Best workshop lighting?

Discussion in 'Misc DIY' started by dom@gglz.com, Apr 15, 2006.

  1. Guest

    Yet again I find myself with a headache today after working late into
    the evening in indequate light - time I sorted the problem.

    What's the best solution to general overhead lighting (up to 6m
    ceilings) for detailed work? And for closer illumination?

    Assume I'm willing to spend a bit and go to specialist suppliers rather
    then just what's available in the diy sheds.
     
    , Apr 15, 2006
    #1
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  2. Guest

    wrote:
    > Yet again I find myself with a headache today after working late into
    > the evening in indequate light - time I sorted the problem.
    >
    > What's the best solution to general overhead lighting (up to 6m
    > ceilings) for detailed work? And for closer illumination?
    >
    > Assume I'm willing to spend a bit and go to specialist suppliers rather
    > then just what's available in the diy sheds.


    Linear fluorescent. 2nd chioce, lots of CFLs. try to ensure access for
    changing bulbs tho.

    NT
     
    , Apr 15, 2006
    #2
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  3. wrote:
    > Yet again I find myself with a headache today after working late into
    > the evening in indequate light - time I sorted the problem.
    >
    > What's the best solution to general overhead lighting (up to 6m
    > ceilings) for detailed work? And for closer illumination?
    >
    > Assume I'm willing to spend a bit and go to specialist suppliers
    > rather then just what's available in the diy sheds.


    Another clear post lacking information ie what are you working on/with?

    You know,a watchmaker would use an illuminated magnifier
    A dentist would use a close up fresnalled halogen.

    --
    Sir Benjamin Middlethwaite
     
    The3rd Earl Of Derby, Apr 15, 2006
    #3
  4. Guest

    Smart arsed answer would be DIY!

    General joinery.
     
    , Apr 15, 2006
    #4
  5. The3rd Earl Of Derby, Apr 15, 2006
    #5
  6. Donwill Guest

    <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > Yet again I find myself with a headache today after working late into
    > the evening in indequate light - time I sorted the problem.
    >
    > What's the best solution to general overhead lighting (up to 6m
    > ceilings) for detailed work? And for closer illumination?
    >
    > Assume I'm willing to spend a bit and go to specialist suppliers rather
    > then just what's available in the diy sheds.


    If you have machinery having moving parts, i.e. Lathe, pillar drill,etc
    beware of the stroboscopic effect that some fluorescant lights can produce,
    in certain circumstances they can make a rotating chuck appear stationary.
    Donwill
     
    Donwill, Apr 15, 2006
    #6
  7. Tim Lamb Guest

    In message <>, Donwill
    <> writes

    >> What's the best solution to general overhead lighting (up to 6m
    >> ceilings) for detailed work? And for closer illumination?
    >>
    >> Assume I'm willing to spend a bit and go to specialist suppliers rather
    >> then just what's available in the diy sheds.

    >
    >If you have machinery having moving parts, i.e. Lathe, pillar drill,etc
    >beware of the stroboscopic effect that some fluorescant lights can produce,
    >in certain circumstances they can make a rotating chuck appear stationary.


    I made a low bid at an auction and acquired the entire lighting system
    installed at a local authority joinery workshop.

    Buoyed up by the *saving* I set off with truck, ladders and assistant
    and fetched most of it home. Lovely looking twin 5', prismatic
    diffusers, plastic bodies and....high frequency chokes!

    Out of ten or so only 4 function. I contacted the manufacturer of the
    electronic controls and purchased some more gear. In the background I
    overheard someone say *they were the ones with the earth problem*. What
    they didn't say was that the new version involved a total rewire.

    Now, any electronic whiz persons out there needing high performance
    lighting for rotating machinery areas and having time on their hands?
    Free to good home:)

    regards
    --
    Tim Lamb
     
    Tim Lamb, Apr 15, 2006
    #7
  8. Peter Lynch Guest

    On 2006-04-15, The3rd Earl Of Derby <> wrote:
    > wrote:
    >> Yet again I find myself with a headache today after working late into
    >> the evening in indequate light - time I sorted the problem.
    >>
    >> What's the best solution to general overhead lighting (up to 6m
    >> ceilings) for detailed work? And for closer illumination?
    >>
    >> Assume I'm willing to spend a bit and go to specialist suppliers
    >> rather then just what's available in the diy sheds.

