JoeSpareBedroom, Dec 4, 2007
    #7
  8. Guest

    On Dec 3, 8:13 pm, RicodJour <> wrote:
    > On Dec 3, 10:27 pm, wrote:
    >
    >
    >
    > > On Dec 3, 4:26 pm, RicodJour <> wrote:

    >
    > > > On Dec 3, 6:19 pm, wrote:

    >
    > > > > I live on the Oregon coast, and I am watching the shingles blow off of
    > > > > my roof. This doesn't happen often, but it happens often enough that
    > > > > I want to find a better way than just nailing them back on one at a
    > > > > time.

    >
    > > > > My roof has "architectural" shingles, which to me just means they
    > > > > don't lie flat, and they make it a lot easier for the wind to get
    > > > > under them. It occurs to me that I could greatly reduce the chance of
    > > > > their blowing off if I nailed them down withfurringstrips every
    > > > > couple feet or so, i.e. 8' long, very light 1x2s running vertically
    > > > > from the peak to the gutter. I know it wouldn't look great, but the
    > > > > biggest problem is with the part of the roof that faces the back yard,
    > > > > so they wouldn't be visible from the street. And if I painted them
    > > > > dark brown, they might not be visible at all unless someone was
    > > > > looking for them.

    >
    > > > > I realize that it would hurt the resale, but a) I have no plans to
    > > > > move, and b) it wouldn't take much extra work to pull them up when I
    > > > > get a new roof, which I would have to do if I sold the house anyway.

    >
    > > > > So, comments? Other than the looks, is there any structural or
    > > > > practical reason why they wouldn't work?

    >
    > > > It would be similar to using a collander as a hat in a rain storm.
    > > > It'll leak like a sieve, and it'll look like crap.

    >
    > > > Buy some roof cement in caulking tubes, gently pry up and separate the
    > > > shingles (sounds like they're not sealed together), and squirt a dab
    > > > of roof cement under the shingles every 4" to 6". That'll bond one
    > > > layer to the next and will take care of the blow off problem. Only
    > > > problem is that it is work that is best done in warmer weather.

    >
    > > Why would it leak? Maybe I didn't make it clear that the strips are
    > > going over the shingles just to hold them down; I'm not expecting the
    > > strips to provide any rain protection. I won't need many nails per
    > > strip, and I'll put tar over the nails.

    >
    > I've changed my mind. You've convinced me that you're right. Zero
    > chance it'll leak. Nail away!
    >
    > BTW, we'll be electing a new alt.home.repair moderator and I feel you
    > should nominate yourself. You've got mad construction skillz.
    >
    > R


    I wasn't trying to argue with anyone, I was just asking for
    information. Sorry to have bothered you.
     
    , Dec 4, 2007
    #8
  9. Guest

    On Dec 3, 9:14 pm, "Pat" <> wrote:
    > <> wrote in message
    >
    > news:...
    >
    >
    >
    > >I live on the Oregon coast, and I am watching the shingles blow off of
    > > my roof. This doesn't happen often, but it happens often enough that
    > > I want to find a better way than just nailing them back on one at a
    > > time.

    >
    > > My roof has "architectural" shingles, which to me just means they
    > > don't lie flat, and they make it a lot easier for the wind to get
    > > under them. It occurs to me that I could greatly reduce the chance of
    > > their blowing off if I nailed them down withfurringstrips every
    > > couple feet or so, i.e. 8' long, very light 1x2s running vertically
    > > from the peak to the gutter. I know it wouldn't look great, but the
    > > biggest problem is with the part of the roof that faces the back yard,
    > > so they wouldn't be visible from the street. And if I painted them
    > > dark brown, they might not be visible at all unless someone was
    > > looking for them.

    >
    > > I realize that it would hurt the resale, but a) I have no plans to
    > > move, and b) it wouldn't take much extra work to pull them up when I
    > > get a new roof, which I would have to do if I sold the house anyway.

    >
    > > So, comments? Other than the looks, is there any structural or
    > > practical reason why they wouldn't work?

