Electrical Supply to 7 Flats & Common Parts

Discussion in 'Misc DIY' started by Richard Faulkner, Jul 11, 2005.

  1. I probably dont want to know the answer to this but, having only just
    discovered it, I guess I need to know:

    Big Victorian House converted many years ago into 7 flats. 7 electric
    meters, common parts supplied from landlords meter.

    I bought this in 2000, and managed to get rid of the final dregs of
    humanity in April. 6 of the flats have now been refurbished, I live in
    one of the flats, and have continued the tradition of having the common
    parts fed from my meter.

    However, on the basis that I wont live here forever, I want to get an
    extra meter/supply for the common parts.

    Anyway - in the meter cupboard, there is a very thick cable, from
    outside, which feeds a panel with 3 of the big black electricity board
    fuses. Tails from these 3 fuses then lead to some splitters, (???), and
    tails from these splitters lead to a further 7 big black electricity
    board fuses - these then feed the meters of the 7 flats.

    Each flat now has Gas C/H for heating and hot water, electric oven, and
    the usual lights and sockets. 5 x 1 bed flats, 1 x 2 bed flat, 1 x
    studio flat.

    Whilst the electricity board have always been aware that there are 7
    flats, and they presumably created the layout initially, I am a bit
    concerned that there should not be 7 flats fed from the 3 big fuses, and
    that asking for another meter/supply may be opening a can of worms.

    Any thoughts before I open the can <g>

    Many Thanks

    --
    Richard Faulkner
     
    Richard Faulkner, Jul 11, 2005
    #1
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  2. Richard Faulkner

    BigWallop Guest

    "Richard Faulkner" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > I probably dont want to know the answer to this but, having only just
    > discovered it, I guess I need to know:
    >
    > Big Victorian House converted many years ago into 7 flats. 7 electric
    > meters, common parts supplied from landlords meter.
    >
    > I bought this in 2000, and managed to get rid of the final dregs of
    > humanity in April. 6 of the flats have now been refurbished, I live in
    > one of the flats, and have continued the tradition of having the common
    > parts fed from my meter.
    >
    > However, on the basis that I wont live here forever, I want to get an
    > extra meter/supply for the common parts.
    >
    > Anyway - in the meter cupboard, there is a very thick cable, from
    > outside, which feeds a panel with 3 of the big black electricity board
    > fuses. Tails from these 3 fuses then lead to some splitters, (???), and
    > tails from these splitters lead to a further 7 big black electricity
    > board fuses - these then feed the meters of the 7 flats.
    >
    > Each flat now has Gas C/H for heating and hot water, electric oven, and
    > the usual lights and sockets. 5 x 1 bed flats, 1 x 2 bed flat, 1 x
    > studio flat.
    >
    > Whilst the electricity board have always been aware that there are 7
    > flats, and they presumably created the layout initially, I am a bit
    > concerned that there should not be 7 flats fed from the 3 big fuses, and
    > that asking for another meter/supply may be opening a can of worms.
    >
    > Any thoughts before I open the can <g>
    >
    > Many Thanks
    >
    > Richard Faulkner
    >

    The layout sounds like it has a simple three phase supply, and that the
    three phases have been distributed sort of evenly throughout the whole of
    the flats.

    If you wish to rent the flat that you currently occupy, then you could have
    the landlord supply separated to a meter in the common hallway that supplies
    only the stair lighting and other common parts of the building. This is a
    very common layout for this type of property.

    It does mean that the current supply to your flat will need to have the
    common areas removed and transferred to the new meter in the hallway of
    course.
     
    BigWallop, Jul 11, 2005
    #2
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  3. Richard Faulkner

    Owain Guest

    Richard Faulkner wrote:
    > Big Victorian House converted many years ago into 7 flats. 7 electric
    > meters, common parts supplied from landlords meter.
    > Whilst the electricity board have always been aware that there are 7
    > flats, and they presumably created the layout initially, I am a bit
    > concerned that there should not be 7 flats fed from the 3 big fuses, and
    > that asking for another meter/supply may be opening a can of worms.


    There's considerable diversity applied across multiple dwellings, and
    it's surprising what can be got away with. I think there are probably
    closes in Scotland with a main supply of about 10A per flat :)

    I presume the landlord's supply is only for a few lights, entry system,
    tv distribution, zoned fire alarm system (?) and the like. If this is
    explained to the electricity co then there should be no question of
    needing to upgrade the main feeder.