    >
    > Another clear post lacking information ie what are you working on/with?
    >
    > You know,a watchmaker would use an illuminated magnifier
    > A dentist would use a close up fresnalled halogen.
    >

    You don't need detailed information to get the basics right:

    - make sure you have sufficient illumination. If your ceilings
    are 6m up, do you really need the lights up there? Would it
    be better to have them suspended and at a more accessible height
    such as 2.4m (assuming you don't need that much clearance)

    - reduce flicker. A lot of people get headaches induced by
    seemingly imperceptible flicker in their lights (or computer
    screens)

    - as you are doing detailed work, try an illuminated magnifier
    if you haven't already - as suggested by another poster. A
    loupe may be another alternative.

    - use *lots* of light. Daylight is bright (duh!) and mostly we
    use far less illumination in our houses/workshops than we
    would have outdoors

    - finally: headaches may be due to poor posture over your work-
    piece, impending old-age :) changes your eyes ability to
    focus, or maybe your workshop accumulates fumes from solvents,
    paints, next-door's car exhaust etc.

    - really finally: sometimes we get so absorbd in our passtimes
    that we fail to notice time passing. Make sure you take
    adequate breaks.

    Pete

    --
    ...........................................................................
    .. never trust a man who, when left alone ...... Pete Lynch .
    .. in a room with a tea cosy ...... Marlow, England .
    .. doesn't try it on (Billy Connolly) .....................................
     
    Peter Lynch, Apr 15, 2006
    #8
  9. Andy Dingley Guest

    On 14 Apr 2006 16:59:52 -0700, wrote:

    >What's the best solution to general overhead lighting (up to 6m
    >ceilings) for detailed work? And for closer illumination?


    Big long fluorescents, with modern ballasts. Get decent ones, but don't
    be over-sold cat 2 anti-glare luminaires, unless you really do need
    them.

    If you're going to be dusty, get a fitting that's reasonably dust proof
    or easily cleaned.

    Then add some task lighting by the bench, as needed. Simple
    incandescent bulb on a couple of bendy arms is good, or a magnifier and
    a ring fluorescent (about 50 quid if you shop around).

    Ikea have some tiny compact fluorescents that replace the R40 style
    fitting - zig-zag tube in a flat plane. These are great in small machine
    lights.
     
    Andy Dingley, Apr 15, 2006
    #9
  10. John Rumm Guest

    wrote:

    > Yet again I find myself with a headache today after working late into
    > the evening in indequate light - time I sorted the problem.
    >
    > What's the best solution to general overhead lighting (up to 6m
    > ceilings) for detailed work? And for closer illumination?


    For general lighting a pair of 36W 5' tubes every four or five feet (on
    a eight foot high ceiling - spacing can go up a bit on a taller one)
    will give good even illumination.

    Painting walls and ceiling etc a light colour will make a *big*
    difference to the quality of the light. It helps keep it mutidirectional
    and well diffused.

    Unless you are placing the lights very high up then make sure you use
    diffusers, if notheing else they will save a tube each time you wallop a
    light with a sheet of ply as you turn it round (DAMHIK).

    > Assume I'm willing to spend a bit and go to specialist suppliers rather
    > then just what's available in the diy sheds.


    You don't need anything that specialist, but go for high frequency
    ballasts to keep flicker down and prevent stroboscopic effects.


    --
    Cheers,

    John.

    /=================================================================\
    | Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
    |-----------------------------------------------------------------|
    | John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
    \=================================================================/
     
    John Rumm, Apr 15, 2006
    #10
  11. Guest Guest

    On 15 Apr,
    "Donwill" <popple @diddle .dot> wrote:

    > If you have machinery having moving parts, i.e. Lathe, pillar drill,etc
    > beware of the stroboscopic effect that some fluorescant lights can produce,
    > in certain circumstances they can make a rotating chuck appear stationary.


    You can get paired linear flourescents for that reason, they are lead and lag
    phased to give continuous light to reduce the strobiscopic effect. Most CFLs
    are HF ballasted and dont give a strobiscopic effect. Similarly electronic
    /balast/ (as opposed to starter) will give the same effect on linear flours.

    --
    B Thumbs
    Change lycos to yahoo to reply
     
    Guest, Apr 15, 2006
    #11
  12. Guest

    Ian Stirling wrote:
    > wrote:
    > > wrote:


    > >> Yet again I find myself with a headache today after working late into
    > >> the evening in indequate light - time I sorted the problem.
    > >>
    > >> What's the best solution to general overhead lighting (up to 6m
    > >> ceilings) for detailed work? And for closer illumination?
    > >>
    > >> Assume I'm willing to spend a bit and go to specialist suppliers rather
    > >> then just what's available in the diy sheds.

    > >
    > > Linear fluorescent. 2nd chioce, lots of CFLs. try to ensure access for
    > > changing bulbs tho.