    >
    > Once the shingles start flapping in the wind the roof needs to be replaced.
    > Gluing the shingles back down with roofing cement is the correct way to
    > proceed as a temporary repair until summer when the roof can be replaced.
    > However if you prefer to nail them down with boards go ahead. Or simply
    > skip the boards and nail the flaps down. May make the roof a little harder
    > to replace but I can't see any harm. Consider it a temporary repair until
    > you get some dry weather.



    Thank you for your helpful reply, which I didn't realize would be so
    hard to come by in this group. Everything you said makes sense, but
    the roof is only five years old. The people who put it on are pretty
    much the only roofers in this very small town, so I have no reason to
    expect they will do it any better than the first time. To be fair to
    them, my house is on top of a hill, and apparently sits right square
    at the apex of a funnel formed by the terrain, so I get the strongest
    winds around here, which is saying something. I had an anemeometer
    rated for 80mph that broke.

    I have a pension lump sum payment coming in a couple of years, and
    when I get it I'll probably replace the roof with something designed
    for the high winds, but I can't afford a replacement until then. For
    now, I've just been nailing the shingles back on (which is what the
    "pros" did for the first two years, then they said I was on my own).

    I've been using very short nails which I don't think are long enough
    to go all the way through the plywood on the roof. At any rate, I've
    nailed a lot of shingles up there over the past three years, and I
    haven't seen any leaks. And like I said, I put tar over the nails.
    Should that work for a few years if I refresh the tar every summer?

    I guess I could go over the whole roof and glue every shingle, but
    geez that sounds like a lot of work. A lot of them *are* glued,
    because when I was watching the storm a big section of them, about the
    size of a car door, was flapping as a unit. That's what made me think
    that nailing furring strips over them might help. I think the problem
    is that it rarely gets up to 70 degrees in the summer here, so the
    glue doesn't melt well. And I could probably get away with just
    putting the strips on the windward edges, because that's where all the
    damage was.

    One of the comedians here accidentally made a helpful comment about
    leaking from under the furring strips. If I put some gobs of tar on
    the shingles, then put the board on top of the tar, and then nailed
    throught the board, tar, and shingles (before the tar dries), would
    that make it waterproof? Would using silicone sealant instead of tar
    make any difference?

    Thanks for any help, and sorry to bother the other guys.
     
    , Dec 4, 2007
    #9
  10. RicodJour Guest

    On Dec 4, 4:29 pm, wrote:
    > On Dec 3, 9:14 pm, "Pat" <> wrote:
    > > On Dec 3, wrote:

    >
    > > >I live on the Oregon coast, and I am watching the shingles blow off of
    > > > my roof. This doesn't happen often, but it happens often enough that
    > > > I want to find a better way than just nailing them back on one at a
    > > > time.

    >
    > > > My roof has "architectural" shingles, which to me just means they
    > > > don't lie flat, and they make it a lot easier for the wind to get
    > > > under them. It occurs to me that I could greatly reduce the chance of
    > > > their blowing off if I nailed them down withfurringstrips every
    > > > couple feet or so, i.e. 8' long, very light 1x2s running vertically
    > > > from the peak to the gutter. I know it wouldn't look great, but the
    > > > biggest problem is with the part of the roof that faces the back yard,
    > > > so they wouldn't be visible from the street. And if I painted them
    > > > dark brown, they might not be visible at all unless someone was
    > > > looking for them.

    >
    > > > I realize that it would hurt the resale, but a) I have no plans to
    > > > move, and b) it wouldn't take much extra work to pull them up when I
    > > > get a new roof, which I would have to do if I sold the house anyway.

    >
    > > > So, comments? Other than the looks, is there any structural or
    > > > practical reason why they wouldn't work?

    >
    > > Once the shingles start flapping in the wind the roof needs to be replaced.
    > > Gluing the shingles back down with roofing cement is the correct way to
    > > proceed as a temporary repair until summer when the roof can be replaced.
    > > However if you prefer to nail them down with boards go ahead. Or simply
    > > skip the boards and nail the flaps down. May make the roof a little harder
    > > to replace but I can't see any harm. Consider it a temporary repair until
    > > you get some dry weather.

