Fire Escape Rusting

Discussion in 'UK DIY' started by abd08, May 9, 2006.

  1. abd08

    abd08 Guest

    Hi All,

    We had our fire escape newly installed about a year ago, and it is
    already starting to rust in places. This doesn't seem normal to me, and
    I don't think the company has done the work properly.

    What do you think I need to check physically on the fire escape, such
    that I can basically tell the guy "you should have done X,Y,Z, this
    isn't good enough etc etc", and so he doesn't try and fob me off with
    "oh, didn't you know you have to repaint these every year" or similar

    Cheers!!
    Raj
     
    abd08, May 9, 2006
    #1
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  2. abd08 wrote:
    > Hi All,
    >
    > We had our fire escape newly installed about a year ago, and it is
    > already starting to rust in places. This doesn't seem normal to me,
    > and I don't think the company has done the work properly.
    >
    > What do you think I need to check physically on the fire escape, such
    > that I can basically tell the guy "you should have done X,Y,Z, this
    > isn't good enough etc etc", and so he doesn't try and fob me off with
    > "oh, didn't you know you have to repaint these every year" or similar
    >
    > Cheers!!
    > Raj


    Outside iron does have to be painted every year...take a look at the forth
    bridge. ;-)

    --
    Sir Benjamin Middlethwaite
     
    The3rd Earl Of Derby, May 9, 2006
    #2
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  3. abd08

    Guest

    Is it galvanised or painted?

    Is it bolted together or welded?

    Can you tell exactly where the rust originates? The bolts/welds, on
    treads on ground or wall attachment points?

    Was it supplied fully finished or primer only?
     
    , May 9, 2006
    #3
  4. abd08 wrote:
    > Hi All,
    >
    > We had our fire escape newly installed about a year ago, and it is
    > already starting to rust in places. This doesn't seem normal to me, and
    > I don't think the company has done the work properly.
    >


    It may well be normal.

    > What do you think I need to check physically on the fire escape, such
    > that I can basically tell the guy "you should have done X,Y,Z, this
    > isn't good enough etc etc", and so he doesn't try and fob me off with
    > "oh, didn't you know you have to repaint these every year" or similar
    >


    I think you do have to repaint every year.

    You might want to go over it and remove all old paint and use a chromate
    type primer on it though. It may be that it wasnt given a decent set of
    primer in the first place.

    > Cheers!!
    > Raj
    >
     
    The Natural Philosopher, May 9, 2006
    #4
  5. abd08

    Guest

    , May 9, 2006
    #5
  6. abd08

    Guest

    The3rd Earl Of Derby wrote:
    > abd08 wrote:
    > > Hi All,
    > >
    > > We had our fire escape newly installed about a year ago, and it is
    > > already starting to rust in places. This doesn't seem normal to me,
    > > and I don't think the company has done the work properly.
    > >
    > > What do you think I need to check physically on the fire escape, such
    > > that I can basically tell the guy "you should have done X,Y,Z, this
    > > isn't good enough etc etc", and so he doesn't try and fob me off with
    > > "oh, didn't you know you have to repaint these every year" or similar
    > >
    > > Cheers!!
    > > Raj

    >
    > Outside iron does have to be painted every year...take a look at the forth
    > bridge. ;-)


    Urban Myth

    MBQ
     
    , May 9, 2006
    #6
  7. wrote:
    > The3rd Earl Of Derby wrote:
    >> abd08 wrote:
    >>> Hi All,
    >>>
    >>> We had our fire escape newly installed about a year ago, and it is
    >>> already starting to rust in places. This doesn't seem normal to me,
    >>> and I don't think the company has done the work properly.
    >>>
    >>> What do you think I need to check physically on the fire escape,
    >>> such that I can basically tell the guy "you should have done X,Y,Z,
    >>> this isn't good enough etc etc", and so he doesn't try and fob me
    >>> off with "oh, didn't you know you have to repaint these every year"
    >>> or similar
    >>>
    >>> Cheers!!
    >>> Raj

    >>
    >> Outside iron does have to be painted every year...take a look at the
    >> forth bridge. ;-)

    >
    > Urban Myth
    >
    > MBQ


    Do ya reckon?

    Paint will blister (more so on iron) from the suns heat which will then be
    enough for rain(water)to penetrate below the surface and find its way onto
    the steel,this will then start lifting the paint more heavily as time
    progresses.