    ScottishPower have a facility whereby landlord's meters of this type are
    automatically divided and charged across tenant's electricity bills, so
    you wouldn't need to read the meter and bill the tenants or absorb the
    cost yourself. I don't know if other providers have the same facility or
    what happens if different tenants have different leccy providers.

    Owain
     
    Owain, Jul 11, 2005
    #3
  4. Richard Faulkner

    Hugh Guest

    "Richard Faulkner" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    >I probably dont want to know the answer to this but, having only just
    >discovered it, I guess I need to know:
    >
    > Big Victorian House converted many years ago into 7 flats. 7 electric
    > meters, common parts supplied from landlords meter.
    >
    > I bought this in 2000, and managed to get rid of the final dregs of
    > humanity in April. 6 of the flats have now been refurbished, I live in one
    > of the flats, and have continued the tradition of having the common parts
    > fed from my meter.
    >
    > However, on the basis that I wont live here forever, I want to get an
    > extra meter/supply for the common parts.
    >
    > Anyway - in the meter cupboard, there is a very thick cable, from outside,
    > which feeds a panel with 3 of the big black electricity board fuses. Tails
    > from these 3 fuses then lead to some splitters, (???), and tails from
    > these splitters lead to a further 7 big black electricity board fuses -
    > these then feed the meters of the 7 flats.
    >
    > Each flat now has Gas C/H for heating and hot water, electric oven, and
    > the usual lights and sockets. 5 x 1 bed flats, 1 x 2 bed flat, 1 x studio
    > flat.
    >
    > Whilst the electricity board have always been aware that there are 7
    > flats, and they presumably created the layout initially, I am a bit
    > concerned that there should not be 7 flats fed from the 3 big fuses, and
    > that asking for another meter/supply may be opening a can of worms.
    >
    > Any thoughts before I open the can <g>
    >
    > Many Thanks
    >
    > --
    > Richard Faulkner


    I'm sure you are aware, being a landlord, that you require each of the
    dwellings to be inspected by a suitably qualified electrician and the
    appropriate certificate issued. At this same time you could enquire of the
    electrician whether the current (excuse pun!) layout is satisfactory - he
    should be able to advise.
    You can't skimp on these things tho' - you have a duty of care to your
    tenants - their lives are in your hands to a certain extent - if the wiring
    is unsafe it has to be updated.
    Got your annual Landlord's Charter gas certs.for each flat yet. Illegal not
    to when rented out.

    I would be equally concerned about the imminent Housing Act 2004 regulations
    coming in this autumn - this is going to affect many landlords and tenants
    especially in converted flats, and properties of 3 floors or more. The cost
    of works ordered by local councils will be staggering, the penalties for not
    complying equally costly.

    BTW, 'final dregs of humanity' ? - a lot of landlords fit that
    description - and presumably you've enriched yourself by their presence in
    one way or another.

    Hugh
     
    Hugh, Jul 11, 2005
    #4
  5. Richard Faulkner

    Hugh Guest

    "Lobster" <> wrote in message
    news:h9sAe.29289$...
    > Hugh wrote:
    >> I'm sure you are aware, being a landlord, that you require each of the
    >> dwellings to be inspected by a suitably qualified electrician and the
    >> appropriate certificate issued.

    >
    > No you don't.
    >
    >> You can't skimp on these things tho' - you have a duty of care to your
    >> tenants - their lives are in your hands to a certain extent - if the
    >> wiring is unsafe it has to be updated.

    >
    > Agree absolutely.
    >
    > David


    David,
    Thanks for pointing that out - it's true that it isn't part of existing
    legislation other than it must be safe. I have all my installations so
    certificated, the consequences of not doing so, could be costly, to say the
    least, and result in a prison sentence.
    With hindsight I should have said 'should require'. I bashed-off my little
    piece before dashing off to load up the car for a trip to the tip - but I
    stand by the general jist of what I said.
    cheers,
    Hugh
     
    Hugh, Jul 11, 2005
    #5
  6. Richard Faulkner

    Chip Guest

    On Mon, 11 Jul 2005 02:11:00 +0100,it is alleged that Richard Faulkner
    <> spake thusly in uk.d-i-y:

    [snip]

    >Whilst the electricity board have always been aware that there are 7
    >flats, and they presumably created the layout initially, I am a bit
    >concerned that there should not be 7 flats fed from the 3 big fuses, and
    >that asking for another meter/supply may be opening a can of worms.