    >
    > Thank you for your helpful reply, which I didn't realize would be so
    > hard to come by in this group. Everything you said makes sense, but
    > the roof is only five years old. The people who put it on are pretty
    > much the only roofers in this very small town, so I have no reason to
    > expect they will do it any better than the first time. To be fair to
    > them, my house is on top of a hill, and apparently sits right square
    > at the apex of a funnel formed by the terrain, so I get the strongest
    > winds around here, which is saying something. I had an anemeometer
    > rated for 80mph that broke.


    In such a high wind area you should have used shingles with a higher
    wind rating and used an increased nailing pattern (six nails instead
    of four per 3' shingle). Basically all information necessary is right
    on the shingle package wrapper.

    > I have a pension lump sum payment coming in a couple of years, and
    > when I get it I'll probably replace the roof with something designed
    > for the high winds, but I can't afford a replacement until then. For
    > now, I've just been nailing the shingles back on (which is what the
    > "pros" did for the first two years, then they said I was on my own).
    >
    > I've been using very short nails which I don't think are long enough
    > to go all the way through the plywood on the roof.


    The kiss of death for any roof. The nails _must_ penetrate the roof
    sheathing.

    > At any rate, I've
    > nailed a lot of shingles up there over the past three years, and I
    > haven't seen any leaks. And like I said, I put tar over the nails.
    > Should that work for a few years if I refresh the tar every summer?


    There is a definite correlation between amount of time spent on a roof
    by amateurs and decreased life expectancy. You're asking people to
    guess on your skill, roof and climactic conditions and predict an
    outcome it's still a guess. Should it work? For a while, maybe.
    Will it work? Not for any appreciable amount of time.

    > I guess I could go over the whole roof and glue every shingle, but
    > geez that sounds like a lot of work.


    It is. Doing things right the first time is a helluva lot easier.
    And easy repairs often equate to shoddy repairs.

    > A lot of them *are* glued,
    > because when I was watching the storm a big section of them, about the
    > size of a car door, was flapping as a unit. That's what made me think
    > that nailing furring strips over them might help. I think the problem
    > is that it rarely gets up to 70 degrees in the summer here, so the
    > glue doesn't melt well. And I could probably get away with just
    > putting the strips on the windward edges, because that's where all the
    > damage was.


    You're roof is doomed and was from the day it was put on. If you have
    sections of shingles flapping in the wind and there's not a hurricane
    directly on you, the problem is with the installation. My guess is
    that either you reroofed and the roofer used too short nails or
    skipped nails because they're negligent/incompetent.

    Furring strips will cause far more problems. There are better
    solutions for borderline emergency repairs. As someone else posted,
    just nail right through the shingles and forget about the furring
    strips, then use a elastomeric roof coating over the whole shebang.
    http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=elastomeric roof coating

    > One of the comedians here accidentally made a helpful comment about
    > leaking from under the furring strips.


    I'll be appearing here all week. Tell your friends.

    > If I put some gobs of tar on
    > the shingles, then put the board on top of the tar, and then nailed
    > throught the board, tar, and shingles (before the tar dries), would
    > that make it waterproof? Would using silicone sealant instead of tar
    > make any difference?
    >
    > Thanks for any help, and sorry to bother the other guys.


    You're not a bother. But asking why a roof would leak after you Rube
    Goldberg it up and punch holes all over it is rather funny. From
    where I'm sitting, you're the comedian.