    >
    > Lots of CFLs are maybe half as efficient for watts-light as linear ones.
    > (~60lm/W, compared with 105lm/W)
    > But, they are much cheaper.
    >
    > If a '36w' fixture + bulb costs 15 quid, and something producing the
    > same amount of light costs 2 quid, but uses twice the electricity,
    > it's going to take only a year to payback if you use it 8 hours/day.


    Where do you get your 105 lm/w figures from? I always thought
    triphosphor electronic ballasted 40-65 l/w cfls were an improvement on
    the old linear fluorescent, efficacy wise.

    If theres one type of light I would be in no hurry to use, its sodium.
    Yes its exceptionally efficient, but having briefly worked under HPS at
    2 locations, never again. Very low CRI makes vision a strain even at
    uncomfortably high illumination levels. The magnetic ballasts and no
    persistence of the tubes makes for heavy flicker. The end result is
    poor visibility, strain and headache. Also warm up is very slow,
    starting from 0% output and staying there for a while.

    You could use very low power sodium as an addition to cool fl, but I
    would far rather have sensible CRI myself, and not have to wait 9
    minutes for the light.

    If youre using rotating machinery, linear fls should use either
    electronic ballasts or be pair fittings with lead-lag ballasts. These
    ballasts are simple to make yourself from a standard magnetic ballast.

    Diffusers are no real use visually, but do give some amount of impact
    protection. Shelf or trough fitting is best if youve got a white
    ceiling. The usual bare tube down at 8' system is poor practice, and
    diffusers dont improve it much.


    NT
     
    , Apr 15, 2006
    #12
  13. Ian Stirling Guest

    wrote:
    > Ian Stirling wrote:
    >> wrote:
    >> > wrote:

    >
    >> >> Yet again I find myself with a headache today after working late into
    >> >> the evening in indequate light - time I sorted the problem.
    >> >>
    >> >> What's the best solution to general overhead lighting (up to 6m
    >> >> ceilings) for detailed work? And for closer illumination?
    >> >>
    >> >> Assume I'm willing to spend a bit and go to specialist suppliers rather
    >> >> then just what's available in the diy sheds.
    >> >
    >> > Linear fluorescent. 2nd chioce, lots of CFLs. try to ensure access for
    >> > changing bulbs tho.

    >>
    >> Lots of CFLs are maybe half as efficient for watts-light as linear ones.
    >> (~60lm/W, compared with 105lm/W)
    >> But, they are much cheaper.
    >>
    >> If a '36w' fixture + bulb costs 15 quid, and something producing the
    >> same amount of light costs 2 quid, but uses twice the electricity,
    >> it's going to take only a year to payback if you use it 8 hours/day.

    >
    > Where do you get your 105 lm/w figures from? I always thought
    > triphosphor electronic ballasted 40-65 l/w cfls were an improvement on
    > the old linear fluorescent, efficacy wise.


    Maybe - I don't have those to hand.

    Personally, I find HPS, with CFL spot lighting not too bad.

    Browse http://www.rswww.com/

    Many tubes producing 5200lm/58W is about 90lm/W.
    There are tubes >100lm/W
     
    Ian Stirling, Apr 15, 2006
    #13
  14. dennis@home Guest

    <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > Yet again I find myself with a headache today after working late into
    > the evening in indequate light - time I sorted the problem.
    >
    > What's the best solution to general overhead lighting (up to 6m
    > ceilings) for detailed work? And for closer illumination?
    >
    > Assume I'm willing to spend a bit and go to specialist suppliers rather
    > then just what's available in the diy sheds.
    >


    Fluorescent strip lights for general illumination and tungsten lights for
    each machine.
    Tungsten doesn't create strobe effects so moving machinery is safer.

    If you have three phase then wire the strips into alternate phases to reduce
    flicker.
    If its a big shop you might want some industrial metal halide lamps rather
    than strips.
     
    dennis@home, Apr 15, 2006
    #14
  15. dennis@home Guest

    <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > Yet again I find myself with a headache today after working late into
    > the evening in indequate light - time I sorted the problem.
    >
    > What's the best solution to general overhead lighting (up to 6m
    > ceilings) for detailed work? And for closer illumination?
    >
    > Assume I'm willing to spend a bit and go to specialist suppliers rather
    > then just what's available in the diy sheds.
    >
     
    dennis@home, Apr 15, 2006
    #15
  16. dennis@home Guest

    "Andy Hall" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > On Sat, 15 Apr 2006 17:07:53 GMT, "dennis@home"
    > <-ass.net> wrote:
    >
    >>
    >><> wrote in message
    >>news:...
    >>> Yet again I find myself with a headache today after working late into
    >>> the evening in indequate light - time I sorted the problem.
    >>>
    >>> What's the best solution to general overhead lighting (up to 6m
    >>> ceilings) for detailed work? And for closer illumination?
    >>>
    >>> Assume I'm willing to spend a bit and go to specialist suppliers rather
    >>> then just what's available in the diy sheds.
    >>>

    >>
    >>Fluorescent strip lights for general illumination and tungsten lights for
    >>each machine.
    >>Tungsten doesn't create strobe effects so moving machinery is safer.