    Hence why maintenance of the outside of a property has to be maintained
    where and when its needed every year to keep it in good condition.

    I'll stick with my opinion,thanks

    --
    Sir Benjamin Middlethwaite
     
    The3rd Earl Of Derby, May 9, 2006
    #7
  8. abd08

    Bookworm Guest

    The Natural Philosopher wrote:
    >


    >
    > I think you do have to repaint every year.
    >
    >
    >

    Wrong! Please read the posting by Brian Sharrock. He is quite right. I
    once worked for the company that supplies that system and, providing
    prep is meticulas, 20 years in a salt laden atmosphere is quite normal.

    Thats why North Sea Oil Rigs aren't painted with Dulux.
     
    Bookworm, May 9, 2006
    #8
  9. Pet @ www.gymratz.co.uk ;¬) wrote:
    > Bookworm wrote:
    >
    >> Thats why North Sea Oil Rigs aren't painted with Dulux.

    >
    > On a thread hijack......
    >
    > what would you (or anyone else) recommend for the best stuff to paint
    > a non-galvanised, rusting, outside steel balcony with then Bookworm. ?
    >
    > Ours is suffering badly where the previous owners used to bodge it up
    > with normal gloss paint once in a while.
    >
    > and... :¬) what would be the best method of preperation to halt
    > existing rust?
    >


    For painting iron/steel exterior items I've always used "Hammerite" paint.
    As for halting rust...hmmm! thats a case of how bad its got a hold? for
    surface rust I used a bottle of stuff from a car accesory shop, wasn't
    cheap and came in a quarter of a pint plastic bottle,for the life of me I
    cant remember the name but it contained a chemical that nuetralised the
    rust with a protective finish for painting over.

    --
    Sir Benjamin Middlethwaite
     
    The3rd Earl Of Derby, May 9, 2006
    #9
  10. abd08

    Guy King Guest

    The message <FE%7g.66655$>
    from "The3rd Earl Of Derby" <> contains these words:

    > Outside iron does have to be painted every year...take a look at the forth
    > bridge. ;-)


    Or galvanised. Might be well worth it!

    --
    Skipweasel
    Pay no attention to that man behind the curtain.
     
    Guy King, May 9, 2006
    #10
  11. abd08

    Guy King Guest

    The message <Et48g.66816$>
    from "Pet_@_www.gymratz.co.uk_;¬)" <> contains these
    words:

    > what would you (or anyone else) recommend for the best stuff to paint a
    > non-galvanised, rusting, outside steel balcony with then Bookworm. ?


    I'd be tempted to take it off and get it galvanised.

    --
    Skipweasel
    Pay no attention to that man behind the curtain.
     
    Guy King, May 9, 2006
    #11
  12. abd08

    Andy Dingley Guest

    On Tue, 09 May 2006 13:15:16 +0100, The Natural Philosopher <>
    wrote:

    >You might want to go over it and remove all old paint and use a chromate
    >type primer on it though.


    Where are you going to even _find_ a chromate primer these days ? Apart
    from being horribly toxic, they're also far from the best choice for
    steel.

    A fire escape ought to have been galvanised to begin with. If it wasn't,
    then it needs a good coat of zinc-based primer (Davids 182, or some
    others) onto clean bare metal.
     
    Andy Dingley, May 9, 2006
    #12
  13. Pet @ www.gymratz.co.uk ;¬) wrote:
    > Bookworm wrote:
    >
    >> Thats why North Sea Oil Rigs aren't painted with Dulux.

    >
    > On a thread hijack......
    >
    > what would you (or anyone else) recommend for the best stuff to paint a
    > non-galvanised, rusting, outside steel balcony with then Bookworm. ?
    >
    > Ours is suffering badly where the previous owners used to bodge it up
    > with normal gloss paint once in a while.
    >
    > and... :¬) what would be the best method of preperation to halt
    > existing rust?
    >
    > I am thinking a compressed air "needle gun" for initial attack of paint
    > & rust flakes.
    >
    > 'tis a job for this summer.
    > :¬(
    >

    Chromate primer, or zinc primer.

    Ive had best success with stuff like 'jenolite' which IIRC turns iron
    oxide into iron chromate - a tougher proposition by half..then maybe a
    zinc loaded primer to pseudo galvanize.

    Ideally you would then use something like a tow pack epoxy paint al la
    marine (yacht) paint..