    If the roofing company did screw up your roof you could and should go
    after them for a replacement - even at this late date. You need to
    determine exactly how the roof was installed, nailing pattern, size of
    nails, underlayment, etc., document it and work up how the roof
    company was negligent. Then send them the package of materials with
    photographs and explain how their errors and omissions damaged you and
    that you expect them to remedy the situation. If they're dragging
    their heels, have a lawyer draft up a strongly worded letter and send
    it to them. The objective is to pressure them into replacing the roof
    without getting the lawyers too heavily involved. If lawyers do get
    involved, well then you'll be hiring a roofing company from outside
    your area to replace the roof. It will cost much more than the
    original roofing company cost and the original company would be
    looking at possibly laying out approximately three or four times the
    amount of cash than it would take them to put on a new roof for their
    cost. It's all about risk.

    Please be aware that your amateur repairs are damaging the roof and
    will hamper any efforts to have the roof corrected at little or not
    cost.

    R

    BTW, I really am hilarious - and not just looking.
     
    RicodJour, Dec 4, 2007
    #10
  11. Guest

    On Dec 4, 2:33 pm, RicodJour <> wrote:

    OK, thanks. Please bear with me for some more dumb questions. I'm
    not trying to argue about anything, I'm just trying to understand. I
    guess I need to get a book on roofing from the library.


    > In such a high wind area you should have used shingles with a higher
    > wind rating and used an increased nailing pattern (six nails instead
    > of four per 3' shingle). Basically all information necessary is right
    > on the shingle package wrapper.



    As far as I can tell, there were no nails used to put the shingles on
    originally, just staples. The neighbors, who are apparently rich
    because they only live here in the summer, had the same local outfit
    roof their new house, and they lost a bunch of shingles in the first
    storm, too. Since they're rich, they had an outside company come in
    and put a new roof on their two-month old house, and from what I could
    see they just used staples too (driven by compressed air), but they
    haven't had any problems. Are staples and nails interchangeable?


    > The kiss of death for any roof. The nails _must_ penetrate the roof
    > sheathing.



    My nails go into the sheathing, but not all the way through. They
    seem to be holding. Why is it important that they penetrate
    completely?


    > You're not a bother. But asking why a roof would leak after you Rube
    > Goldberg it up and punch holes all over it is rather funny. From
    > where I'm sitting, you're the comedian.



    No, I'm just stupid. So let me see if I understand what you're
    saying --- The shingles should be nailed, but only where they are
    covered by the shingle above them, and the lower flaps should be glued
    down?


    > If the roofing company did screw up your roof you could and should go
    > after them for a replacement - even at this late date. You need to
    > determine exactly how the roof was installed, nailing pattern, size of
    > nails, underlayment, etc., document it and work up how the roof
    > company was negligent. Then send them the package of materials with
    > photographs and explain how their errors and omissions damaged you and
    > that you expect them to remedy the situation. If they're dragging
    > their heels, have a lawyer draft up a strongly worded letter and send
    > it to them. The objective is to pressure them into replacing the roof
    > without getting the lawyers too heavily involved. If lawyers do get
    > involved, well then you'll be hiring a roofing company from outside
    > your area to replace the roof. It will cost much more than the
    > original roofing company cost and the original company would be
    > looking at possibly laying out approximately three or four times the
    > amount of cash than it would take them to put on a new roof for their
    > cost. It's all about risk.



    The local politics here make your sensible legal suggestions
    impractical for me.
     
    , Dec 5, 2007
    #11
  12. Guest

    On Dec 4, 1:46 pm, Norminn <> wrote:
    > I'm not sure what "architectural" shingles are, but I think we have them
    > :eek:) Elk Prestige Plus, I believe. We have an unusual roof on our
    > condo, with steep mansards on each building. In addition to a poor
    > installation (improper nailing), they were a poor choice for steep roofs
    > (formerly concrete tile). After a couple of major reworks, and still
    > losing shingles, the roofer started applying roof cement under each
    > tab. Our city also changed the regulations for shingles on steep roofs,
    > requiring cement under each tab of the shingle. Then came the
    > hurricanes, in 2005?, and we had a "stuck fast" roof! Max. winds here
    > were 70 mph, and we lost a skylight but not one shingle. Many of the
    > buildings in the neighborhood lost many shingles and even concrete
    > tiles, but ours stayed on. Don't recall whether these shingles are
    > rated for Dade, but the extra adhesive seems to have made a great
    > difference.