    >
    > Neither do fluorsecent strip lights as long as they have electronic
    > ballasts.


    They do, but the strobe is at a higher frequency and with less difference
    between the highs and lows (lamps tend to use phosphors that don't have much
    persistence)
    This may or may not cause machines to appear stationary depending on the
    rpm.
    Some woodworking machines run at several thousand RPM so may well appear
    stationary even with electronic ballasts.
    I would use tungsten lights and be safe.
     
    dennis@home, Apr 15, 2006
    #16
  17. Andy Dingley Guest

    On Sat, 15 Apr 2006 22:03:18 GMT, "dennis@home"
    <-ass.net> wrote:

    >I would use tungsten lights and be safe.


    Do you still wear gloves on a piece of elastic threaded through the
    sleeves of your anorak ?
     
    Andy Dingley, Apr 15, 2006
    #17
  18. Guest

    Ian Stirling wrote:
    > wrote:
    > > Ian Stirling wrote:
    > >> wrote:
    > >> > wrote:


    > >> >> Yet again I find myself with a headache today after working late into
    > >> >> the evening in indequate light - time I sorted the problem.
    > >> >>
    > >> >> What's the best solution to general overhead lighting (up to 6m
    > >> >> ceilings) for detailed work? And for closer illumination?
    > >> >>
    > >> >> Assume I'm willing to spend a bit and go to specialist suppliers rather
    > >> >> then just what's available in the diy sheds.
    > >> >
    > >> > Linear fluorescent. 2nd chioce, lots of CFLs. try to ensure access for
    > >> > changing bulbs tho.
    > >>
    > >> Lots of CFLs are maybe half as efficient for watts-light as linear ones.
    > >> (~60lm/W, compared with 105lm/W)
    > >> But, they are much cheaper.
    > >>
    > >> If a '36w' fixture + bulb costs 15 quid, and something producing the
    > >> same amount of light costs 2 quid, but uses twice the electricity,
    > >> it's going to take only a year to payback if you use it 8 hours/day.

    > >
    > > Where do you get your 105 lm/w figures from? I always thought
    > > triphosphor electronic ballasted 40-65 l/w cfls were an improvement on
    > > the old linear fluorescent, efficacy wise.

    >
    > Maybe - I don't have those to hand.
    >
    > Personally, I find HPS, with CFL spot lighting not too bad.
    >
    > Browse http://www.rswww.com/
    >
    > Many tubes producing 5200lm/58W is about 90lm/W.
    > There are tubes >100lm/W


    Well, I guess youre right. Fl tubes had crept up to 100lm/w in 2000,
    with LPS at 200 lm/w and hps 140 lm/w


    NT
     
    , Apr 16, 2006
    #18
  19. dennis@home Guest

    "Ian Stirling" <> wrote in message
    news:44416e9c$0$2537$...

    > Err. No.
    > All (recent) electronic ballasts use frequencies over the audible range.
    > One I just had my scope on used 60Khz, and that's about typical.
    > Leading to 120Khz flicker.
    > If you are running woodworking machines at 7 million RPM, can you please
    > post first, so we can duck?


    You are assuming that the rotating part doesn't have a pattern on it.

    The speed the strobe runs at is not going to stop the effect.
    It will only alter the way it looks.

    What would save you if you were running the tube at 60kHz is the persistence
    of the phosphor which would eliminate the strobe effect entirely.

    I have never seen one that runs that high before.
     
    dennis@home, Apr 16, 2006
    #19
  20. Guest

    Had ordinary strip lights in my wood workshop for years with good
    visibility and absolutely no problem with flicker or anything else
    (except colour photos require filter - no prob with digital however).
    Diffused light is essential, tungsten or other small bulbs would be a
    problem, except for occasional use of large anglepoise type lamp for
    close up work.
    Handy to fix striplights on chains or similar, with flexes so that they
    can be re-positioned if necessary.

    cheers
    Jacob
     
    , Apr 16, 2006
    #20
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