    As others have mentioned, this is quite normal in multi-occupancy
    dwellings. As for 'can of worms', as others have mentioned, diversity
    calculations allow this with no problems, there's also the possibility
    the 3ph mainfuses might be 200A (it may be labelled on the carriers).

    Also by simple mathematics, currently at least *one* of the phases has
    3 flats on it, while the other phases have 2, and can thus handle an
    extra each.

    There should be no problem going up to 9 (with 3 on each phase) before
    they start having to rethink things. And this will all be done by the
    electricity supplier (being before/including the meters) so I don't
    suspect the can will contain worms.

    I could be wrong, but that's how it appears to me.

    --
    "I think computer viruses should count as life. I think it says something
    about human nature that the only form of life we have created so far is
    purely destructive. We've created life in our own image." - Stephen Hawking
     
    Chip, Jul 11, 2005
    #6
  7. Richard Faulkner

    Ed Sirett Guest

    On Mon, 11 Jul 2005 02:11:00 +0100, Richard Faulkner wrote:

    > I probably dont want to know the answer to this but, having only just
    > discovered it, I guess I need to know:
    >
    > Big Victorian House converted many years ago into 7 flats. 7 electric
    > meters, common parts supplied from landlords meter.
    >
    > I bought this in 2000, and managed to get rid of the final dregs of
    > humanity in April. 6 of the flats have now been refurbished, I live in
    > one of the flats, and have continued the tradition of having the common
    > parts fed from my meter.
    >
    > However, on the basis that I wont live here forever, I want to get an
    > extra meter/supply for the common parts.
    >
    > Anyway - in the meter cupboard, there is a very thick cable, from
    > outside, which feeds a panel with 3 of the big black electricity board
    > fuses. Tails from these 3 fuses then lead to some splitters, (???), and
    > tails from these splitters lead to a further 7 big black electricity
    > board fuses - these then feed the meters of the 7 flats.
    >
    > Each flat now has Gas C/H for heating and hot water, electric oven, and
    > the usual lights and sockets. 5 x 1 bed flats, 1 x 2 bed flat, 1 x
    > studio flat.
    >
    > Whilst the electricity board have always been aware that there are 7
    > flats, and they presumably created the layout initially, I am a bit
    > concerned that there should not be 7 flats fed from the 3 big fuses, and
    > that asking for another meter/supply may be opening a can of worms.
    >
    > Any thoughts before I open the can <g>
    >

    This does not sound to bad to me. I guess you will be in for the
    'standard' new installation charge. The common parts need to be fed from a
    new meter off one of the 'splitters' (probably a henley block) which is
    currently only doing two meters. Since the original installation was sized
    for electric heating albeit a while back there should be no problem like
    needing to upgrade all the supply.

    My guess is that 60A per flat from 100A on 3 should be adequate for a
    small block of smallish flats with GCH.

    --
    Ed Sirett - Property maintainer and registered gas fitter.
    The FAQ for uk.diy is at http://www.diyfaq.org.uk
    Gas fitting FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/GasFitting.html
    Sealed CH FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/SealedCH.html
     
    Ed Sirett, Jul 11, 2005
    #7
  8. In message <42d28119$0$13696$>, Christian
    McArdle <> writes
    >> Anyway - in the meter cupboard, there is a very thick cable, from
    >> outside, which feeds a panel with 3 of the big black electricity board
    >> fuses. Tails from these 3 fuses then lead to some splitters, (???), and
    >> tails from these splitters lead to a further 7 big black electricity
    >> board fuses - these then feed the meters of the 7 flats.

    >
    >It doesn't sound too bad if the big (i.e. 3) fuses are at least 100A.
    >


    They say 100A on them, as do the other 7 which they feed. And all are
    Gas central heating and electric ovens - they have washer/dryers and
    dishwashers aswell.

    >If there's no electric heating, then in the worst case, you have 100A shared
    >between 3 flats. That's not the same as 33A per flat, as it is extremely
    >unlikely that all flats will draw maximum at all times. Also, short term
    >overloads are a non-issue.
    >


    Are there any regulations which say that this is OK, or are you just
    saying it's OK because it is <g>

    >In Europe, it is common for flat supplies to be limited to a low value, like
    >25A. I don't know the diversity calculations applicable here, but you could
    >use a lot more than that per flat with impunity.
    >
    >Christian.
    >
    >


    --
    Richard Faulkner
     
    Richard Faulkner, Jul 12, 2005
    #8
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