    I guess that sounds like the way to go. Maybe if I do an hour a night
    or so I can get it done next summer.
     
    , Dec 5, 2007
    #12
  13. Guest

    On Dec 4, 7:14 pm, wrote:
    > On Dec 4, 1:46 pm, Norminn <> wrote:
    >
    > > I'm not sure what "architectural" shingles are, but I think we have them
    > > :eek:) Elk Prestige Plus, I believe. We have an unusual roof on our
    > > condo, with steep mansards on each building. In addition to a poor
    > > installation (improper nailing), they were a poor choice for steep roofs
    > > (formerly concrete tile). After a couple of major reworks, and still
    > > losing shingles, the roofer started applying roof cement under each
    > > tab. Our city also changed the regulations for shingles on steep roofs,
    > > requiring cement under each tab of the shingle. Then came the
    > > hurricanes, in 2005?, and we had a "stuck fast" roof! Max. winds here
    > > were 70 mph, and we lost a skylight but not one shingle. Many of the
    > > buildings in the neighborhood lost many shingles and even concrete
    > > tiles, but ours stayed on. Don't recall whether these shingles are
    > > rated for Dade, but the extra adhesive seems to have made a great
    > > difference.

    >
    > I guess that sounds like the way to go. Maybe if I do an hour a night
    > or so I can get it done next summer.


    Take a look at the tips from FEMA about roofs:

    http://www.fema.gov/plan/prevent/howto/how2031.shtm

    Note the section where it says if you live in a hurricane prone area
    to use 6 nails and not staples. Personally, I'd insist on that on my
    own roof anywhere, as it's far more secure. I saw the same thing
    happen to shingles at brand new condos 20 years ago during a
    northeaster. The complex where I was living had nailed shingles
    with sustained minimal damage. The new place across the street,
    where they were nailed, had very substantial damage, with whole big
    sections blown off as you describe.

    I also agree with the post that you may have a legal case against the
    company that installed them, provided the statute of limitations
    hasn't run out. The obvious negative for you is the amount of time
    that has expired. However, the fact that you had them back
    immediately over the 2 years following the work shows that something
    has been wrong all along. They are the roofing experts, are local,
    and should know that for a house at the top of a wind blown hill,
    staples should not be used.

    To prevail, you;d need statements from some experts. A certified
    home inspector would be one good one as he's independent with no axe
    to grind. A couple of reports from other roofers that said the work
    was done wrong together with estimates to correct would be good too.
    Take pictures of everything. You could sue them in small claims
    where you don't need a lawyer and the limit is usually $2K to $10K
    depending on state. You probably have a 50-50 shot at winning, but
    being able to sue at minimal cost could make it worth while.

    Good luck
     
    , Dec 5, 2007
    #13
  14. Pat Guest

    On Dec 4, 4:09 pm, wrote:
    > On Dec 3, 8:13 pm, RicodJour <> wrote:
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    > > On Dec 3, 10:27 pm, wrote:

    >
    > > > On Dec 3, 4:26 pm, RicodJour <> wrote:

    >
    > > > > On Dec 3, 6:19 pm, wrote:

    >
    > > > > > I live on the Oregon coast, and I am watching the shingles blow off of
    > > > > > my roof. This doesn't happen often, but it happens often enough that
    > > > > > I want to find a better way than just nailing them back on one at a
    > > > > > time.

    >
    > > > > > My roof has "architectural" shingles, which to me just means they
    > > > > > don't lie flat, and they make it a lot easier for the wind to get
    > > > > > under them. It occurs to me that I could greatly reduce the chance of
    > > > > > their blowing off if I nailed them down withfurringstrips every
    > > > > > couple feet or so, i.e. 8' long, very light 1x2s running vertically
    > > > > > from the peak to the gutter. I know it wouldn't look great, but the
    > > > > > biggest problem is with the part of the roof that faces the back yard,
    > > > > > so they wouldn't be visible from the street. And if I painted them
    > > > > > dark brown, they might not be visible at all unless someone was
    > > > > > looking for them.