    Cleaning is simply down to getting everything loose off. - wire
    brush,sandblasting, Nitromors etc.
     
    The Natural Philosopher, May 10, 2006
    #13
  14. Andy Dingley wrote:
    > On Tue, 09 May 2006 13:15:16 +0100, The Natural Philosopher <>
    > wrote:
    >
    >> You might want to go over it and remove all old paint and use a chromate
    >> type primer on it though.

    >
    > Where are you going to even _find_ a chromate primer these days ? Apart
    > from being horribly toxic, they're also far from the best choice for
    > steel.
    >

    I was thinking of anti-rust treatments like Jenolite

    > A fire escape ought to have been galvanised to begin with. If it wasn't,
    > then it needs a good coat of zinc-based primer (Davids 182, or some
    > others) onto clean bare metal.


    Not so good if its already corroded.

    Agreed galvanisation is the best starting point, but f its been drilled
    or welded or assembles with non galvanised bolts, or non steel ones...

    To those who think that Hammerite works, think again. Utter rubbish the
    one time I tried it.
     
    The Natural Philosopher, May 10, 2006
    #14
  15. abd08

    Bookworm Guest

    Chris Bacon wrote:
    > Pet @ wrote:
    > > On a thread hijack......
    > >

    >
    >
    > Wire cup brush on 9" angle grinder. Use a knotted cup brush to get rid
    > of heavy deposits.



    Just polishes the rust. Gritblast to SA2.5 is only way to remove rust.
     
    Bookworm, May 10, 2006
    #15
  16. Chris Bacon wrote:
    > The Natural Philosopher wrote:
    >> Ive had best success with stuff like 'jenolite' which IIRC turns iron
    >> oxide into iron chromate

    >
    > Iron phosphate, isn't it?

    Ah.. you may well be right, in which case I have been talking bollocks..
     
    The Natural Philosopher, May 10, 2006
    #16
  17. abd08

    Andy Dingley Guest

    On 10 May 2006 10:19:36 +0200, Chris Bacon <> wrote:

    >The Natural Philosopher wrote:
    >> Ive had best success with stuff like 'jenolite' which IIRC turns iron
    >> oxide into iron chromate

    >
    >Iron phosphate, isn't it?


    Phosphides and tannates. At least you get tannates if you use the good
    stuff (usually white) rather than Jenolite or plain phosphoric acid.

    Not bad as a preparation of existing rust you can't remove, but it has
    limited resistance to rusting in the future. In particular it doesn't
    have the electrolytic protection that zinc coating (plate or paint)
    offers.

    Chromates are useful for aluminium (the yellow-green stuff) but they're
    horribly toxic.
     
    Andy Dingley, May 10, 2006
    #17
  18. abd08

    Andy Dingley Guest

    On 10 May 2006 00:50:58 -0700, "Bookworm" <> wrote:

    >> Wire cup brush on 9" angle grinder. Use a knotted cup brush to get rid
    >> of heavy deposits.


    >Just polishes the rust. Gritblast to SA2.5 is only way to remove rust.


    A wire brush on an angle grinder is a lot more effective than a slower
    one on a drill. But use a good quality knotted brush, a thick apron and
    a faceshield (not just goggles) or you get peppered.

    Grit blasting is certainly the best, and the only practical way to get
    into the corners - but a portable rig is messy and far from cheap to
    hire. Even a larger "hobby" compressor would struggle with this sort of
    work too.
     
    Andy Dingley, May 10, 2006
    #18
  19. Andy Dingley wrote:
    > On 10 May 2006 10:19:36 +0200, Chris Bacon <> wrote:
    >
    >> The Natural Philosopher wrote:
    >>> Ive had best success with stuff like 'jenolite' which IIRC turns iron
    >>> oxide into iron chromate

    >> Iron phosphate, isn't it?

    >
    > Phosphides and tannates. At least you get tannates if you use the good
    > stuff (usually white) rather than Jenolite or plain phosphoric acid.
    >
    > Not bad as a preparation of existing rust you can't remove, but it has
    > limited resistance to rusting in the future. In particular it doesn't
    > have the electrolytic protection that zinc coating (plate or paint)
    > offers.
    >
    > Chromates are useful for aluminium (the yellow-green stuff) but they're
    > horribly toxic.


    I've used jenolite FIRST to stabilise the rust, then a zinc primer.
     
    The Natural Philosopher, May 10, 2006
    #19
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