    >
    > > > > > I realize that it would hurt the resale, but a) I have no plans to
    > > > > > move, and b) it wouldn't take much extra work to pull them up when I
    > > > > > get a new roof, which I would have to do if I sold the house anyway.

    >
    > > > > > So, comments? Other than the looks, is there any structural or
    > > > > > practical reason why they wouldn't work?

    >
    > > > > It would be similar to using a collander as a hat in a rain storm.
    > > > > It'll leak like a sieve, and it'll look like crap.

    >
    > > > > Buy some roof cement in caulking tubes, gently pry up and separate the
    > > > > shingles (sounds like they're not sealed together), and squirt a dab
    > > > > of roof cement under the shingles every 4" to 6". That'll bond one
    > > > > layer to the next and will take care of the blow off problem. Only
    > > > > problem is that it is work that is best done in warmer weather.

    >
    > > > Why would it leak? Maybe I didn't make it clear that the strips are
    > > > going over the shingles just to hold them down; I'm not expecting the
    > > > strips to provide any rain protection. I won't need many nails per
    > > > strip, and I'll put tar over the nails.

    >
    > > I've changed my mind. You've convinced me that you're right. Zero
    > > chance it'll leak. Nail away!

    >
    > > BTW, we'll be electing a new alt.home.repair moderator and I feel you
    > > should nominate yourself. You've got mad construction skillz.

    >
    > > R

    >
    > I wasn't trying to argue with anyone, I was just asking for
    > information. Sorry to have bothered you.- Hide quoted text -
    >
    > - Show quoted text -


    Rico is right (except about the colendar as a hat thing -- I think it
    would look okay). The purpose of roofs being made the way there are
    is that it is almost impossible to plug a hole and keep it plugged.
    If it worked, then roofers would just nail through the shingles. No
    amount of tar is going to seal the holes -- not all of them all of the
    time.

    You might want to look at alternative roofing systems like metal roofs
    or the imitation slate (that is quite heavy). You could also rip off
    the roof and go with a rolled roofing (like that is used on semi-flat
    roofs that goes down with virtually no nails but lots and lots of tar
    -- and you basically glue it to your roof.
     
    Pat, Dec 5, 2007
    #14
  15. <> wrote in message
    > As far as I can tell, there were no nails used to put the shingles on
    > originally, just staples. The neighbors, who are apparently rich
    > because they only live here in the summer, had the same local outfit
    > roof their new house, and they lost a bunch of shingles in the first
    > storm, too. Since they're rich, they had an outside company come in
    > and put a new roof on their two-month old house, and from what I could
    > see they just used staples too (driven by compressed air), but they
    > haven't had any problems. Are staples and nails interchangeable?


    Staples don't hold as well as nails int he wind. Some local codes specify
    no staples, nails only. Staples are cheaper/faster, but do not hold as
    well.



    >
    >
    > My nails go into the sheathing, but not all the way through. They
    > seem to be holding. Why is it important that they penetrate
    > completely?


    Maximum holding. They don't have to go far past though.


    >
    > No, I'm just stupid. So let me see if I understand what you're
    > saying --- The shingles should be nailed, but only where they are
    > covered by the shingle above them, and the lower flaps should be glued
    > down?


    Yes, the shingles have an adhesive that is heat activated in the sun.
     
    Edwin Pawlowski, Dec 5, 2007
    #15
  16. On Dec 3, 6:19 pm, wrote:
    > I live on the Oregon coast, and I am watching the shingles blow off of
    > my roof. This doesn't happen often, but it happens often enough that
    > I want to find a better way than just nailing them back on one at a
    > time.
    >
    > My roof has "architectural" shingles, which to me just means they
    > don't lie flat, and they make it a lot easier for the wind to get
    > under them. It occurs to me that I could greatly reduce the chance of
    > their blowing off if I nailed them down with furring strips every
    > couple feet or so, i.e. 8' long, very light 1x2s running vertically
    > from the peak to the gutter. I know it wouldn't look great, but the
    > biggest problem is with the part of the roof that faces the back yard,
    > so they wouldn't be visible from the street. And if I painted them
    > dark brown, they might not be visible at all unless someone was
    > looking for them.
    >
    > I realize that it would hurt the resale, but a) I have no plans to
    > move, and b) it wouldn't take much extra work to pull them up when I
    > get a new roof, which I would have to do if I sold the house anyway.
    >
    > So, comments? Other than the looks, is there any structural or
    > practical reason why they wouldn't work?


    Actually your proposed solution is not an unworkable idea...it is an
    affront to us roofers everywhere...but if you cannot really see it,
    and you know that you are trading all future roof life for a short (2
    years max) answer, it will work.

    You will be stripping off everything when this answer wears out, but
    if you have dimensional shingles, you would have been doing that
    anyway...do you know if you have access to MALARKY SHINGLES? I would
    advise you to check into thier shingle line, or any other SBS shingle
    ( as oppossed to a fiberglass based shingle)....The SBS shingle cann
    handle the extreme weather conditions you folks have out there....high
    winds, strong winters, violent hail storms. They look great and LAST!
    Good Luck!
     
    Roof Time Cincinnati, Dec 5, 2007
    #16
  17. Guest

    On Dec 4, 7:58 pm, "Pat" <> wrote:
    >
    > You may have several issues here.
    > First your roofing may not be rated for the winds in your location.
    > Second your roof may be incorrectly installed.
    > Third your shingles have been damaged flapping in the wind.
    >
    > The fix is to remove and replace using the correct material for your
    > conditions and following the manufacturer instructions.
    >
    > I can't see your roof. I don't know how much risk of water damage you are
    > willing to accept. You can make temporary repairs. How long those repairs
    > will last is unknown. Water can get under your shingles and damage your
    > plywood sheathing and wood supports without ever appearing inside your home.
    > Waiting to replace your roof greatly increases the chance of increased
    > damage and increased costs. You may already have damage from previous
    > repairs.
    >
    > Putting a new roof on probably would not be much more work then making
    > temporary repairs.
    >
    > Check out this pagehttp://www.owenscorning.com/around/roofing/shingles/index.asp
    > See how each product has a different wind resistance. Some are rated for as
    > high as 130 mph.
    > Read the installation instructions herehttp://www.owenscorning.com/around/roofing/installationinstructions.asp
    > See how the installation varies with wind and roof steepness.



    Thanks for the link. I used their finder, and they don't have a
    contractor within 50 miles of me, which is what I expected. On the
    other hand, I didn't know they offered lifetime warranties. If I knew
    I only had to do it one time, I guess I would go ahead and get a pro
    from Dover to put on the super duper shingles when I get my pension
    payment. So that means my repairs only have to last a couple of
    years :).
     
    , Dec 5, 2007
    #17
  18. Guest

    On Dec 4, 4:53 pm, wrote:
    >
    > Take a look at the tips from FEMA about roofs:
    >
    > http://www.fema.gov/plan/prevent/howto/how2031.shtm


    Thanks, but can what they said about the price be right?

    "A roofing contractor will charge you about $100 to $150 per square
    foot of roof area to remove and replace shingles and underlayment."

    My roof is at least 60x30, not even counting the garage. That's
    1800 sq ft, so they are saying it would cost around $200K for a new
    roof??? Are they figuring in the cost of driving ice all over the
    country or something?
     
    , Dec 5, 2007
    #18
  19. Guest

    On Dec 4, 7:41 pm, Roof Time Cincinnati <> wrote:
    > On Dec 3, 6:19 pm, wrote:
    >
    >
    >
    > > I live on the Oregon coast, and I am watching the shingles blow off of
    > > my roof. This doesn't happen often, but it happens often enough that
    > > I want to find a better way than just nailing them back on one at a
    > > time.

    >
    > > My roof has "architectural" shingles, which to me just means they
    > > don't lie flat, and they make it a lot easier for the wind to get
    > > under them. It occurs to me that I could greatly reduce the chance of
    > > their blowing off if I nailed them down with furring strips every
    > > couple feet or so, i.e. 8' long, very light 1x2s running vertically
    > > from the peak to the gutter. I know it wouldn't look great, but the
    > > biggest problem is with the part of the roof that faces the back yard,
    > > so they wouldn't be visible from the street. And if I painted them
    > > dark brown, they might not be visible at all unless someone was
    > > looking for them.

    >
    > > I realize that it would hurt the resale, but a) I have no plans to
    > > move, and b) it wouldn't take much extra work to pull them up when I
    > > get a new roof, which I would have to do if I sold the house anyway.

    >
    > > So, comments? Other than the looks, is there any structural or
    > > practical reason why they wouldn't work?

    >
    > Actually your proposed solution is not an unworkable idea...it is an
    > affront to us roofers everywhere...but if you cannot really see it,
    > and you know that you are trading all future roof life for a short (2
    > years max) answer, it will work.
    >
    > You will be stripping off everything when this answer wears out, but
    > if you have dimensional shingles, you would have been doing that
    > anyway...do you know if you have access to MALARKY SHINGLES? I would
    > advise you to check into thier shingle line, or any other SBS shingle
    > ( as oppossed to a fiberglass based shingle)....The SBS shingle cann
    > handle the extreme weather conditions you folks have out there....high
    > winds, strong winters, violent hail storms. They look great and LAST!
    > Good Luck!


    Thanks, I'll look into it. Malarky is out of Portland, so I assume
    they would be available here.
     
    , Dec 5, 2007
    #19
  20. On Dec 5, 2:59 am, wrote:
    > On Dec 4, 4:53 pm, wrote:
    >
    >
    >
    > > Take a look at the tips from FEMA about roofs:

    >
    > >http://www.fema.gov/plan/prevent/howto/how2031.shtm

    >
    > Thanks, but can what they said about the price be right?
    >
    > "A roofing contractor will charge you about $100 to $150 per square
    > foot of roof area to remove and replace shingles and underlayment."
    >
    > My roof is at least 60x30, not even counting the garage. That's
    > 1800 sq ft, so they are saying it would cost around $200K for a new
    > roof??? Are they figuring in the cost of driving ice all over the
    > country or something?


    LOL...I see why you would freak..but NO, that is not quite right.....a
    'square" denotes a 10' x 10' area...so a 60x30 is 1800 sq FEET but
    only 18 squares! But you must also take into account the RISE or pitch
    of the roof.....

    Flat Roofs
    If your roof is flat or has no more than a 3 in12 pitch, (rises 3"
    every 12") you can calculate its total square footage by simply
    multiplying the length by the width. So you would have 1800 squres off
    your measurement.

    Steeper Roofs
    Measure your house at ground level, then add in the roof's overhang
    for greater accuracy. Example, if the roof overhang is 12 inches,
    you'll add 2 feet to the overall length and 2 feet to the overall
    width of the house. This nominal square footage amount is then
    multiplied by a factor associated with the roof's pitch. Multiply by:
    4 in 12 1.06
    5 in 12 1.08
    6 in 12 1.12
    7 in 12 1.16
    8 in 12 1.20
    9 in 12 1.25
    10 in 12 1.30
    11 in 12 1.36
    12 in 12 1.42

    So your home will be no less than 18 squares but no more than 21
    sqares. Then you need to account for chimney flashings, metal work,
    ice guard, venting upgrades, dump fees, and shingle upgrades...the 150
    - 200 square price, generally does not factor in these associated
    roofing costs.

    If you want to email me over a picture of your house, I could give you
    some better ideas of squares needed, and associated upgrade
    costs...... not specific to your area..but it might give you a rough
    idea.....Good Luck!
     
    Roof Time Cincinnati, Dec 5, 2007
    #20
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